HP, I know the holidays do a number on almost every single newbie and the WAS which is why you find the vets circling around the DB forums to offer extra support.
Back to the game plan and re-focus. Sounds like a plan, buddy.
WMB,
I wanted to circle back to you as you posted a comment:
Originally Posted By: wmwb123
I've seen exposure work to end affairs many times over the past several months. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. My personal research (following many threads on many different forums) suggested that exposure was more likely to achieve reconciliation. Was I wrong? Well there's no way to know now, is there? Just as there's no way to know if exposure would have worked when it wasn't tried.
All success stories whose Ms have been restored you read about here were/are achieved with zero exposure (or nearly zero). They have never considered exposure and worked extremely hard on themselves that re-attracted their wayward spouses. I like DB so much because it is the best EVER self-improvement program for it forces one to look inward and examine one's beliefs, values, patterns and attitudes.
Personally, I've experienced the most personal growth during the DB process and have witnessed many posters grow/evolve as well. EVERY SINGLE one of them is a success story regardless of the outcome of their sitches. Dang, I won the "Gold Star" award!!
I am sure you would agree with this sentiment, WMB.
I managed to get good sleep last night. Made sure with sleeping pills. Feeling better this morning. Will work on my business today.
W should be home shortly from her overnight she says she spent with a girlfriend. I see how looking for lies in what she says is very painful for me. It was very hard to see her lie smoothly when all this started and now I take this worse. Like, the other day she mentioned her period started again. I'm used to her telling me this from before... but now I immediately think she's lying to cover herself (she was absolute to me about no sex while on her period). Thinking that way... parsing everything she says... contributes to my very bad moods. I told her when this started... it's the lying that I allow to hurt me very badly. I just have to stop doing this. It can't matter to me what she says. I have to accept that she lies and not take it personally. Have things to do during the day to keep my mind active.
Is there anything else I can do to handle the lying better? Should I communicate to her that her lying is unacceptable to me? In one of her letters, she agreed her lying about OM is disrespectful and unacceptable (words she used) and then she moved herself to the couch (confirming all the bad things she's said about herself instead of trying to change). She does not act much like she has an issue with shame and confidence about her choices now. What is psychology of that and how difficult does it make my sitch?
Enough about her now. Time to shave my head... ice cold shower... face the day. Time for courage and good decisions. Just find ways to feel happy.
I can do this today.
Me: 44 W: 45 S: 11 Married: 15 Together: 18 BD: 9/29/2014 OM discovered: 10/16/2014 I left her behind: 12/14/2014
... W should be home shortly from her overnight she says she spent with a girlfriend. I see how looking for lies in what she says is very painful for me. It was very hard to see her lie smoothly when all this started and now I take this worse. Like, the other day she mentioned her period started again. I'm used to her telling me this from before... but now I immediately think she's lying to cover herself (she was absolute to me about no sex while on her period). Thinking that way... parsing everything she says... contributes to my very bad moods. I told her when this started... it's the lying that I allow to hurt me very badly. I just have to stop doing this. It can't matter to me what she says. I have to accept that she lies and not take it personally. Have things to do during the day to keep my mind active...
Is there anything else I can do to handle the lying better? Enough about her now. Time to shave my head... ice cold shower... face the day. Time for courage and good decisions. Just find ways to feel happy.
I can do this today.
Hi HPoirot,
My WAW also would tell me when her period arrives. I think it is odd, but when my W did this I would give her an arm waving celebration. "Yay, that's good news". I thought I was being funny. Then I started to keep track on my calendar, and it matched up. So who knows?
I guess my point is that maybe she is not lying on some of this. I know you have in the past dealt with your W lying. Why not act "as if" she is telling the truth about her overnight stay with a girlfriend? Your reaction should be the same either way, right?
You are doing good work by keeping the focus on yourself. Keep working on that.
I feel the same way when my WAW lies to me through her teeth. It pulls every string inside of me (and pushes every button).
What is the psychology of that? Check out Borderline Personality Disorder. There are lots of things in there that are out of your control. Including stopping a W who has lost her mind from lying about everything.
There is this sense of entitlement, that they are entitled to their own reality, their own rules, everything is justified under their new reality. It's scary when you start to dive deep into it.
Me: 35 Her: 33 D : 16 S : 9 Together: 14 years Married: 12 She left 4/14/2014 Separated: 5/25/2014 OM Confirmed 7/2014 She filed 8/7/2014 I Filed 10/21/2014 Divorce final 2/12/2015
We have a glass window in our front door so I can see the street. I figured wife would just show up at the front like she walked here instead of a car pulling up in the front and dropping her off. That's what happened. I was busy cleaning the kitchen. When she appeared standing at the door, she looked tense. She made sure to put her overnight case in the truck before she came in. Then she came inside moving quickly, smiled, said how's everybody doing? Got S11 to put on his jacket to leave. Immediately turned around and walked out the door. Left S11 behind inside. I told S11 to have fun at tennis lessons and he left.
I wont ask her about the show. Won't ask her about her night. She's her own person so it's none of my business. I'll just wait for her to tell her story if she does. I will work to act as if she is telling the truth about her overnight stay with a girlfriend. I will not know either way anyway... so I just suck it up and live with it. Because I'm being better me.
This is a horrible horrible place.
But I just smile and keep doing like I did... right?
Last edited by HPoirot; 11/29/1402:56 PM.
Me: 44 W: 45 S: 11 Married: 15 Together: 18 BD: 9/29/2014 OM discovered: 10/16/2014 I left her behind: 12/14/2014
But I just smile and keep doing like I did... right?
Please try not to confuse having a smile on your face as meaning that is what Dbusting is all about. That is like having your spouse beat you to a pulp and thinking you should smile about it and say "thanks, I needed that and I will just keep on smiling"
It really is more of an entire change of attitude. Detaching where she would see and feel that you have let go. Not being mean or rude, but in your own little world. Becoming mysterious to let her wonder why the change in your demeanor. If she asks what is up with you... "Nothing, just doing some thinking" and then changing the subject and then going back into your own little world... Again, not mean or punitive.. Just a change in demeanor. (I'm big boy and I can handle it attitude)
That is how you handle someone who you don't trust or you know is lying to you. It's a demeanor of I really don't want to be with someone who I don't trust or who lies to me. It shows in your entire demeanor.. AGAIN, not mean or punitive. just matter of fact. Mysterious in what you are thinking.. Smiling when talking on the phone to someone else that she doesn't know who you are talking to. Smiling that you are running out the door to do something YOU are passionate about. I don't believe that means we smile as they lie to us or treat us with disrespect. Please don't confuse that issue. It also doesn't mean if we don't smile that we need to be mean or punitive.
I also agree with 25mlc about the workshop. Makes no sense to not go when she offered and initiated it. Why cut off your nose to spite your face? Let the workshop itself do it's magic. Your choice, but I think it is a major mistake to not take her up on her offer. Workshops are NOT the same as marriage counseling......You could have agreed to go, but let her believe your weren't sure there could be any progress. (that way there is no pressure and you haven't shown you are backing down from your boundaries)
Quote:
Third, I hope you like different opinions b/c here's one. cool
I don't agree with your refusal to go to a Workshop like Imago (or Essential Experience, aka "EE", for that matter) b/c your w is in an A.
Why?
B/C if Imago is at all like Retrovaille, (and I"ve heard that it is). then imo,
SHE CANNOT endure and get through a weekend of those talks and meeting those married couples and hearing the stories and doing the exercises and doing the introspective work and digging deep,
and Stay IN an affair AND stay married. At least I don't see how.
I mean, that's a whole lot of denial to endure and a lot of people to ignore, and for what?? To say "I tried"? She can do that in a MC's offices for less money and a lot faster! IF Imago is at all like Retrovaile or EE, I believe she'd never leave that workshop still active in the A, And Staying with you. I don't see how.
I'm not saying you have to go pretend all is well and you're just fine & dandy.
But those workshops are designed for marriages in crisis - and if you are trying to show her that you can change, how will you ever do that? Won't you just appear stubborn and resentful and punitive?
I have learned in my life that we basically teach people how to treat us, through either strong or weak boundaries, and through our own behavior and morals and ethics. I never allowed my wife to lie to me knowingly during her affair, and I still don't. She expects the same from me and we hold our own children and friends to that same standard.
Also, I disagree with Wonka about exposure. It worked for me, and although DB doesn't advise it many other infidelity programs do, and with great success. It's well within the mainstream of classic infidelity research and teaching, even if it's not for everyone.
All success stories whose Ms have been restored you read about here were/are achieved with zero exposure (or nearly zero).
It clearly refers to DBing and states that "or nearly zero" exposure. The only successful stories with exposure that I know of here in DB are you and Bond. As far as I know, the rest of the success stories were done without any exposure.
Like I stated previously, there's been a good discussion on the merits and non-merits of exposure. Personally, I prefer the DB approach for it is based on unconditional love and forces the LBS to do inward introspection on their contributions to the M problems.
I do not judge or condemn a person's decision to do exposure.
However, I am in total agreement about the lying and how much you're willing to tolerate them or NOT. It comes down to one's personal value system. I want to add that HP must have some solid evidence to refute W's lying and back it up. Otherwise, it'll look like HP is blowing how air.
I think all of the exposure success stories were pretty much driven off of the site, Wonka. There used to be a lot more here, but it's really not fair or appropriate to MWD to hang around and talk about it when she's against it. We are her guests here, so I don't advocate it, out of respect to her.
I think all of the exposure success stories were pretty much driven off of the site, Wonka. There used to be a lot more here, but it's really not fair or appropriate to MWD to hang around and talk about it when she's against it. We are her guests here, so I don't advocate it, out of respect to her.
Starsky
Ah....thanks for the explanation, Starsky. It does make sense.
