Raliced - Climbing Without a Rope

[raliced]

So I just had a surprisingly civil conversation with STBX. I'm right in the middle of a refinance and his 2013 W2 is missing and we need it to close. I had to call him to ask him to get a copy from his HR. He bent over backwards to help out when I told him this was causing me stress. Heck- he was almost warm. It was like a conversation we might have had before BD. Maybe he was just mirroring my tone.

I've read on here that occasionally people get glimpses of their "old" spouse - and its sure weird when it happens. Still don't miss him though.

I believe its the first time I've initiated a phone call that wasn't prearranged since BD.

[raliced]

My daughter has a Thanksgiving assignment to decorate a plate with what she's thankful for - and of course she said - "I'm thankful for Daddy because he works so hard" - which pulled my heartstrings.

I didn't have a picture of him in his current uniform and had to ask him to have someone take a picture with his phone and send it to me - and it just arrived.

Complete Twilight Zone Moment. First of all, I haven't adjusted to having these sorts of "normal" interactions in the middle of such an unnatural situation, and getting the picture and seeing him smile up at me just feels very weird. And then of course,he looks happy, healthy, relaxed and at peace with the world - in the midst of all this chaos. Oh well, D6 will be very pleased.

[Shakspr]

Rali...likewise. Normal stuff done in a normal way when we feel anything but...is weird. Surreal. And yet, it gets better.

I picked up a coat for S11 last night and dropped it off at her place. It got COLD early for us Texans. Anyway, it was all the stuff I would normally do except for the address. The exchange was civil and she was thankful, etc. Then I just left without much fanfare. All business. Total time in the foyer - 3 minutes. I think she was more put off by the change than I was for once - she asked twice if I was OK - which was unnecessary because I had my PMA going.

Also, she has addressed me as "hon" in two recent text messages. Typically when we are working together for the betterment of the children. No mindreading. But it's better than being called an @$$ like she was - frequently - 2 months ago.

Not that there is a point to all this, but the best possible thing for your long-term goals is for your STBX to see you don't NEED him. An independent, "together", rali is going to be way more attractive than one who is cycling through wacky emotions. Asking him for something for your D6, saying thank you, and moving on is as normal as it gets right now.

I think we need MANY of these kinds of interactions to even have a chance that the WAS will start resetting/reconsidering his/her current mindset. They already know we want to make marriage work.

[HPoirot]

Not that there is a point to all this, but the best possible thing for your long-term goals is for your STBX to see you don't NEED him. An independent, "together", rali is going to be way more attractive than one who is cycling through wacky emotions.

I know you're right about that Shakspr... but, for me, not feeling that need is the especially tough part. How long did it take for that feeling to get manageable for you? I'm hoping quick.

[Shakspr]

It happened right around the same time period where these three things became simultaneously true in my mind (all had moments of truth, then wavering - yet they all became true in my mind simultaneously about a week before I was divorced. But check out my dates; not that long.)

1) My wife thought of us as divorced off and on since late 2013 (big fight, culmination of past problems). I needed to get on board with that idea...while hoping and working toward a new reality
2) I remembered who I was - who I am - and who I can be. A strong, funny, capable man with a ton of things going for me. With God, there is absolutely nothing I can't handle.
3) Her willingness to engage in an EA/ possible PA was discovered - and dealt with. I did NOT need her after that. Because I now knew she was not the person I married, not the person with whom I had built a home, not the mother she espoused herself to be. She was a new/old creature, repeating mistakes of her past in a new way. And she didn't see these actions as mistakes. And, most importantly, I HAD to change. No matter what the outcome. I must have the greenest grass, and be a man.

You will know that you are nearing this point when you are planning GAL stuff and consciously acting out your 180s because you WANT to, not because you know you have to!

I long for the marriage that was, and remain hopeful for the marriage that might yet be. But the flawed, tit-for-tat, resentful, disconnected marriage that she left is absolutely dead, never to return.

[raliced]

Not that there is a point to all this, but the best possible thing for your long-term goals is for your STBX to see you don't NEED him. An independent, "together", rali is going to be way more attractive than one who is cycling through wacky emotions. Asking him for something for your D6, saying thank you, and moving on is as normal as it gets right now.

I think we need MANY of these kinds of interactions to even have a chance that the WAS will start resetting/reconsidering his/her current mindset. They already know we want to make marriage work.

Thanks Shakes....I guess I wonder about this. I've always been independent and not needy. The day of the BD (which was done by note) I sat in stunned silence for 15 minutes and then immediately went into survival mode and put together a plan for how to keep the house etc. I still haven't cried.

I can't help but notice that his first mistress had just been dumped by her husband and was in need of "rescuing" (I don't know the story with the current one). It makes me wonder if he wants someone who is needier and more vulnerable. Is that a guy thing? Regardless, I'm not capable of being a needy mess, so I guess its a moot point.

[Shakspr]

That can be and is often a guy thing. "Women and Children First" and all that chivalrous stuff. We can't have kids, and aren't typically as emotionally developed as the fairer sex. But we can get stuff done. I call it single-mindedness of purpose (probably borrowed that from somewhere.)

And men are VERY comfortable with exactly one tough problem to handle. If there happens to be a fair damsel breathing heavily at the finish line...bonus! Layers and subtlety and complexity are hard.



I find myself drawing parallel. Why do nations go to war...diplomacy fails because someone gets tired of all the yackety-yack. Usually a man. Then soldiers, sailors, airmen and their families pay the price, much the same way that we LBS pay for the WAS decision to go a little wacky.

So...I'm clearly not a vet. But if you have been independent and too detached from your H, it may be that he needed more validation. It is extremely unfortunate for everyone involved that he went somewhere else to get it.

I know it runs counter to what is often perceived as DB'g 'round here. But would it be a 180 for you to show vulnerability? To show him that you consider him valuable even if you can do without him - that things are better with him? Sure, now it's W2's and Thanksgiving projects (didn't he respond positively on those?) Do what works! You will also need him to be an excellent father when that same child is 16, not just 6. How you show him that is up to you.

[raliced]

Shakespr - You have given me a lot to chew on. I've had similar thoughts percolating in the back of my brain - but you summarized and brought them into focus nicely, thank you. I certainly noticed the positive tone this last week - but I wasn't sure if I should attribute it to the fact we've been finalizing all the divorce stuff and he's trying to play nice.

So - yes - I will experiment with showing more vulnerability and see if it yields any results.

I am of two minds about the vulnerability thing.

On the one hand, my STBX has always seemed to have self esteem issues about being a "man". He's got some sort of hang up with his Dad and I'm sure this is one of the things that led to him pursuing a career in Law Enforcement fairly late in life. Honestly, he always seemed invigorated when he got into a tussle with a suspect at work. Also, (we're all anonymous internet friends here, right?) he had a majorly low testosterone problem that was not detected until he had his physical to beecome a cop 6 years ago. Since that time hes been on testosterone supplements- and in all honesty, his need to be "manly" really seemed to increase since that time. I suppose that my independence may have chipped awqay at his masculinity?

On the other hand...when he first met and fell in love with me, we worked together and I had a job that was two or three levels above him and handily managed a 150 person department. There was nothing vulnerable about me. I was a highly capable overachiever. It always seemed to be one of the things that he admired about me. His mom is a supervising ER nurse who has run marathons in 50 states and is also very independent - so he seemed comfortable with strong women. Since that time, I've cooled my jets on the career so that I could spend more time at home and be less stressed out with the kids, and I swear it seems like he has lost some admiration for me. In fact, some of the other advice on these boards is to remind him of who I was when he fell in love with me - which was decidedly not vulnerable.

Last January, my youngest daughter (2 at the time) got pneumonia and I took her to the ER while STBX stayed home with our other daughter. Once we got to the hosital her condition deteriorated rapidly (I didn't know it was possible to have a fever that high), and I called him and told him that I needed him there with me and to take D6 to my parents. By the time he got there, I was about as messy of a vulnerable blob as you can imagine. My daughter was hooked up to IVs and oxygen and I genuinely thought she might die. I was bawling and I needed him......and all he did was give me a pat on the back and awkwardly say - "She'll be ok". I know that probably isn't fair - he was probably dealing with his own fear - but at my most vulnerable moment - he didn't exactly rise to the occasion.

By the way - I should say - I'm not an unemotional robot. I'm actually very sentimental and I cry about all kinds of things (Watching "Its A Wonderful Life" at Christmas reduces me to an absolute puddle). When my dogs died this spring, the tears streamed freely. A well written commercial will get me every time. But in an emergency or stressful situation - I have ice in my veins. Some of the other posters here talk about falling apart and I swear, sometimes I'm a little envious, in many ways that seems like a healthier and more natural reaction.

[Georgiabelle]

Raliced,

Fiercely independent, not a crier, not vulnerable and you love Almond Joys? Am I looking in a mirror? Do you like skittles??:)I'm positive we would be friends IRL. I can't tell you how many women tell me I'm just like their xBF or xH.I'm not a vet, and I can count on one hand the number of times I had cried prior to BD. And any crying since then has been at my children being hurt. That makes me furious and want to go all teenage mutant ninja turtle on x Mr GB. However, I realize that's a waste-just like you have. Not the person you want to be and an energy drain.

I think showing vulnerability is a good thing -period. If this isn't natural for you (and it isn't for me), it can be a very difficult 180. However, I think it's good for your Rs moving forward-regardless of who you are with. I struggle with this. My natural inclination is to either a) push them away or b) say "whatevs". I don't have an answer for you as it can be such a challenge. Right now, I have a giant wall I've built up-even larger than the one I had before. It isn't a healthy thing.

Hang in there. You are doing great with your girls and your interactions with your h. Focus on you. Who do you want to be? You are getting there.

[Shakspr]

I have heard, anecdotally, (okay, I know a couple) of women who were/are absolute Type A take-charge people in their public life, and more vulnerable/feminine at home (men do this too, btw.) Or vice/versa.

All you gals tell me how good you are at multi-tasking...so, here's an opportunity. Take no prisoners in the workplace...

But look for those opportunities in private to let STBX know you need a man with whom you can let you hair down, that you can trust to handle things if the problems get too big. That you want HIM to BE that man. If you get the chance...let him know how much you appreciate the positive changes he has made through this transition, WHATEVER they may be. Even if it's nothing more than the fact that you are attracted to his new decisiveness. You hope that it could be used in a different way, sure. But he can figure that out through your body language.

Few of us overgrown boys can resist the urge to rise to that sort of challenge. And I believe in the power of subtle suggestion. That's the sort of comment that will stick in his mind.

I haven't been a crier most of my life, but the past year has been weird. I have opened up to God a lot. And I find as I let go of stuff, tears often follow. If you have ever tapped into a higher power, now is the time to reinvigorate that relationship. It is cathartic when you are able to simply stop holding back.