"It is really difficult to ask for anything out of these conversations about US since she continues to express her desire for a D and is not very open to talk about much else in respect to US."
How are you and I married to the same woman? This could be part of the problem.
From WAW this am, "I'm not interested in working on the M; I want to be your friend, not your wife."
Your W will be a very good mood, when she sees you, having just spent enjoyable time with OM. Or she may be pissed you are cutting into OM time. One thing we know we are not good at, is trying to figure out their moods. Be your "new" self. Don't be a babbling cool friend. If she asks something, tell her. But do not explain and do not offer more information.
That is what I'm concerned about, that she had such a great time with OM and she is continuing to spend more time with him today. She could also have had a bad to poor time with OM and it might not have been good at all, or somewhere in between.
I'm thinking I can't control any of that right now and I won't know and I won't ask because I'm confident in myself that I am a great person, interesting, and fun.
Being a babbling brooke is a huge 180 for me so I do need to talk a lot about myself and in detail. About what I've been doing, what my interests are, what is going on with my life, my family, my friends etc. This is what friends do, they talk and share about themselves. This is what she has said she wants, a friend, her best friend back. Mysterious was not working, she just felt ignored.
As her best friend, I will share all of these things with her. I will not necessarily share my deepest feelings and thoughts with her about us or her. Those things only my friends here get to hear.
My goal here is to have her leaving thinking, wow, it was really fun to see him. Maybe even more fun that what I have right now. Make myself more attractive to her than what she has just experienced.
BTW - As skittish as she is talking about OM openly, she will say stuff like I got back late last night so I'm trying to organize myself. She called me to confirm about tonight, when last week she said I'll just come over. Can't read too much into this, but she might feel safer talking about these things openly now and she might have wanted to test my reaction and her reaction to me today.
It is unfortunately, conscious or otherwise, a BIG test. They truely believe we cannot change and are waiting for us to revert to our "old" selves and not for them, but for us, WE cannot. W told me today, "You never changed that (a certain issue) and it will never change." I do I can and I will for me. But it must be consistent.
Hang in there. Do not read into anything. I am bad about that, but it does not benefit you.
Hey Seattle, this might be a bit late for your meeting but still reflective. Some of the things we've learned is to not dwell on the past and move forward. So, my advice to you is to not dwell on "why" she said she would see you tonight but "hooray" coz she did agree to see you tonight.
Could be a baby step; could be a break from OM. Maybe he is putting pressure on her?? Remember that the more the OP pressures them, the rosier we tend to look with all of our wonderful changes!
Quote: If I leave her with a good impression, I guess that is the main objective. Make her feel like she is crazy for leaving me.
I like this comment......
Good LUCK!! (although I know you won't need it since you're such a great person!) Tootles...........
I guess I'm doing a lot of posting today for a couple of reasons and I think I may also know why I'm so jovial.
First the humor I guess is for a couple of reasons.
1) I really feel like WAW has made up her mind and she is very inflexible and won't change it or even consider the thought of talking, or working on it to EVEN SEE if it is possible to change her position. I guess I have an opportunity to change her mind without her knowing through my actions that she does see and recognize. So although I am very sad, I also know I have nothing left to lose. I've already lost her. I guess my decision is do I still keep trying to draw her back?
2) I feel as if a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders. Not all of it, but a lot of it. I'm going to try to stop the crazymaking, the dwelling on OM, all of the other stuff that has been driving me crazy. I can't control any of that and have no influence on any of it. I am only going to focus on being positive and enjoying my life. The people I CHOOSE to spend time with and the ones that CHOOSE to spend time with me. I will make the best out of the relationships I have that appreciate me for me. My biggest challenge is to keep this same attitude with my WAW. Really kind of sick of being so good to someone that intentionally tries to shut me out and avoid me.
Reasons for the major posting today
1) Had another major R talk with WAW last night. Not positive words from her at all, but some positive signs in what she might REALLY be saying.
2) I'm being happy and positive since I'm really hurting inside so much but I'm so sick of crying I don't want to be in that place. So I'm not going to let myself be in purgatory, I'm too good of a person and I don't deserve it. I deserve to be happy so I'm going to make myself happy. Ok, I've got to quit crying now.
Trying to gather my thoughts about last night so I don't post one of those war and peace novels about the conversation of last night. Just the facts madam.
You realize that you achieved detachment, right? I'm right with you on your comment that you've done the crying and it hurts too much to keep doing that.
Well, I still do it from time to time myself, but it's not very often. Like you, I usually choose to find the humor in things--most of the time, I can summon a really good, gut busting laugh. The endorphins I release from them have to make a dent in my system... and I'm guessing you have found the value in it as well.
Paragraph #1 is a heart wrenching account, but I have to commend you on your conclusions. This was (in a much better way) what I was trying to say to Triple J as well. There are times when the only talking that can be understood is the one you're showing.
To answer your question earlier in your thread (I must have had my head up my butt in not responding), we went the MC route. Actually, I've never posted this, so here goes (hopefully you can see that I made a very calculated risk that might have gone awry):
Our mediator actually told us that, if we headed to court, the judge would order us to MC for awhile (see Briget's post in MLC as proof that this can happen). He gave Mr. W. 8 weeks to come up with a date to head into MC with me.
He hedged and hedged. Then his mother took ill. He debated on heading home to Montana. I found a way to talk him into heading up there for Mother's Day. He was really in a bad way then, so I also voluteered to call the mediator and tell him to put the date out until he returned home--this was an extra 2 week grace period.
But I told him that I would expect an answer from him immediately upon his return. He called me the day before the "deadline" and told me to make the MC appt.
Well, looking back I see how many things I did wrong in that one. I would play by a different playbook this year.
The fact is that we were in MC for 4 months. When our MC had to cancel an appt with him personally (we had moved into IC appts to work out resentment), Mr. W. conveniently put MC on the hook for not calling him back to reschedule.
I had seen that although he was attending with me, he wasn't really working.
Now if he walks away, he can tell himself that by showing up, he tried.
We both know the truth, however. And so do you.
I don't see the fat lady anywhere in this stadium, Seattle.
So you just keep preparing yourself for the game.... Do I see a winner in Spandex?
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Yes you are right, I think I have "arrived" at detachment. For the most part, as you said I will always have those feelings. I see it in her too, but she tries to run from them and chooses not to face them and thats how she chooses to make herself happy. As opposed to us DBers who choose to make ourselves happy AND face it AND be open to the possibility of love again. I like our take much more instead of running away.
I have also come to the conclusion that I used to assume that WAW is an alien and didn't know what she was doing. After talking with her it has become clear that she does know exactly what she is doing and that she is choosing to do it. What I mean by that is she said we have been seperated for 5 months now and she has created a whole new life for herself. It hurt so much for me to hear that, but also made me realize she KNOWS she is choosing this. I no longer hope she will just magically wake up from what I considered as "Alien".
I realized that she is choosing to run away from me, avoid me, and shut me out because she thinks that I will hurt her again if she allows me another chance and it is not worth the time and effort because she has immersed herself in this "new life" and doesn't have time for me. Her statement of Who knows, if we try again it may be WONDERFUL, but it also might NOT. I'm not willing to try again. Her eyes full of tears.
So to the MC question, I have offered it up to her as an option, it is now up to her to take it if she wishes. Going against their will as you pointed out is fruitless. Going for me is fruitless. Only her going for us and her and her with an open heart is the only option. You are right about the excuses, she even tried to use the I went once for you (only to drop the bomb on me in our very first MC together) as an I did what I could excuse.
I need to reasses what happened yesterday and try and post the pertinent facts.
As far as spandex, I know TJ is proud of his hourglass figure and his abs now and might actually look good in it. Haha. I'll wear it if he does, but I'm going to line the insides of the one he is wearing with ben gay before he puts it on! Then you and I can really watch his WWF moves!
BTW - I hate fat ladys who sing, stay away from me like the plague Nell Carter! Maybe I'm dating myself here. What was that sitcom she was on?
Seattle and UD..you two are on a roll today. The humor is just unbearable. I'll have to make a note so when I need a little lift to come back to today's postings to get a gut buster going ! LOL
Onto the topic at hand....Seattle, great that you have found your journey in this. Just want to give you encouragement that maybe one day WAS will be ready to talk. I thought my H would never talk and all I was doing was spinning my wheels and like we've talked about, those tread marks eventually start to hurt when you keep getting trompled! But, finally after 1 yr, I think I have seen the turtle poke his head out and start to question our sitch and what is really happening. That's not to say that we are in any way close to recovery but I feel positive about the things that have gone on thus far.
You probably know this but if your WAS is w/OM (I know you've said that) then she is not ready to talk coz her head is spinning w/other thoughts right now. She is busy covering up the guilt, pain, fear, etc... that exists with someone else. Don't fret over it. You are the person that she will always remember. And your journey here will teach you many things. We already know that you have become a better person for enduring this and learning how to change.
....some day she will know it too..... Hang in! (((((()))))) Tootles.........
I am trying to keep a good attitude for myself (not just so WAW loves me), sometimes it is very hard and I would be thrilled to help cheer you up anytime.
I know how long and hard your journey has been and I commend you for your patience and consistency. You are SO RIGHT about the tread marks. A MC friend I spoke to yesterday reminded me of the old rule, after you ask someone to do somthing 3 times, that is when they finally start considering it as an option. 1st is usually no way, thats absurd. 2nd is no way, it wouldn't work. 3rd finally is maybe that would work. WAS are of course longer in the process.
Great point on the OM. She is busy ruining her life. I'll fill you guys in on what she said later.
She is also SO BUSY with her new salon business she JUST DOESN'T have time for me. But I got a major breakthrough here as well, I'll fill you guys in later.
I just got a phone call from a sorority girl I was soliciting (business only) to come into WAW's salon to drum up more business. She is the social director for all parties, which means more girls. WAW let me run with this idea and I did the work for her. I did everything but give the facial or waxing or whatever. She just called my cell phone asking for directions because she is going in for her service right now.
This after our talk last night about how stressed she is and how badly she needs new clients. WAW also mentioned how she doesn't have enough energy or time in the day to do everything. I said I would love to help. She of course said she didn't want me overly involved in her business (cat hissing). So this timing is good, I hope it helps fill the love tank some more and she realizes I do a lot for her unconditionally. This appointment was set up long before last nights talk.
Note about her trip to Vancouver. I was worried she was going with OM. She was talking about it so much and we did this and that I broke down and asked who she went with. She went with GF from work! Woo hoo! She said last night she remembered what a fun time we had in Vancouver together the last time we were there. Another Woo hoo!
But she of course had to say she was reminded about a bar I went to too much there and it was feeding my substance abuse. I told her I'm sorry you were reminded of that. I have quit cold turkey. She seem to think that was a good thing, but later threw out a if you really did quit comment.
Just believe what I say already, I'm not doing all this as an act.
