Happy holidays everyone! I hope you all find peace and happiness this holiday season. I'm feeling so grateful for everything in my life and lucky to have amazing family and friends, including you lovely anonymous people on this forum.
I met up with the WAH and I have an update of sorts.
Things have taken a turn for the worse I'd say. The good news is that I am managing to conduct myself mostly with calm dignity. The bad news is that he is spiraling into the darkness.
We agreed to meet for a quick meal and then go a small party with some new friends of his from work that I know but not very well. (I was very surprised that he invited me to this considering he was/is sleeping with 1-2 of his coworkers who were not there at the party of course) We ran late and went directly to the party. I'm not sure how it happened but we ended up not speaking at all really for the five hours we were there.
If you follow my story you know that he has been the one who wanted to engage with me, texting me, calling me, asking me to meet. So I found it odd that when I finally agreed to do so he spent the whole time not engaged with me at all.
There was a lot of heavy drinking at the party. Later I found out that he and some other coworkers were also using drugs. This was NOT normal behavior for my H before, not at all. His coworkers are all unable to maintain their relationships, living the party lifestyle and egging each other on to have sex with as many people as possible including other coworkers. They spend all their free time together and drink a lot. It's like being in high school or a fraternity house.
Toward the end of the party he approached me and began complaining about how I haven't been talking with him for weeks and even showed me his phone records to illustrate how I didn't answer his calls and messages. I simply said I had been very busy and thought he had his own life, I shrugged it off. There really was no appropriate reply at the moment - at a party with a bunch of drunk and drugged out people...?
We left the party together and talked for a little while outside before heading home. He complained again about me not speaking with him for weeks. Then he asked "Are you seeing someone? Are you in a relationship?" and I calmly replied "why do you ask? are you seeing someone?" He said "Definitely not." To which I replied that he was dating a lot of women and he said "I'm trying to figure myself out." I'm not sure what that means and I didn't think to ask. Again he asked me if I was seeing someone and said "I asked because I really want to know if you are dating someone." I answered that I am not seeing anyone special. That was the end of the conversation.
He made not one move to touch me all evening. He did not greet me hello or goodbye. I definitely did not try to touch him. I could not look him in the eye, I could barely look at him at all. It made me sick and repulsed to look at him. He looks absolutely terrible. He has lost a lot of weight, isn't shaving or cutting his hair. His clothes hang off of him. At the same time I honestly don't know if he truly looks horrible or if I am just seeing the demons inside him, if that makes any sense. Maybe he looks just fine but I am seeing a person I don't recognize.
When I went home I thanked my lucky stars that I was not him and that I was not with him. I silently thanked him for leaving me so that I could grow better, while he is headed into a downward slide. I felt completely done with him and relieved to not be in a relationship with this creature any more.
The words that played over and over in my mind throughout the whole evening were 'pathetic' and 'disgusting'. The whole thing was just horrible to observe but I didn't feel angry or upset, just disgusted.
The next morning I woke happy to be alone, happy to be me, happy to be *mostly* sane and stable.
But then the next days my thoughts revolve around him. They bounce from shock at what has become of him, worry about his life getting even worse, worry about it getting better if he falls in love with one of his OWs, sadness for the past, missing the old H... all over the map. As the days pass the pathetic image of him I saw at the party is being replaced with the happy sweet H I knew for years.
Of course he has been contacting me since then just being chatty. While I was ignoring him for weeks and that was working pretty well for me, now I actually feel quite guilty to not respond. I know that is silly but he is really in a bad place. Don't worry, I'm not making excuses, just explaining how I feel. I know NC is much better for me and probably for him as well.
The turn in the situation is frightening to me. My H is gone. Maybe dead! Maybe just lost. I don't know.
I'm not really sure what I will do next. Maybe just NC, maybe have a talk with him about going our separate ways.
I feel quite worried about him and almost think I should remain available in some way as a friendly observer. But he does have family and I suppose they can do the watching if I drop the rope.
Friends, thank you for reading. I am sure if you have words of wisdom for me they revolve around running as far and fast as I can. I'm pretty sure that is my instinct but I also have some elements of kind caring and morbid curiosity there too.
Big hugs, Lisa
Me: 34 H: 30 M: 4 years BD: 6/15/14 He moved out 6/30/14 OW1: EA then PA after BD Now he's dating multiple OWs I'm over it and moving on.
It's funny when our own "fog" gets lifted a bit, too, right? Kind of empowering.
So... I want to ask you if you are really all that shocked at his behavior? You've stopped acting like you are his Plan B... and he's kind of freaking out about that!
But-- if he was really ready to discuss your R with you, the appropriate place is not at a party where he's drinking and doing drugs while ignoring you the whole night. Right? He'd have to work a whole lot harder to get Lisa(Not Plan)B back, right?!
He's feeling the loss of you, he's imagining you with other men and not happy about it. In DB world, these are good things!
IMO, your next move is to just keep on keeping on doing what you are doing. If you go soft and pursue or even just be more available... what message do you think that would send him? Does he really seem ready or *able* to work on a R with you right now?
I know I'm being totally blunt, so I hope you don't take this post in a mean-spirited way. I think you are doing SO great, and I am rooting for you!!
Oh Lisa. That sounds really terrible. What a difficult situation.
I think the wise folk here would say that these are his problems and his to solve. It must be so hard though to see a loved one spiralling like that. I used to worry about my H when he was out but over time just came to realise that he has to take care of himself. That's what he's learning to do now and I'm learning to trust that he can do it.
I wonder if it would be ok to state that you are concerned for him but that you don't want anything to do with him if this is what he wants from his life? Then continue to go NC?
At the end of the day you gotta protect you and it sounds like you don't want to be a part of that scene (I wouldn't either). Whether or not you want the M tow work out in the end, I think NC is good for you and for your situation. Leave him be and let him work through this.
Last edited by ganb8te; 12/27/1401:55 AM.
H 37 Me 36 Together 15 years Married 5 years No kids BD Apr 2014 H moved out 2 Jun 2014
^^^ Aha! That is the very tactful way of saying what I was thinking.
Originally Posted By: ganb8te
I wonder if it would be ok to state that you are concerned for him but that you don't want anything to do with him if this is what he wants from his life? Then continue to go NC?
LisaB - You were right when you mentioned how our WAS are similar, in that they adopted the party lifestyle when they left us. Yours seem to be much deeper into it tough and that is somewhat worrying. It's hard not to feel responsible for someone who was so close to us, right? Perhaps you felt responsible for him, in the M? I note that you expect him to get better if he gets into an R with an OW -- again the pattern of someone else saving him.
My experience is that I've worked hard over 9.5 years to help my WAW become more mature, or at least more comfortable in a life that doesn't involve moving country every six months, changing friends every 3 months, not maintaining a healthy love relationship, earning enough money to cover her expenses, etc. I felt responsible for her learning. Deep down, she never really changed. Now I realize that it never came from inside of her, so she never really learned it. She thinks it's my view of life, rather than the simple reality. So she's with young adults who don't have kids, until they do, along with a mortgage, a car, in-laws, etc. and become more settled, like we were since we're 5-10 years ahead of them (the older ones at her work place have kids too...). Try to apply this principle to your sitch.
I'm actually not surprised you guys didn't talk together at the party. First, your conversations are awkward. Also, he's surrounded by new people, which is his primary target these days. Finally, you've been avoiding him for a while. I'm mostly surprised he invited you... and that you accepted!
I don't know if I would tell you to run away, but I can observe that you're inching away from him every week. It seems good for you. You're lucky not to have kids with him. He doesn't look like a catch, from here. Your life is very much ahead of you and apparently it wouldn't be so hard for you to meet a better man than him. But in my experience, this is the kind of idea that only you can develop on your own, over time.
Oh and I know that you're concerned but you wouldn't be abandoning him: he left you already. He chose to be this way and he needs to face the consequences, not you, especially given the toll it takes on you. When I told my IC that I was worried about my W, he said "Why aren't you angry at her?" I often think about it.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Hello Lisa. I agree with Claire who has given me so much brutal and true advice. You are successfully showing detachment and his poor performance did not phase you in his presence. I have been able to do this as well a few times too... just not as well as you.
But then the guilt, right? Maybe they needs us and just aren't saying it the right way or enough. They look terrible... how can they want what they are reaching for looking and acting this way? They seem crazy and they keep contacting us and it's torture. My W turns into a screaming cursing demon when I don't answer her calls while she keeps contacting me like she's done nothing to hurtful. my W having an A demands I should speak with her and treat her with compassion. I know.
I like to believe like Claire says that our WAS feel the loss of us. I think in your case that is very true and you are doing great as Claire says. Just stay detached despite your urge to reach for him and save him and hope your loving H returns. He's clearly in a bad space. My W drinks and spews and cries and cruses me and skips Christmas and birthday with our son and lies and keep lying. There's nothing for us to do except what you're doing so well. Your H invited you to a party and you went and you were the lighthouse. Keep it up.
I want to have your strength in front of my W. Right now I want to strangle her if I'm near her and it shows vividly. You are a better person than that and an inspiration to me and the rest of us. Thank you for sharing and I hope your H starts acting like you deserve him to act.
Me: 44 W: 45 S: 11 Married: 15 Together: 18 BD: 9/29/2014 OM discovered: 10/16/2014 I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Hi friends! Thank you so much for reading my long tale. And thank you so much for the words of feedback and support.
Of course I agree 100% with all of you. Claire I did not take your words to be mean-spirited at all! In fact I am thinking the exact same thing you stated.
In a way I was glad to see the really yucky side of him because on past occasions when we have met alone he has been strange but more like his normal self. I got a glimpse of what is really going on with him and that did shock me a bit.
Ganb8te I think I will use your line if I need to. I like it! Thank you for always being there to read my sagas.
Mozza your words are very insightful. Indeed I have a past pattern of not exactly saving H but being his biggest cheerleader, building his confidence and encouraging him on all levels. In fact at BD I thought that it was my own fault for being too supportive of him and creating a monster ego. Silly. But you have some very smart insight there. Indeed, I feel he is searching for love that will save him from loneliness and give his life meaning. I think if he finds that love he will 'change back' to the sweet and wonderful guy. I guess that was what I meant, and it hurts me to consider it. Good insight though on the saving... And I agree with what you said. He is no catch now and I am lucky not to be involved with him. I am very angry with him but seeing him like this was worrisome and took away some of my anger.
Oh HP your situation is so difficult, thank you for taking the time to read mine. I agree with your assessment reflecting back to your own wife's behavior. It is easier to see when we look at someone else's story isn't it? I see your situation and I think wow, she is acting horribly but keeps contacting poor HP, he should just cut her off and let her swing in the wind. (complicated due to your son of course) But then in my own situation I feel that gray area where he is acting horribly but also being friendly and kind to me, just like your wife sometimes does with you. It makes it hard for me to be distant. You make a good point, thank you!
Thanks again my friends for reading and offering your wisdom. My goal is to continue to live my nice life and let him deal with his situation on his own. I will not reach out to him nor be there as his chatty buddy. I will consider whether to take a harder line and tell him not to contact me or simply be unavailable. I'll figure it out. I don't think he's hit the bottom yet but it is looking pretty close. For me the sky is the limit! I am feeling good about myself.
