MLC W Dates, Part V

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I don't watch The Affair, but then I also don't give myself papercuts and pour lemon juice on them either. I try not to swallow broken glass as well.

[Wet]

I don't watch The Affair, but then I also don't give myself papercuts and pour lemon juice on them either. I try not to swallow broken glass as well.

Ok, ok, comedians, I will leave the subject of a show I was enjoying that I thought others may have strong feelings about.

Journaling - I saw my M and D for lunch today, and I got into a really cool convo with my Mom. My oldest brother died of cancer 28 years ago, and it hit my parents very hard (I was out of town at this time, and so it had a lesser impact on me). He was married shortly after finding out he had cancer. He went thru several years of battling the cancer, he was strong and a fighter. But when the cancer got into my brother's brain, he lost the essence of who we was.

But what hurt my siblings and my parents so hard was that my brother's W was caught with another man shortly after the brain cancer was found. My Mom asked her years later why she just didn't wait until after my brother died to start up with another relationship? And my brother's W said that she was trapped and she felt like it would never end.

So that was the question I always kicked around in my brain was why my W didn't just wait until after the divorce to date other men. My Mom's explanation was helpful for me in seeing it a different way. It was also a nice bonding moment with my Mom, as we also spoke about forgiveness thru situations like this.

[AJM]

What were your thoughts on forgiveness, Wet?

People do what people do. I.e. they do the best they can with the tools they have at the time they have to. Does that make them broken? Perhaps. Maybe it just makes them human. Who can judge?

What often sets MLC aside is the idea that they "quickly" do things radically different then they did before. Like they are searching for a different way and have opposite values to what they previously professed. Like it's a life or death pursuit. Like they had been pretending before and now it's the real them without the "mask". For example, they might have been in a self-reported fulfilling relationship and family for 20+ years and suddenly they feel they are not happy. They go on to feel they were never happy and create a "crisis" of some sort possibly as a way to stop the free-fall. They do what they do with the tools they have at the time they have them.

Is it really "quickly"? Some say yes, others no. Experience varies. But the cause is almost always internal to the person. The trigger might be something external. The crisis seems to be similar to many likely because there are just so many ways you can interact with others.

Becoming human is a tough journey. Creating a crisis is optional of course, but it seems to go hand in hand. So does lying, cheating, etc. The underlying motivation is never clear... until/if it is.

Why do people do what they do? Why do they lie, cheat, steal, hurt others intentionally? <shrug> Reasons vary.

AJ

[Wet]

Hi AJ, when I talked with my Mom about forgiveness, she said that she was able to set aside the pain from my brother's W leaving his side during the brain cancer (which took his life) to be with another OM. My Mom ended up having a friendly r with her, and the result was that my parents have a nice r with their grandchild from my brother. So she encouraged forgiveness if for nothing more than the results that come from it.

I just got a call from W. D18 (living in another state, going to college), has over $600 in overdrafts on her account - W thought they set up the account with overdraft protection, but no. W wants me to go into the bank and play harda$$ lawyer, and I'm not sure this is my battle. I also know she cannot register for next semester b/c of outstanding school debts. I'm thinking it is time to tell d18 to just come home. I need to think about this one.

[kat727]

I think it is time to let your daughter work with the school and the bank to get her affairs in order. Let her decide if she comes home or not. She will learn so much from this. You could offer to go with her or help her work out her plan. She overdrafted her account, no one else. Her mess to clean up.

Kat

[Lifes Twists]

I agree with Kat, make this a teaching / learning moment for your daughter. Even if she falls flat on her face she will learn how to pick herself up and keep moving. if you make the decision for her then she won't learn. Give her the tools to succeed. Offer her guidance when asked and make sure she knows you will be there for her without bailing her out.

[Mach1]

I thought Truegritter's questions were rhetorical. But because AJ thinks I should actually answer them, I will.

Why don't maybe, you answer them for yourself....

Cause that is who you wanna be, and you want to understand yourself just a little better...

Wet, maybe you should read Grit's threads, and see WHY he asks those questions.....

[Wet]

Why don't maybe, you answer them for yourself....

Cause that is who you wanna be, and you want to understand yourself just a little better...

Wet, maybe you should read Grit's threads, and see WHY he asks those questions.....

Mach, Mach, Mach, is your day not complete unless you get to take a shot at poor 'ol Wet? I am new to this, I haven't been around the block on dealing with a WAW, and so I listen to suggestions, I'm teachable. So yes, I listen to people on the board that I respect (errr, like YOU), in hopes that I will learn something, that it will help ME. And surprise, surprise, just as you suggested, answering Truegritter's questions helped. Me.

So I watched 'Scott Pilgrim vs. the World' tonight. I love this movie. But the end is the best. Here Scott is battling the “evil 7 exes” of Ramona. He does it to win her, to free her from her past. But against the 7th evil ex, Scott learns that after dying (don't worry, he has a "1-up"), that he fights these evil guys for himself, not to "fix" or rescue Ramona. With this discovery he earns the Sword of Self Respect and with this insight, he wins the battle. For himself. Hilarious movie!

[TSquared2]

It's the "why " of the questions that you need to look at, not the answers. Right now. That'll come later, when the "why" is understood.

[Mach1]

Mach, Mach, Mach, is your day not complete unless you get to take a shot at poor 'ol Wet? I am new to this, I haven't been around the block on dealing with a WAW, and so I listen to suggestions, I'm teachable. So yes, I listen to people on the board that I respect (errr, like YOU), in hopes that I will learn something, that it will help ME. And surprise, surprise, just as you suggested, answering Truegritter's questions helped. Me.

Hey Wet..

I took your suggestion and stepped back for a day...

And I gotta say, sadly for your pity party, My day was still complete without busting you on the head....

Did you go back and read his threads ???

Maybe it will help you get from this...

Wet's answer
I thought Truegritter's questions were rhetorical. But because AJ thinks I should actually answer them, I will.

How would I want to be loved, if I was in crisis, scared, if I was confused, and if life was chaotic? I would want to be loved unconditionally, without judgment, and with a self-giving, self-sacrificial love.

Yes, my W needs me to love her now more than ever. And you have shown me that I should be giving my W the same kind of love that I would want if my life was turned upside down ("unconditionally, without judgment, and with a self-giving, self-sacrificial love").




Grit's answer

How do we need to be loved?

At this point in your journey it is still about how you need to be treated (loved) and yourself worth and respect is still dependent on your spouse and others.

We may decide to leave at this point because of the long suffering we have endured at the hands of our spouse and predicament. If we leave now we confirm our ignorance of what love means and confirm that to our spouse that your love was not real but dependent and conditional.

You confirm again all the self loathing your spouse feels inside because the person that is supposed to love them hasn’t and won’t and never will.

We then begin to understand…

We yearn for a deeper answer. We crave knowledge that has so far been unattainable.

We want to know the mystery of love. The mystery of our marriage. To know ourselves.

To remove self doubt. To know ourselves. To know who we are at our core.

We start to focus on ourselves. To look inside and know who we are.

Find things we don’t like. Endeavor to change them. To learn what and who we aspire to be.

Not as someone our spouse wants us to be. We tried that already.
Who we really are.

When you do that you begin to understand why you are standing for your spouse and your marriage.

And you start to learn what real love is.

Unconditional love is caring about the happiness of another without any thought for what we might get for ourselves. It’s also when other people care about our happiness unconditionally.

And what it is not

It is not what we have lived in our life and our marriage up to now. It is not controlling. It does not desire and force. It does not depend on action or inaction from our spouse.

And so as we let this soak and it takes hold we discover an amazing thing and it gives life to us and breaths hope into our spirits and that is

Unconditional love is when we love despite the foolish choices of our spouse, when they fail to do what we desire, regardless of any choice they make. This love alone has the power to heal all wounds, deliver self respect and remove all doubt for you and your spouse. It allows love and healing to flourish.

This is how we need to be loved. And this is the paradox.

That we only get this when we give it.

And now is the opportunity.

There is no GREATER opportunity you will ever have in your life then NOW to express this kind of love.

To do this takes greater courage than most people will ever understand and will ever know.

And you have received this wonderful gift only by going through the experience. By the trial.

By the tragedy.

What greater thing could you aspire to do.

EVER.

So I watched 'Scott Pilgrim vs. the World' tonight. I love this movie. But the end is the best. Here Scott is battling the “evil 7 exes” of Ramona. He does it to win her, to free her from her past. But against the 7th evil ex, Scott learns that after dying (don't worry, he has a "1-up"), that he fights these evil guys for himself, not to "fix" or rescue Ramona. With this discovery he earns the Sword of Self Respect and with this insight, he wins the battle. For himself. Hilarious movie!

One of my Son's favorite movies...seen it many times....