I have even heard the I regret getting married. I can understand how the WAW could say this especially since they are in so much pain and want the pain to stop. They try and rationalize and reason every which way on how they made a mistake initially and how it will be better if they do this.
She has also said we are fundamentally different (like mismatched). WE all KNOW that if we were so different in the first place, they would have never CHOSEN us. They CHOSE to marry us for who we are and how we made them feel at one point.
This is also the same W that has told me every day of my life ILY so much and what a lucky woman she was to have found me. The same one who would constantly give me her unconditional love. So I really do believe they are telling themselves this to justify what they are doing.
I also believe my W crying so much is a sign that she might be teetering on what to do. She may actually be questioning her decision. Then at other times the ice wall is thick as the berg that took down the Titanic.
Dear Merrick, Wow - I was so impressed when you decided to take on a DB attitude with all the info you learned about your W's perception! Can I say that again?? OK - Wow - I was so impressed with your DB approach!
Plus, your bit of detaching can be needed rest for the soul as well.
You seemed to be stay pretty steady as your W questioned you about attending the party. You didn't mention what you were best hoping for with tonight's party. I hope it went as well as it could have at this point.
Merrick, I am leaving for a few weeks. I would encourage you to trust the other DB coaches, as we all approach with the same solution focus. Or, you may schedule with me into the 3rd week in March.
Take care,
Laurie, Divorce Busting Coach Contact The Divorce Busting Center at 303-444-7004 or 800-664-2435 if you would like to schedule a telephone consultation with a DB Coach - or email virginia@divorcebusting.com for info.
KAW--Amazing thread and I appreciate your recent words of wisdom from Patakiville.
Laurie--thanks for the PMA boost.
W is out. I decided to stay home and let her go to her friend's party. It should have ended by now and I suspect she went out with OM after--but wtf--nothing I can do about it. I dove into the kids when I got home. Played checkers with D5, watched the Isles with S9, and helped D8 on computer.
W wondered why I didn't open letter from atty and I said it was probably a follow-up to drum up business, but I didn't open it before W went out (it was a copy of a bill).
One weird thing going on is that I have an appt tomorrow morning with a nun at our parish who heads our RCIA program. W was very cold to my decision to finally consider Catholicism so I pursued it at a Church in Manhattan near work. Unfortunately, my priest became ill in November and I'm not sure if he's ever coming back. I've been in Cathechism limbo since and our local priest spoke to the nun and she called me.
The problem is that John Nash knows the nun very well and is perceived as a faithful Catholic at church. W fears that I will convey a different story. In fact, tonight she said too bad I didn't pursue this when we had a real chance together (I just smiled). At some level, I don't want to do anything thta hurts W and is anti-DBing, but at the same time I don't feel that I can tell God to hang around until I get this straightened out. Indeed, faith has carried me through some of my worst days. Oh well, I'm going to bed. Any bets on when W will walk through the door??? Who cares?
I do like that attitude you had last night. Personally, I would have urged you to go to the party with W and enjoy yourself...if she wanted to mope the whole time she was there that would have been on her, no reason for yo to set aside your friendships to appease her social-image perceptions. If you felt good about your choice though then that is what is important and it sounds like you had an enjoyable evening with your kids
I truly admire your choice to convert your religion, that is a HUGE step for someone to take. Am I correct in guessing that this is in part to gain more common ground with your W? I hope that the majority of your decision is for yourself though. I had been caught up in something similar with my XH...only he tried to FORCE his religous choice on me. I resented that very much. I disagreed with many of his precepts but I never invalidated them nor negated his beliefs...he on the other hand said mine were just WRONG and blasphemous I think what made it particularly bad for me was that I did take his religion into consideration, I went to his church and I talked to his family and fellow parishoners in great length about their beliefs...it just wasn't for me. When I asked the same of him, not for conversion but for understanding, I was flat-out refused.
I guess what I am trying to say (I am a bit sleep deprived right now ) is that I hope this change is for all of the right reasons...I still carry that particular resentment around with me even though I know it isn't right for me to do so, I'd hate to think of anyone else feeling the same way.
Strange as this may sound...I think it is good that your W goes back and forth the way she does. I see it as a sign that she isn't as dead-set in her mind and heart as she thinks she is Just keep being patient and consistent in your DB'ing, in so doing you will prove to her that it isn't just a ploy or ruse (well it is kinda ) on your part
Hugz, Zoo
"If patience is worth anything, it must endure to the end of time. And a living faith will last in the midst of the blackest storm."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Merrick What are you doing over here? Did I miss something or is this some kind of sarcastic twist your throwing at me. I should move over here too. Piecing my good for crap life back together. Dont get me wrong, I like your enthusiasim but it seems a little premature to me. I suppose they dont have an area for sinking ships. Seems as though things are about the same as when I last was over. Sounds like your doing much better though. I can sense in your posts that your PMA is up. I hope you continue on this path. My deal is still the same. Im the king of darkness now. Im so dark I look like Darth Vader. I found out some really interesting things on my W that I cant share yet due to I think her and OM snooped and are on to my thread. Ya great... I will stay tuned now that I found you and try to keep you posted. I will keep you and Johnny Nash in my prayers as well as the little ones. KOFTGF God Bless, Eddy
Piecing is not just for when after you and your WAS reconcile. Peicing is for when you feel you have somewhat of a handle on basic DB and are ready to roll up your sleeves, dig in and get serious
Newcomers is an introductory phase, it is where you go for your first innoculations so to speak. You are encouraged in your first forays into DB, the board learns about your sitch, you figure board dynamics out etc.
A lto of people spend too much time in Newcomers unnecessarily because they have the wrong impression of Piecing
You also tend to get better vetern advice over here too.
If you feel you are ready to make the transition then by all means...get your butt over here
Hugz, Zoo
"If patience is worth anything, it must endure to the end of time. And a living faith will last in the midst of the blackest storm."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Quote: One weird thing going on is that I have an appt tomorrow morning with a nun at our parish who heads our RCIA program. W was very cold to my decision to finally consider Catholicism so I pursued it at a Church in Manhattan near work. Unfortunately, my priest became ill in November and I'm not sure if he's ever coming back. I've been in Cathechism limbo since and our local priest spoke to the nun and she called me.
The problem is that John Nash knows the nun very well and is perceived as a faithful Catholic at church. W fears that I will convey a different story. In fact, tonight she said too bad I didn't pursue this when we had a real chance together (I just smiled). At some level, I don't want to do anything thta hurts W and is anti-DBing, but at the same time I don't feel that I can tell God to hang around until I get this straightened out. Indeed, faith has carried me through some of my worst days. Oh well, I'm going to bed. Any bets on when W will walk through the door??? Who cares?
Merrick
Merrick,
I replied to your post in Underdog's thread about handling conversion during lent, so check that out. I went through RCIA a few years back and it has been one of the most amazing experiences of my life, especially as I was raised without any religious upbringing. I highly recommend the RCIA process.
I personally wouldn't worry about your W's perception or thoughts on it. You are doing this for yourself. Remember that God has to be you priority as anyone else here on earth can fail you. Put you faith in God and don't worry about your W.
If you have any questions about RCIA or your journey with this I would be more than happy to talk with you. Just let me know.
Take care and God bless you on your journey.
God Bless You,
Reuben
Cautiously hopeful and keeping the Momentum
What a day... A few replies first and perhaps my longest post ever.
B-It took a long time for me to get here. And as you'll see a lot, my stomach is still in a knot and I go through a good deal of conflict.
Eddy-Glad to hear you are well. As you'll see from my first post in Piecing, I've got a million pieces to put back together. And my M may be just like Humpty Dumpty after the fall, so there is no guarantee of success. Interesting that you noted a tronger presence of OM with your W. Perhaps more on that later.
Zoo-You make many valid points and I can only scratch the surface here with all the soul searching I've done on this conversion issue. I approached the clergy with a major concern that I was doing this for the wrong reasons. To their credit, they didn't push me, but offered me comfort. Today, I know I made the right decision because I don't feel I can go back. Indeed, one of my biggest concerns now in converting is having one of my first acts in the Church as seeking an annulment. Ugh.
Betsy- After you see below, your thoughts on a separation may be more valid than ever, but I think right now it would just feed the John Nash beast.
Reuben--I'll go over to Betsy's thread and hijack that. Thanks for looking in.
Now for some SERIOUS journaling. If I reached detachment--today was it with ALL CAPS.
W got back at 3:45 a.m. I heard her come in, but did not open my eyes. When she went to bed, she felt my face with her hand--I think because she was drunk and couldn't see. Who knows.
I woke up at 7:40 a.m. and she awokwe to say that the party went past 11:00 and she didn't notice how late it was. W added that I could check with my friend at the party on the timing. I may do that but it really doesn't matter. Personally, I thought she was with OM.
She also immediately pounced on the attorney letter and asked if it was about taking the kids away from her. I said it was just a bill, but then she said she was nervous because I was keeping a journal to document her unfitness? I said the journal was designed to help me cope with the situation and even added that I included bad stuff I did. Earlier, in poor DBing days I told her I started it to make sure I wasn't going crazy the way she remembered things. From this she talked again of her desire to separate and the need to agree on some things before she retained her lawyer at $5,000. I said I really hadn't thought about it too much, was waiting for her to do something and was taking one day at a time. W said she noticed how I had changed my R with the kids and was happy because she feared under the old R, they would never want to visit me when I left--but the new R makes her comfortable that they're willing to leave her. I didn't respoind to this. While it is true that I have greatly improved my interactions with my kids--to suggest what she did is complete lunacy--trust me on this because I spend tons of qulaity time with them. What has improved is my interaction with them when I don't like things. I'm far more patient and calm. Anyway, at this point, W was not happy about my reticence on moving, but I left for Church for my meeting. My PMA was pretty high.
I was upbeat at Church and after a 45 minute discussion (on may things--including sitch), the nun thought I was well on the right track and was welcoming me into the RCIA for formal conversion Easter 2005.
When I got back home, W asked what I discussed with nun and if it included her. I said just a little bit, but that I was now going to do RCIA in this parish. We then went back to the separation and W wanted to know how much I'd thought about where I'd live and how much I'd spend. Per DB Coach Laurie, I tried to buy some time by showing I was moving on. When I reiterated that I had not done much lately, W blew up. She said she was trying to be nice in giving me time before she pursued legal action, but I had just feigned that I was willing to leave and she had just wasted her time. She said she sacrficed her life for the M, but I didn't hold up my end of the bargain, so why was I keeping her trapped. Several times I tried to leave the room, and she did her, "There you go again, shutting me out. How do you expect any chance for us to reconcile if you leave now? (Nugget of hope or manipulation?--I tend to think the latter). She started asking me about my pro-marriage counseling (she was aware of DB from credit card bill) and how I could let some guru decide how to act without her hearing her side of the story. She also quesitoned why I would listen to a counselor over her (this comment is a hoot because Nash has refused counseling and only cares about what I talk about in my own meetings). Control anyone????
In any event, I said counseling is unique to every individual and I wouldn't go into the details of my sessions, other than to say it was important to get myself centered and take one day at a time.
W thought it was impossible to focus on one day at a time and that I must have thought of some things about moving. I said it was possible to take one day at a time and that it was working for me. But to assuage her somewhat and keep open the dialog, I said to the extent I have thought about it, it was whether I should go for a month, two months, or whatver and have the right to come back. John Nash replied, "What makes you think you have the right to decide to come home after two months." This last comment set off all my red flags and I said there's no sense talking about this until I see something concrete in terms of what she wants--because that's all that matters to her anyway. W pressed that Sep was necessary because our current sitch is destructive to the kids. In what could be considered poor DBing form, I said, there are lots of things that are destructive to the kids, but right now I'm happy with our current sitch and can keep myself happy. To which W predicatbly replied then it's up to me (Nash) to make myself happy--the same way you abandoned me before. Fortunately, I did not take the bait and left.
She then began sobbing heavily and called every one of her relatives to say I was keeping her trapped and was causing her and the kids' destruction.
In some respects, I felt bad in that while she was in turmoil, I was so detached I truly didn't care. Before, I would be stoic with walls, but had compassion. Today, it was, "Been there; done that; who gives a ---?"
Wait, the day gets better.
Later I took my girls to the park. S9 was to come, but he started screaming at D8 for taking the middle seat and then at me for telling him to get in the car. I brought him back in the house where he screamed to W that it was my fault for getting mad at him. W tells me that his reaction to me is a result of our sitch and she never has this problem with him. Apart from the highly quesionable truthfulness of her assessment, my second backslide of the day was to say, "Of course S9 is happy when someone lets him have his way." Anyway, me and the girls had a great time at the park.
Upon returning, W approaches me again and says I'm physically destroying her and is that what I want on my hands--to have the kids lose their mother?. She notes, interstingly, that this is something no doctor can help her with and the only answer is for me to leave and that's what gets us to a better place. She says she can't understand how my seeing the kids for just a few hours a day during the week is preventing me from just going someplace else--that the kids will adjust and won't miss me. W tries to soft pedal by saying, "I know you (Merrick) must think "Who the f*** is she to kick me out of my house etc. --which I think one of her relatives suggested would be my reaction. But she added, it's the only way out of our mess. I simply could not validate this crap and again left the room.
Now for the priceless part!!!
When W follows me downstairs, D5 asks her, "Mommy, do you love Daddy? Because sometimes we have a bad day and aren't nice to people and you aren't very nice to Daddy." W says we all have bad days that make us less friendly than usual. Then she looks at me and says this is what we're doing to the kids and teaching them. I'm thinking yeah, because your an a$$hole, I have to move and the kids grow up with a divorce? Just priceless--to me anyway. W then goes into her sarcastic routine of kissing me and saying all will be well because Merrick says we can decide to be happy. W backs off and adds that she thinks I'm taking glee in her destruction because then I'll get what I want--the kids and no more W.
A few very minor skirmishes after that, I cooked dinner for the kids and played with them and W has gone to bed.
This is nuts and I tend to think something has to give. My gut still says what I told the nun today, "Jesus says to love your wife the way He loves the Church." This thought kept me at bay many times today. Still, as I look back, W used similar tactics to manipulate me into moving back to NY, manipulate me into getting a vasectomy, and now she's trying to manipulate me into leaving. Right now, I feel I can be happy in this home with my kids and behave in a way that is loving to them. (Will I feel the same in 24 hours???). This is her decision. She can walk. Oh vey!!
So can I borrow your calm cool additude for tomorow when my hubby comes to visit our kids.I haven't seen him since he had me served three days before valentines.And then took a ten day trip to visit his ow in san diego.i'm going to try to be nice and calm.Even though it goes against my personality. Briget
The grass is always greener over the septic tank... Erma Bombeck
Treat hate with Love... DR. Martin Luther King
I think what made it particularly bad for me was that I did take his religion into consideration, I went to his church and I talked to his family and fellow parishoners in great length about their beliefs...it just wasn't for me. When I asked the same of him, not for conversion but for understanding, I was flat-out refused.
) is that I hope this change is for all of the right reasons...I still carry that particular resentment around with me even though I know it isn't right for me to do so, I'd hate to think of anyone else feeling the same way.
) on your part 
I suppose they dont have an area for sinking ships. Seems as though things are about the same as when I last was over. Sounds like your doing much better though. I can sense in your posts that your PMA is up. I hope you continue on this path. My deal is still the same. Im the king of darkness now. Im so dark I look like Darth Vader. I found out some really interesting things on my W that I cant share yet due to I think her and OM snooped and are on to my thread. Ya great... 
