Merrick I feel for you. I remember all those feelings like they were yesterday. Your W is always so animated with everything. Thats one thing thats different about our sitches. Mine was more passive even with our D. She is affraid to talk about anything. I think you are handling yourself magnifacently! I think your the new ICEMAN!!! Keep it up, your doing it right by not taking the bait. She is looking for reactions by doing and saying the things she does to set you off. Interesting she said you are trying to physiclly destoying her. Wouldnt she have meant mentally?
I also noticed she was paranoid about you trying to claim her a unfit mother. I find this very interesting because this has come up with my W on occasion also.Is it they feel so much guilt and shame they feel this is a real possibility? Just strikes me oddly they would even suggest this is possible. Merrick with that said be careful moving out. Im sure you are looking into legal ramifications and so on with that choice...be careful. I have given my sitch alot of thought on what I would do different if I had the choice just to see if I could help you in your quest and although I think I did the right thing staying here, its the one question mark in my mind that I have to wonder if things could have been different if I would have done a legal seperation. One thing negative on that is its hard to do a legal sep and still get your kids half the time. I would imagine it would effect the court ruling in the end judgement for placement as well. This is a huge flag and a big red flag for you to watch. Well I am going to run. KOFTGF, your doing a swell job with your detachment as of late Merrick. Hang in there, better days are ahead for you. God Bless, Eddy
Eddy, you know from Day One I have done the "Should I Stay or Should I Go" dance in my head. Apart from the legal issues, it seems clear that the best reason to stay is that it's driving my W crazy about her lack of control over what i do.
Why would I want to do soemthing that drives her crazy?
Because she is a control freak and this is not a matter of me dominating her throughout M and calling all the shots. Indeed, if anyhting, she has called the shots and I have been passive to keep her happy. I can't help but think that my leaving now would just feed the control beast who would come back looking for more. Nothing could be more clear than when I floated the thought of moving for a monthor two and coming back. Rather than asking quesiotns about that sceanrio, she immediately said in a negative tone, "What makes you think you should have the right to move back!" This is where I will not be a doormat and let her think she can push me out. About the only scenario where I could see a legal separation working is where most of our money is funneled into the kids' savings and W and I are forced to live in tight times in ways that we haven't in a long time. But even then, OM would pay her way!!!
This morning W started in again as soon as I woke up, fussing about everything. It started to get intense when she couldn't brush our D's hair and claimed it was because I did not rinse the shampoo properly (I've bathed and showered my kids since they were newborns) and that she had to do it all the time now. This led into how nothing in our kids lives would get done if she were not around and that she should leave them with me two weeks and I won't fight for custody--yada, yada, yada. When were alone, she also suggested that if I did not move out, she would move with the kids. In a bad DB response, I said that would be difficult to accomplish, but I backed off when she asked what I meant.
At Church, with the entire family, 1/2 of the homily was about M and about how we need to put our past failings aside and pledge to be better W's and H's and not allow the Devil to fill our voids with temptations such as infidelity. I just kept my mouth shut.
Later, I took all my kids to see the Islanders--my girls' first NHL game and met some old friends at the game. Although they lost to the worst team in the league, we all had a great time. I'm going to sleep in the basment again tonight (on weekends I'm always with W so kids don't see--I'm almost out of the house when they wake up on weekdays).
Once again, today, the PMA is high, but I admit havign a hard time looking at other couples right now. That's all for now.
Hi Merrick,
Ugh, my work LAN had problems on and off all day today ...
I can relate to the onslaught you are being bombarded with and I admire how you have been taking it in stride. You're doing great for yourself under very difficult circumstances. Keep validating what she says. This doesn't mean you are doormat or even agreeing with her point of view, but that you making an effort to reflect on what she says. When she insists of placing blame on you, try reply with slight variations of ... "I'm sorry you feel that way." Its not admission of agreement to her POV, but only that you are acknowledging her right to having such an opinion. When she continues to press for your input, keep to "I" statements like adding on ... "I'm sorry you feel that way ... but its just that I believe differently ... "
You're not gonna toss that ball of blame back ... right now no doubt it something she expects, but at the same time by coming back with "I" statements ... "I think ...", "It's my belief ...", "I feel ...", etc., will still get your point across in a way that deflects her anger and where she will remember what you say as she continue to ponder over it all.
For instance...
Quote: She says she can't understand how my seeing the kids for just a few hours a day during the week is preventing me from just going someplace else--that the kids will adjust and won't miss me.
The response could go something like this ... "How unfortunate it would be for the children that you feel they would not miss their father, but let me asure you, I would miss them terribly. Through all this, I have come to realize that my family really is the most important thing in my life and while I may have lost you, I still have a golden oppurtunity to become a very big part of their childhood. I feel every minute I can spend with them enriches my life and theirs. I hope you will come to see that too."
Quote: from Day One I have done the "Should I Stay or Should I Go" dance in my head
Don't leave the house until you have check all the legal angles!! In NY, if you leave the house without a seperation agreement, she can file for a D immediately with charges of abandonment otherwise she will have to wait a year with the sep agrmnt ... and for what I've read here, where the WAS asks their S to leave and they abide, most S's that left ended up regretting it. IMO, if she feels she can't work things out, she is gonna need to take action to "fix" it. If she feels she needs the seperation, she should make the arrangements to move out. If that is her choice, then don't intervene.
Shoot its gettin late ... so gotta go ...
'til later,
KAW
P.S. I forgot, I wanted to ask (If you don't midn me being so direct) ... there were a couple of references to you W feeling she was abandoned by you. This seems to be a big issue with her. Can you provide more details on that?
W was calmer today in the very brief moments we crossed paths, as I avoided most contact with her. She has ditched wedding ring once again and is out tonight doing campaign stuff.
I got home late from a work reception and spent most of my time chatting with female collegues visiting from out of town. Good PMA boost in that none of them found an excuse to go someplace else!
KAW--great advice. Not to sound comical, but I've tried some of these things and may have given up too quickly. For example, the "I believe; I feel" comments are met with, "How can you feel that way because?" OR, "You may feel that way, BUT." Basically, she anti-DBs me. Still, it's a lot better than the alternatives and does create food for thought so long as I don't get caught in a tit for tat. Something to think about.
Legally, in NY I'm in much better shape than others on this board. She has no grounds for divorce and her lawyer told her there's pretty much nothing she can do to get me out if I don't want to go. Abandonment as grounds for D also requires a one-year absence.
However, I get conflicting advice on leaving. Some say once your out, if W gets an A-hole attorney, they can conjure up all sorts of things to keep you out and away. But my atty said if I leave, it can be done pursuant to some type of agreemen short of a legal separation that should suffice. That is, if we get involved in other crap (like our good friend Eddy), reconciliation is clearly not the first order of business. One thing it does as Eddy warned is that it acknowledges that W is primary caregiver. However, my atty said no judge in NY would rule otherwise since she has been a SAHM for ten years.
The "abandonment" W mentions is her feeling of emotional abandonment. Unlike others here who feel they were hit out of left field, my W raised numerous red flags of her hurt over the years, feeling that she was not getting what she wanted from me in the R. Most of this was because I did not speak her Love Language, so acts of service, physical touch, even gifts were not waht she was looking for--but a deep emotional connection (another female freind???). Our sex life could be described as sex-starved (for me) since its earliest days, given that I was in law school five nights a week-- although our sex has always been hearty and mutually satisfying when we were intimate. I atributed her anxiety not to me, but the circumstances of a one-time successful young professional being trapped at home. I tried to offer her physocal relief in taking on chores, giving her time off, and disciplining the kids--she took this as an attitude that i didn't think she could hack it. In short, I was missing her needs bigtime while she was missing mine.
In fact, W was constantly on edge with the kids, and while I know her job is exceedingly tough, I saw many of her complaints arising from her not taking a much tougher stance with the kids on several fronts. If you go to my very first post, you may get a flavor. In any event, eventually, I just tuned out from the rejection in the bedroom and my sense that nothing I could do would make her happy. I even told her that I can't help her--to which she felt that I kicked her while she was down. I started watching ballgames with my son and going to more and more games while sitting on the computer in our basement. I guess I undertook "tough love" approach when tenderness was really needed. Anyway, that's where the abandonment comes in. Until next time.
You are sure one persistant man!! Alot of other people would have given up in the face of the treatment you are recieving, I'm impressed.
As far as leaving or not........it really comes down to YOU and what YOU want. If your wife isn't happy then that is up to her.
In the end you may well decide that you want to sep. and thats ok, but at least you will know that you have given it your best shot and done all that is in your power to stop it.
I don't know how i would handle the constant hammering, it sounds like a dog with a bone, almost as if she can't let it drop at all or even let you have a moments peace with it!
You are doing so very well.....and i agree....become the OM!!
Lee! Great to hear from you. I hope you are doing well with H. I only have a few moments so I'll check on your sitch tonight.
Last night, I decided to sleep in bed with W, which made her huffy because she thought I made a permanent retreat to the basement. I guess this was a 360. I said the sofa bed was too uncomfortable and I wanted a good night's sleep. W said she'll just sleep downstairs for now on.
BUT, since I have an early morning flight tomorrow for an overnight biz trip, I'll sleep downstairs again tonight so I don't bother anyone in the morning. She'll be out late with a campaign fundraiser (OM involved of course) and will get home to see me downstairs--which will put her off-balance again.
W made her first venture to the gym this morning at 5:45 and was surprisingly friendly when she got back and I asked her how it went. I also promised to get home early so she could make her campaign event on time and she even responded softly to my "Have a good day," as I left with a "You too." Usually, I get nothing, sarcasm, or a mumble. Not anything to read into, but certainly a more pleasant way to start the day. Perhaps D5's comment that W is mean to me hit a nerve since all the kids were present.
With my trip, there will be no real contact with W until Friday night or Saturday, which again gives us space. PMA is still high--for now, but I have a busy work week ahead.
You are, as usual, doing a great job. Isn't it ridiculous, we've come to a point in our life, where we have to calculate our behavior and though we are not supposed to, give thought to how it affects or if another person reacts?
Life and M are not a smooth ride, but I do not suspect we imagined this nonsense when we looked ahead. M life was supposed to be better and more enjoyable as we progressed, not throw us off the !@#$%^& cliff!
Boy, you're doing well with keeping upbeat and your eye on the goal. I think you need to get a blue ribbon for bravery!
I will comment on your observation that your W needs a close emotional connection, similar to that you find in a female friend.
Is that what the political OM gives her? Were you once the guy who was her best friend?
Triple J and I had a chat about this very subject yesterday, so it's still fresh in my mind.
I don't know if you read my earlier posts, but I was nearly a WAW myself. I elected not to run away because I realized that I still loved him, but wanted to change our M. He chose to leave...
Anyway, what I was missing (and still am) was having him for my best friend. Somewhere along the way he quit being my friend. I'm sure if I try and figure out why, it will become a chicken and egg scenario... however, I DID have with him what I have with other close female friends.
For me, it helped me solidify that deep emotional connection to him... I actually knew I was madly in love with him when he acted like my friend before he acted like my lover. And in the early years of our M (up to the birth of D10), he continued to treat me like an esteemed friend.
Some of us women feel cherished and valued when our men treat us as intelligent, warm, and deserving people as they are treating us like the women THEY desire. The combination can be heady.
Having kids can really put a damper on that effort. You devote your time to dealing with the inherent craziness they bring to your life together and then there's little left over for you and your spouse (I know that drill well).
I suspect that your W may be telling you the truth that she's not having a PA with political OM. But I also suspect that she is very much addicted to the type of friendship he has to offer her right now.
Which, BTW, means that there is always hope for you and your M. Because if you were this guy before knucklehead came along, you can be him once again.
Hearing your account of your D's accusation that her mom is mean to you brought back a very unpleasant memory of mine too. The fact is, I had been very angry with Mr. W. for several years--and he hid behind the kids to avoid it.
At some point, I didn't go for them, but I had to address him through them and it was ugly. (I really HATE thinking about this.) I was resentful and angry and most of all, hurt and rejected. It colored me to my daughters... and I remember D10 saying on occasion that I was mean to her dad.
Well, she wasn't mature enough to see that her Dad is a major conflict avoider and passive-aggressive.... but that didn't negate the person I had become.
I didn't decide to see things differently until the night he left--when D10 told me at the dinner table that I had become someone who was scary and who frightened her.
I promised her and myself that I would leave that person behind, and I did.
I suspect what your D observed is just a start in your W's own journey.
Keep up the amazing work on you, hold your head high and bend over here so I can give you a big hug.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I did a quick check of the board after lunch and am happy I did. You are 300% correct. W used to have this sing song chnat, "Where would I be without my best friend... Merrick?" Kids, work, life, did a lot to break this up. And like most of us, I took my M for granted in that we would always work it out. And to drive this point home, her pet name for OM is Best Buddy.
Right now, she will not accept my outward friendship and, right or wrong (she is the one who refused marriage building counseling), she has viewed my actions of recent months as reinforcing a combative R between us rather than a cooperative one. She sees me plotting to take away the kids and to blame her for everything. She has her issues, but at the core is a beautiful woman who simply wants to be validated in life. My job is to move her to the point where she no longer sees separation/divorce as the only option to one where she can accept validation from me. That requires kindness, compassion, and real self-reflection on my part over a long period of time to accomplish. It will not happen overnight.
Many of my W's relatives think that I should move out so that W's life is miserable and she'll understand the role I play in her life, but that's not how I view it. To me, that would be spiteful and make her dig in her heels more. I now understand what DB Coach Laurie means when she says stay in the house until it's totally counterproductive. Laurie means show her your good side at every opportunity and contain the beast within me when it wants to fight. If she needs space, give it to her. In my mind, staying is only counterproductive when I fully implment DBing approaches and go backwards; to date, I have not really done that (full DBing) because I have not sufficiently detached and worked exclusively on bettering myself. After much trial and error, I think I'm finally there in these areas (praised be to God for helping to shine a light of peace on me) and I feel ready to get back to work, as a loving father and friend to my W. It may be extremely rocky while she tries to push me out (or moves out herself), but I think I'm up to the task. Wish me luck.
I'll wish you luck, but I have a difficult time applying that word to you and your sitch. Luck implies that it's a lottery, and you have absolutely no input to the final outcome.
Well, that may be true, but we both know that you can certainly do SOMETHING to make things better for yourself. That word would be "fortune".
I wish you fortunate success. The writing on the wall indicates that you WILL be successful, because you've figured out a path that works.
My bets are on you, friend! Sometimes being a best friend means sitting out, being kind and being THERE. You've got them covered!
Hugs,
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I think your the new ICEMAN!!! Keep it up, your doing it right by not taking the bait. She is looking for reactions by doing and saying the things she does to set you off. Interesting she said you are trying to physiclly destoying her. Wouldnt she have meant mentally? 
I hope you are doing well with H. I only have a few moments so I'll check on your sitch tonight.