Jim0987 #8 - A bit clearer on the rebuild

[Vanilla]

Jim

stop trying to wriggle. It's spew: mainly incoherent rambling blaming junk. None of it is really "explanation".


answers from Vanilla

1. No, even if every single word of criticism were true. W is still not accepting any responsibility for herself. At all, none. You are DBing just fine, making changes for Jim. Still not enough STFU and too much persuit for me. Some of this putting her R with her children as your responsibility is just unpleasant. These statements are contradicting each other and much of it is clearly lies.

2. I agree with Wonka, this WAW needs a wake up call. But I leave if that should be D to wiser minds, remember divorce is a two stage process in the UK. Plus Little Prima Princess has made contradictory statements about D. You need L and fast.

A wake up reality check in is likely to be healthy for your future R.

[edz]

Hi Jim

If you feel you want to reconcile then you do, don't beat yourself up about it. I really don't want to go back to the way w s and I were before bd, in our own ways we were all miserable but no one wanted to press the detonate button till bd. I look upon the options as all going forward, of course the ideal would be w and I working out what we need to do to move forward together but under no circumstances going back.

As to your questions, does it make any difference? Well yes and no. As I said your w probably meant it all but it doesn't mean she will tomorrow, next week, next month. Right now it seems to me from the info you've relayed that the absolutely best thing is for you both to have your own space. I understand your worries on what w will do when not there but right now I think the advantages of detaching will be legion.

Its not an easy thing to do and I'm still tackling it at times but being in"my space" has saved my sanity.

I'd say you really will need to drop artificial deadlines and endings though. This was what gave me hell in September with birthdays and Christmas looming I got into a constant panic and over analysed everything w said, texted etc. Once id moved I was too busy spring the place out to obsess and then one day when mil pushed my buttons one more time something changed.

Ill leave your question for wonka alone as I truly don't have the experience to answer that one right now. I can only answer most questions from my experience or feelings and right now I can say I'm sometimes lonely, I realised this situation doesn't mean losing s in fact its probably saved my future with him but I still want w to rejoin me so why wouldn't you want your w back if you still care?

If my w ultimately doesn't want to go forward I know I'll be hurt and I'll mourn but I feel more than ever I will make every effort to be happy and find someone to share my future with. Time will tell but I won't allow the same loneliness in a relationship ever again as in a lot of ways that was much, much worse.

[Wonka]

Vanilla,

How does a two-stage D work in the UK? I'd like to learn a bit more about the process.

[edz]

answers from Vanilla

1. No, even if every single word of criticism were true. W is still not accepting any responsibility for herself. At all, none. You are DBing just fine, making changes for Jim. Still not enough STFU and too much per suit. Some of this putting her R with her children as your responsibility is just unpleasant. These statements are contradicting each other and much of it is clearly lies.

Much more concise than I could muster vanilla :-)

Just to reenforce that my w has told me all the faults I had but when after counselling I simplysat down with her one morning waiting to pick up s and said all I'd needed was her to hold my hand from time to time and not always want to push me away she teared up. She's still to admit anything was her responsibility. I think a lot is in the script and, as I've said before, when we deviate its when we get radio silence or we get the barrage of what we "should" have done or the millions of reasons its our fault but never why they didn't address it at the time.

[Vanilla]

Wonka

A divorce is split into two stages at the moment. Decree Nisi and then Absolute.

https://www.gov.uk/divorce/overview

An objection can be made by either party, a child or the courts between the two stages. I sometimes deal with the financial side of UK divorce and have certainly petitioned for a dependant when there is failure to consider an effect for a dependant.

One can also apply for legal separation
https://www.gov.uk/legal-separation

Hope this helps
Vanilla

[jim0987]

Vanilla,

Not sure where you see the wriggling. could you elaborate.

I do agree with everything she has accused me of and some it was awful. there are bits of my behaviour i'm ashamed of but i'm learning from that which is all i can do. I also see the things she was/wasnt doing. for example it wasnt fun, but she has at least equal responsibility for that.


Edz,

I suspect you a correct about her moving out, it just feels very final and is when this really impacts on the kids. plus my interaction with W will drop to 3 occassions every 2 weeks (handovers and swimming). I will miss her


Wonka,

in the UK we have a two stage process, the first is the decree nisi which basically one person petitions for a divorce, there is then a 6 week waiting period and time to get consent orders in place before the issue of a decree absolute (the actual final divorce). the decree absolute wont be issued while there are outstanding issues

also in the UK you have to wait 2 years of seperation for a no fault divorce, prior to that it has to be a fault divorce. in my case the options are either adultery or unreasonable behaviour

my solicitor has recommended that adultery is more risky if she wont admit it but that i would be well within my rights to say that her behaviour has been unreasonable in that it has led me to believe that she has committed adultery

does that make sense?

[Wonka]

Thanks Jim and Vanilla.

Jim, where do you currently stand with the separation legally? Meaning, are you and W officially separated? How long has this been going on?

The reason for suggesting to file for D is to protect yourself financially. I do worry that W is taking you for a ride that is harmful to you. As you know by now, I am not for advocating in filing for a D unless it is an ABSOLUTELY necessary step. In your case, I think it has reached the threshold.

You must look out for #1 which is you. No one else is doing that.

[Vanilla]

The wriggling is yours Jim.

Jim here is one of your early posts to me. A very good 2x4. I recollect having had a great deal of acceptance of my "faults" in my M and its demise. I felt guilty wanted to rectify and accepted the spew (contempt: I called it then) and did not want to repeat my errors (relapse). I will give you the link to my faults if needed but some overlap with yours and yes there was validity.

Here is what a very wise DBer posted to me, I return it to you with thanks, it changed my thought process.

I think I have a better understanding now and that must be really hard for you. Guilt is a big deal but accepting contempt isn't going to help you deal with that guilt, I'd question if it helps in the short term

I've felt guilty about a range of things and as a result I've caved and not had boundaries (many other reasons as well but stick with simplicity for the moment) all that happened is that I made it OK to be treated poorly - did I feel better? Not even slightly, it made me get more snarky and resentful.

Boundaries are to protect you. Letting someone else violate them isn't going to help with guilt - its just going to hurt in different ways. Making meaningful changes to you, banishing the screaming banshee, that's the stuff that will help.

Can you think of a way to tackle the fear on relapsing. If you worry about it you make it more likely.

Kindly

Vanilla

[edz]

Hi Jim

You will miss her no question but, again from what you've said, is that worse than her being so near yet so apart from you? It was bad enough being surrounded by our "stuff" had she been there but not there I don't know how I would not crack and start pursuing. This is something you, vanilla and all the other dbers doing in house sep have my utmost respect for!

Please try to stop beating yourself. Yes, recognise any problems you brought, identify the faults, accept you did what you did or didn't do what you didn't but don't accept all the blame there are 2 people in a marriage so no one person can normally be responsible for its failure (except in cases of abuse). Learn about yourself, own those problems and make the changes to resolve those part of who you are for your sake not for w.

As I said before and this is important, easy to say and bl00dy difficult to do but you need to stop seeing endings and deadlines for your own sake.

If you absolutely have to have a line in the sand make it a reasonable one. I've said purely to myself - and do keep it to yourself its not for w as it would become an ultimatum - that June is my change point. by then its been a year, either w wants to make efforts to reconcile (I'm not saying reconciled just committing to it) wants to officially separate/move toward divorce or something else we've discussed. If none of these has happened I'll then start to reconsider with a councillor what comes next and if I need to take control for my future.

I would also say you and w will always be somewhat linked by the kids regardless if not as a couple and you don't feel friendship is appropriate (I covered this in my thread) then as coparenting.

Anyway you're not there yet and, as I said, its only over when you both decide it is. If w goes off but you want tokeep dbing then its not finally over, this is the mindset I've had to cram into my noggin.

Keep going mate, keep posting...

[jim0987]

Wonka,

there isnt a legal seperation as such as we are still in the same house although you could (and she will) argue the 2 year clock started ticking when she retained a solicitor.

I expect her to file citing my unreasonable behaviour and my solicitor has said i can not agree but also not contest and that this ultimately doesnt make any difference elsewhere in proceedings

although financial consent orders and custody agreements need to be resolved before the decree absolute they are not part of the divorce process. I drafted an agreement several months ago covering this stuff (which she sought to change as of 22nd december).

from my perspective I have said to W and my solicitor that i cannot give her any money for the equity in the house unless there is an agreement that that represents the totality of my financial commitment and waves any future claims. If this can only be acheived through the divorce process so be it as i will not expose myself financial any more than i already am.

my W sees this as me 'trying to pull the wool out from under her' hence her threat to move out on the 20th and take the kids to hampshire (anytime during this process she feels i'm standing ground she threatens solicitors actions and taking the kids from me)

As for the divorce itself it seems like the only issue in me accepting the divorce is my fault is an ego thing, where as pushing it the other way risks all kinds of spew and destructive behaviour. My ego can take it and so i wasnt planning on filing

it might be we have to go through the final divorce as the only way to conclude the financial aspects which really are the only bits that matter (my rights to the kids are protected unless she starts calling the police and making stuff up)