Being able to have a nice conversation is a start. Can't reconcile as long as each other are being mean and fighting. I just think a lot of LBH'S are able to stay balanced. They swing too far in one direction or the other.
The glimmer of hope I will try to pass along is that couples do make it through very bad times. It always seems to take longer than you ever thought it would. So don't lose hope due to whatever time it may be taking. There have been several to come back and report that it took a couple of years after they left the board. Mr. Bond's took four years! Starsky's was a long, hard process that would get better then get bad again.....before finally becoming stable and happy. Look how long 25yrs put up with her H! These are just three others who come to mind. And those vets over in MLC deserve a trophy for their endurance! Ever read Jack 3 Beans story? There have been many who reconciled and left the board. Don't give up.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you, Sandi. I do see the ability to actually talk without her being angry or completely cold to be a good thing. Baby steps, right?
I just have my moments (many, many moments) when I truly long for her company. I'm not exaggerating when I say that since we were together, I was always happy to be in the same room with her no matter what we were doing. She really was (is?) the love of my life and my best friend.
I've read the other sitches you mentioned, Sandi. They have, indeed, told me plainly that patience and single minded dedication may just save the day when all else fails. I always had the latter and I am learning the former.
I did see her for a moment when I dropped my son off today. She asked if I wanted to go to thanksgiving with her family. I'm not sure if she wants me there of if she's feeling sorry for me. I already signed up to volunteer at a shelter serving Thanksgiving dinner, so I am otherwise occupied. Even if I wasn't, I don't know that going would have been the right thing to do. More so if it was her pity that caused her to ask.
Its going to suck though. This will be the first Thanksgiving without my family since we got married. And my first, ever in my life, that I don't really have a family to share it with. At least I'll be making my time useful to others.
Its going to suck though. This will be the first Thanksgiving without my family since we got married. And my first, ever in my life, that I don't really have a family to share it with. At least I'll be making my time useful to others.
Personally, I think you made the right decision, and I admire the way you have chosen to spend the day.
It will be better to give up this one holiday if it will influence positively in how the future ones will be spent. I am a strong believer in stepping back from the WAW. Don't be scared to let her have the experience without you.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I'd give up more than a holiday for the opportunity to reconcile with my wife. Its kind of interesting you mentioned not to be, "scared to let her have the experience without you". This, in general, frightens me deeply. Not just with this holiday, but in general. She has somehow forgotten every good thing we had (I know, WAW...and thank you for your input into this, Sandi, it's been immeasurably valuable to me)so I feel like I can be easily replaced as I am very much the 'bad guy' in her mind. This frightens me to the core of my very being.
I wonder if there are times that she misses anything about our marriage. About me. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, I can recall hundreds and hundreds of wonderful moments...it hurts to think that she doesn't seem to recall even one.
In the end, it is what it is until it isn't. And I will not give up on my marriage, my family, until there is nothing left to fight for. I'm not there yet. Not even close.
Left the wife's place a little while ago after going to see my son. I think things went really well, but I am too afraid to hope.
As I've mentioned I have been dealing with a wall of anger and coldness in every exchange we had been having for months. Tonight, I played with my son for a while while she puttered around her place. I asked her how her week went, and off she ran into a ten minute run down of how her week went.
She seemed so animated, so into her story that I wondered for a moment if she remembered that she was talking to me. My normal way to converse would have had me interjecting a bunch of my opinions, but I kept my mouth shut and only said, "that's cool" or 'that [censored]' in appropriate places.
That conversation would down and I thought that would be the last of it. Then I asked her about a new painting on her wall that I recognized as belonging to her grandmother. She immediately started telling me stories about the painting and how she used to view it and the stories it would tell her as a little girl. Again, I pretty much kept my mouth shut and just listened. It was wonderful.
She mentioned her and my son were going to watch a movie together. I almost tried to invite myself. But then I said, "I should go so you guys can watch the movie before it gets too late'. I left a few minutes later.
I walked out stunned. This was the best moment I have had with my wife in a long time. Something so simple and small had a very profound effect on me. It felt like (the better part of) old times.
By the time I had gotten to my car, I was reminded completely of what i was fighting for. And how very much I miss it.
I don't want to get ahead of myself or read to much into it, but I can't help it. I want this to be a good sign so badly I can taste it. Needless to say this has left me very confused yet hopeful.
I want so badly to call or text her right now. But...patience. Baby steps. Caution, man, caution...it would be so easy to blow this right now. Baby steps.
I was on my way over to see my son for a bit, and the wife asked for money I had promised her. She had previously mentioned she wanted to go out for some pre black Friday deals. I did something stupid I guess, and questioned her usage of the money I was going to giver her and that it was supposed to be money she desperately needed and not for black Friday deals. She got mad that I questioned her and things spiraled downward after that.
She was very angry and I was very, very calm. But it still was a bad scene. She said that her financial troubles were all my fault because I was the one who made her leave. The distance from the truth in that statement can't even be measured. I did everything I could to keep my marriage together. Everything.
I know that I can't bring logic to the irrational. But it still hurts that, even months after she walked out, that she is still angry at me for things that seem to be only in her head.
Here's my question to the vets: we have no real financial arrangement at the moment. She expects that she doesn't have to ask me for support and I tell her that all she needs to do is ask and i will do what I can; her reply is that I should just know it and hand it over. So, do I just start handing over money? Would that be conducive to a reparation of our relationship of show me to be weak and unworthy in her eyes?
I decided to take some stock of myself today, to see if I have gained anything from our separation. I feel like I am lost and that I have lost so much of what used to be my life.
I have gotten healthier (although Thanksgiving week blew that a bit, heh heh).
I have more control over how I express myself. I always tended to be somewhat fiery and excitable, but have toned that down to almost non-existent.
I have proved that I am a hard worker after being out of work for a while. I was made to feel like a layabout for a while and I was never that way. I like working, it's integral to who I am.I believe that again.
I was (and am) made out to be some horrid person by my wife over the last six months, and I am finally convincing myself that's simply not the case. I am a decent human being, who loves freely. I am deeply hurt by those who break my trust (something I have not conquered)because I love so deeply when I do. I am supportive and care about people I like or love.
Although I am receiving the blame for the break up of my marriage (and I still have not heard solid reasons - or at least none I understand as irrevocably broken things - from my wife as to why she left or why she continues to carry so much anger), I know that I was supportive, communicative, loving, affectionate and very willing to bring comfort. I may not have been perfect, but I sincerely believe I was a decent husband for the vast majority of our marriage as well as a good dad.
The things I am working on are to work more on detachment and GAL. The last one seems so hard; outside of work I am finding it hard to meet people to do things with (my wife's family were the people we hung out with before. I found some 'divorce groups' around here, but they seem a tad cliquish and don't do much. My 'hobby', more than anything, was my family; that's where I spent my time and energy. I'm having a hard time replacing that with anything else.
I haven't found a way to beat this feeling of extreme loneliness.
I haven't given up. Although it's bruised and battered, I still have hope. And I love my wife. I think I may have forgiven her for the hurt and lies as well...but I am not all the way there yet as I still harbor some anger. Not much, but its there. I'm sure that completely forgiveness is very much possible. It would be a lot easier if there was some progress towards a reconciliation.
First off, you need a financial agreement. Based on other WAW's and their stitch, she may think she will get more from you without one, but IDK. Does she have her own income? (Sorry, can't remember.). If it was her idea to leave the home, IMO, she should not expect more than child support. And, if you have the kids half of the time, that should be considered in that evaluation. That's why I think a lawyer needs to handle it, b/c they won't be guilted into things like the LBH will. Right now, she is looking out for her own financial wellfare. You would be wise to protect yourself. With a financial agreement in place, you submit a certain amount, and then it is up to her how she spends it.
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My 'hobby', more than anything, was my family; that's where I spent my time and energy. I'm having a hard time replacing that with anything else.
People and relationships aren't hobbies. Perhaps you never had a hobby or special interest in anything that did not involve your family. Does that sound healthy or balanced? To me, it sounds like a potential setup for a man becoming co-dependent, which is not a good thing. And I can speak from experience of being M to a man who was co-dependent on his family (not me and the kids). You may not know where to start, but you really need to find something in life for yourself that is not dependent on a family member. It is great that you enjoy spending time and energy with them, but can you see where there should have been more balance in your life? I think one thing that helps keep a couple's relationship healthy is to have independent interest, activities, same sex friends, etc. (Of course, you wouldn't include anything that would be inappropriate or endangerous to the MR/family like having opposite sex friends that you text and meet up.). I think every couple needs to have other couple friends who are not related.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you, Sandi; you give me lots to chew on, as usual.
To refresh your memory, my wife works and makes more than I do. I don't mind contributing to the welfare of our children (it what I should be doing), but her leaving left me (and her) in a financial hole that we are both feeling the strain from. I'm struggling to get money together to move out of the house we shared (which will likely be foreclosed on), but something (legitimate) always comes up as soon as I sock away a few dollars to move. This was the house we shared for 15 years and I really need to be out of here, for more than just financial reasons. I cant afford a lawyer to hash this stuff out yet, but I'm holding on until I do.
Maybe "hobby' was the wrong word, but I was trying to make a point. My family was simply where I spent most of my time and energy. Perhaps I did become a bit co-dependent. But I always enjoyed spending time with my family. Many of my personal hobbies were solitary things, and I did make time for them. But my family, and doing things with them, was my favorite and most frequent thing to do. It was also my main social outlet, which was probably not the best idea in retrospect. Not having all those things (school stuff, sports stuff, going to find places to play, general messing about) has left a big hole in who I am and what I do with my time.
You're right in saying that we need people in our own circles to pal around with. As my family - and my couple of more solitary hobbies - took up so much of my time, I didn't have the energy to pursue or retain my friendships. That was my own fault, and I am working on that now where I am able. Its just that I really miss that family time, and that loss left some mighty big shoes to fill.
Thank you, as always, for your input, Sandi. It is appreciated.
