Busting a Move - LisaB Ch6

[TLEE86]

Hey Lisa, sorry you're in this situation. I struggle with the exact same thing…

I don't usually contact WAH first, he contacts me. And lately he is very friendly, helpful and caring. If I reply with brief answers it doesn't really accomplish anything. We are still in contact and nothing changes. He just keeps texting me nearly every day and each day is a new challenge on how to respond briefly.

My WAW does the same thing- I barely initiate any contact but feel like I should respond back to her because IMO it is rude if you don't say anything back? I think BigMac brings up a good point when he says to wait and not respond immediately (I usually wait 30min) so it doesn't seem like we're just desperately waiting to hear from them

If you respond to his texts, he thinks you're friends and you run the risk of being put in "the friend's zone". He has no impetus to change his behavior, because he's calling the shots.

But, does frequent, light texting allow him to interact with you and realize you're changing/have changed?

This one…I have no idea what's the right answer, I plan to ask my DB coach tomorrow but I tend to lean towards the 2nd answer, that frequent/light texting allows my WAW to interact with me and I get to show what's changed. If anything else, I feel like in order to get my WAW to fall back in love with me, I need to continue contact with her? IMO, if I don't acknowledge what she has to say to me when she is clearly reaching out for communication between us, how can I get her to fall back in love?

I am definitely trying to take the "Mozza Approach" and "shine as much as I can." Do you worry at all that by not responding to his texts that he might just think, well she's obviously moved on or doesn't want to talk to me anymore so…I'll just go live my life without her? I ask because this is what I think about all the time if I stop replying to her…but sometimes I feel like replying back to her just enables her behavior. Has your H asked you why you aren't responding to him? I know my WAW would start calling and say "Hey why aren't you talking to me anymore." And I wouldn't know how to respond to that without giving her an ultimatum of lets work on the M if you want to keep talking or talk to me when you've figured it out. Thoughts?

[Mozza]

Ha, the "Mozza approach". But before it becomes a trend, note that Wonka is implying that this is getting me in the friend zone. We haven't finished the conversation though, so I'm not sure she's really getting there.

[LisaB]

Hi Ganb8te, Mozza and TLEE86, thanks so much for your thoughts and feedback.

Ganb8te, I really appreciate your advice! My problem with telling WAH that I won't tolerate the OWs is that in his mind, and I guess in mine too even, we are not together. So in a way it is a moot point to say "I don't want to talk to you bc you are dating". I mean, I can say it but to him it would probably sound more like "I am so hurt and upset by you moving on that I can't talk to you" rather than a boundary per se.

I feel like I cannot state a boundary about OWs at this point unless my WAH says he wants to have sex, see me romantically or some other sign of a relationship beyond friendship. He has not said anything of the sort.

"I can't be friends because you are dating" is true, but it makes me sound weak rather than strong I think. If you broke it off with someone and 5 months later they tell you that you can't see other people... would you think they are crazy? What do you think?

Having said all this - well, I haven't communicated with him at all in almost 2 weeks anyway. This is definitely a record! I guess I have sent my message without talking - he hasn't tried to communicate with me in 7 days, the longest ever since we met!

I'm not sure it is the right DB move. Not at all. But he made his choice, he wanted to go see what was out there and find out if he could do better. In a way I even get it. Maybe he will find what he is looking for, maybe not. Maybe he will regret his decision, maybe not. But at the moment I don't want to be friendly while he is out looking around. I don't know if I have to tell him that, or just show him with my actions that I am not going to be waiting around. What do you think though? Is there something specific I could say if we talk again?

I have been reading the success story of reachingHigher. I relate in many ways to her situation, she had a WAH In MLC who went to find his freedom but came home when he realized it wasn't what he hoped. She was so incredibly patient with him. He didn't have OW but was definitely considering that option and basically dating without getting intimate. But she seemed to never ask questions or push about that, just let him have his freedom and find his way home to her. Our situations are quite different but I see the same lost confusion in my H as hers.

sometimes I feel like replying back to her just enables her behavior. Has your H asked you why you aren't responding to him? I know my WAW would start calling and say "Hey why aren't you talking to me anymore." And I wouldn't know how to respond to that without giving her an ultimatum of lets work on the M if you want to keep talking or talk to me when you've figured it out. Thoughts?

TLEE, I agree. I think replying to him and being friendly makes him feel I am still there. He feels the pain of not being a couple, but he still has hope that he could turn around and come home if his search for something better doesn't work out. And in the meantime he also has me to talk to and joke with - probably the part about me he likes the most.

He usually doesn't directly ask why I don't talk to him. He just says things like "are you angry at me" or "I feel like I don't know what is going on with you anymore" or "you seem so busy lately".

As you said Mozza the other danger of being communicative is the friendzone. I am not sure if I was sitting in the zone or not. I couldn't read him as far as his true intentions. I think my WAH is deeply confused though, almost to the point of insanity so not much he does makes logical sense. I try not to think about it.

Well friends, another long post. I'm feeling ok in general and I think the NC has been a good idea for my sanity if nothing else. I think part of that is I feel more in control. I stopped talking to him and yeah, he isn't talking to me either but I feel it was my choice. That lends me a certain feeling of power and control over this crap situation.

I hope you all had a nice weekend and I look forward to catching up on your threads.

Hugs, Lisa

[claire7]

You sound really strong, Lisa. You are a rockstar.

(P.S. If he asks, "Are you angry at me?" could you just answer, sweetly, "No." or "No, what makes you think that?" And when he says you seem so busy, smile, like "yeah, i am! Isn't that awesome?" Something like that...)

[TLEE86]

Lisa, IMO, I think you are spot on when you say that you can't tell your WAH that you won't tolerate him being with OW. My WAW said the same thing that in her mind we're not together anymore, as backwards as that sounds. So I definitely agree with your analogy..telling him he can't see OW just makes you sound crazy/controlling because right now, its all about HIS life and telling him what he can or can't do probably won't work. Then again, there seems to be some people who have actually had success setting in that boundary with their H/W so I don't know? It's all situation dependent and you know your H best. For me, my WAW will just blow it off as I'm trying to control her life…

There are multiple success stories like the one of reachingHigher. All seem to have the basic DB principles in common…be PATIENT, and don't question or pry about OW/OM because it does no good, just pushes them further to OW/OM. Let them find their own path, and usually the grass is not greener on the other side.

I think that's awesome that you're H is asking you those things. Because it makes him worry/wonder if he is losing you. I do wonder though that if he stops trying to communicate to you, if he is giving up. In their minds, we are already "the bad guy." If you were him, how long would you keep trying to communicate with someone who you left when they are making it clear that they don't want to talk to you? Isn't it one of the DB principles that we shouldn't ignore, be angry, or cold when they reach out to us? I think Claire hit the nail on the head and maybe a simple reply like "Yea it has been really busy lately, I did this this and THIS!" This keeps the contact open, and I think pushes him even further to wonder, ok what is Lisa doing without me and why is she having so much fun.

Idk, these are just my thoughts, I could be way off base. Sandi/25years, if you're out there, I'd like to use my phone a friend and get your opinion on this!

[gan]

So I definitely agree with your analogy..telling him he can't see OW just makes you sound crazy/controlling because right now, its all about HIS life and telling him what he can or can't do probably won't work.

I gotta get to bed…but there is a difference IMHO between saying H can't see OWs and H can't see YOU as long as there is OWs. It's about you drawing a line. He can figure out if he wants to cross it and be on your side of the line.

And as for the attitude that OWs are acceptable because you are not together…I've pondered the same thing. But I recall reading a vet coming down on someone about this (Wonka on Mozza? Apologies if that is way off). Pretty sure the lesson was that that attitude wasn't helping. See if you can find that thread.

Anyway, congrats on making it to 2 weeks! Especially great that you feel like that has helped you. I've been reflecting on my NC timelines, too. I'm managing longer than 2 weeks but definitely not 2-3 months like Nettles suggested.

I never have done a marathon.

[Mozza]

Thanks for the update, LisaB. I follow your sitch closely. It,s nice to see your conclusions from the success stories. I agree that it seems hang by a thread (or less) before it works out, much like a Hollywood ending. Also, it seems to take a lot of time, much more than LBS thought they'd have.

What my sitch has in common with yours, and you probably already know that, is that my W thinks of us as over. She's with a new BF, I'm old news, the father of her kids, the co-parent. Not a potential mate. So it's hard to know what boundaries I can enforce or even if she still sees me as Plan B, especially as she's in the romantic phase of her new R.

By the way, I posted an update in my thread on Wonka's views of the "wet noodle" approach. It seems like tough love is the way to go.

[LisaB]

Hi Ganb8te, I totally hear you. Saying "I won't be around if you have OW" is different than saying "OW is not acceptable". And I also read that conversation on Mozza's thread. Maybe I'm wrong but I just feel in my current situation I can't say anything about OWs except that I don't want to hear about it. He feels we are done, broken up and over. To him they are dates, girlfriends, whatever - not affairs. And no matter what logical reasons I have that it is cheating, he won't agree! I don't necessarily embrace the OW situation, but I do feel it is out of my hands to say anything about it. So for now I shut up. I think for sure if he tried to get romantic I could say no way while you have OWs. And I can take away my friendship to show him the effects of his choices.

This latest NC from me started when he was ill and called me for help. Then I discovered that the four OWs were also helping him. That made me crazy. So I guess my boundary could go something like this:

him: blah blah I miss you, why aren't we friends, etc
me: You made the choice to separate from (leave) me and date multiple women. I am not interested in being one of the many women in your life.
That's it, the end. What do you think? If you have any other ideas for what I could say I'd love to hear them!

The next step is when he contacts me again, if he ever does. That is when I will again have the same questions that you bring up, TLEE86. Right now I don't want to talk to him. I know he has multiple OWs and is still obsessed with OW1 and going to visit OW4 out of state next week. He needs to work through all this, and I don't want to be around being a buddy while he does. It's going to take some time.

My guess is that he is searching for that greener grass and will continue to do so for a while until he finds it or realizes it is not there! Either one could happen. So far he hasn't found it and the few things he has said make it seem that he is realizing he may not find better grass than mine, baby!

I also think he almost feels a compulsion to try what is out there. Like a kid in the candy store (or me in the shoe store), he finally has the freedom to test out this party lifestyle and the opportunity to sample a variety of women. For the first time in his life he has confidence and is popular with females. If he sees a pretty girl he can ask her out and she may sleep with him - wow!

After having his fun for a while he may realize that pretty girls and new girls are just like everyone else. They have problems, they have issues, they are irritating sometimes. Maybe the stress and drama isn't worth it. Maybe you just want to find someone who is kind, fun-loving, easy to get along with, likes the same things you do, is supportive.. oh wait...

To be honest, I may already be long gone by then. I am getting pretty tired of this nonsense.

Claire7 thanks so much for calling me a rockstar! YOU are the rockstar! And terrific tips for comebacks to "are you angry?" and "why are you so busy?" Great minds must think alike because those were exactly my comebacks!

Right now I am OK with NC, maybe when he gets back from his trip visiting OW4 he will contact me. But maybe not. Right now I think about him all the time but oddly I don't really miss him. I just feel hurt and angry and disappointed. Part of me wishes he would wake up and come back but part just wants to move on. In many ways I am happier without him.

Side note: I have been reading some of the success stories on here and thinking about a few friends of mine who have recently reunited after separations. Interesting that when it does work out and the couples do reunite they are so in love and happy and wanting to show it to the world just like a new love. What makes the WAS wake up and come back? It varies from hitting rock bottom to the LBS moving on. More than anything it just seems to take time.

Mozza thanks for checking in! Tough love seems the way to go for some of us. I always read your thread, very enlightening! Thanks for checking in with me too.

Hope everyone has a good week!
Hugs, Lisa

[Little]

Love you girl. Hang in there.

[paul19510]

Hi Lisa I think the OW/OM idea comes into play while you are living together and there's an active A and lying going on. Once they move out (especially for several months) and they stop being intimate with you and they go down the path to D, there's not much to argue about. They are living "as if" you are D and they are never coming home. IMHO.

Melissa had problems with her now XH denying that he
was dating and coming to her house to be intimate with her. That is a boundary worth enforcing. It hurt her.

My STBXW and I are on the path to D. she has stated that she will not stay M to me. She has been gone for 1 YR. we have not ML in 18 MOS. I found someone else. She did the same now. I can't control what she does. I wanted to be loved and appreciated. Only after she stated she was not coming home ever...and I dropped the rope, and I officially filed for D, did I consider dating someone.

I also told her that I was seeing someone when it became clear to me and my GF that we would dating regularly and that I might choose to have her meet my kids. I also told her BEFORE GF met my kids that it was going to happen.

I made sure STBXW met her and understood where I was at. W has now done the same. Again, lies and games are not good. Trying to play both intimate partners is not good. If they really tell you they're. Never coming home and they showno signs of changing that....what can we say?

That being said, its fair also that you would pull back and not be around much...they LEFT US. we are not really friends anymore. We just share the broken parts of the M (and kids) at the moment.