MLC W Dates, Part V

[Wet]

[quote=Mach1] asks: “So....what exactly do you define as a happy ending ??"

Whoops, my use of that phrase was, um, shall we say a poor choice? Let’s say “ideal outcome” instead?

Ideal for who....you ? Her ???

Hi Mach 1, yes ideal for W, for the children, and for me. But only if we do the work. As you write later on, Divorce hurts everyone involved.

[quote=Mach1] Is it merely getting the results that you want ??

Yes, I desire my marriage to be saved, but please don’t make me feel bad about this. I think marriage is an important institution, and best for everyone involved if it is worked on. As MWD has made clear in DR, divorce is likely hurtful to everyone involved. I am not trying to “win” here, I am standing for my family.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad at all...

Why would you feel bad ?

And I can tell you that Divorce isn't "likely" hurtful to all...

Divorce IS hurtful to all involved...

So yes, I want my marriage to be saved, and I think we agree together that it is best for everyone involved.

Maybe you should ask T-deuce which version of himself he would choose ??

Well, he stood for his marriage and family for much longer than I can imagine. He has made clear that his time was well spent, working on himself. I just wish I was talented enough to play in a band, on this, I am envious.
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Personally, I think that admirable part of T2, is that while he started standing, just for his Marriage and Family. What he eventually stood for, was himself. To change things within himself, that would allow a new relationship to forge for the future....his future. And whether or not his current spouse was a part of that, was yet to be determined...

And he lived on Faith, that things would work out the way they were supposed to, not just the way he hoped it would.

And THAT allowed him to make the choices for himself, and his boys down the road...

Now THAT, is inspirational...

On this we also agree. On the likely event that I go thru a divorce, I hope I go thru it in a small proportion of how well T^2 handled it.

So, I am going to take you back to some seemingly basic questions here..

Do you Love her ???

I absolutely love my W. I am here on this board and using DB principals as best I can for the past 4 months. My withdrawing from contact with my W is the best way I can show love for both of us.

I realize that you are fairly new at this..

IF, she is MLC, at 4 months ? You can still smell the gunpowder from the starter's pistol....

Google....Chinese Bamboo Tree...

And let me know what you come up with there....

Yes, I have been DB'ing only for 4 months. But my W is going thru MLC for 2 years now. The 'Chinese Bamboo Tree' is a great reminder of the length of the process I am up against.

What does Love mean to YOU ( not counting your role within a relationship) ??

Love is a verb, not just a feeling in our hearts. Love involves a committed relationship. Love seeks the best for the other person’s needs and desires, while also respecting the other areas where there is not an agreement (not insisting on one’s own way). Love needs to have both people give and take for it to work in a committed relationship. Growth, making each other better people, and no matter the trial, having another person there with you are all of the benefits included with love. FWIW, this is not just marital love, I have this with a number of my male friends and family members also.

I read that too , Wet...

I wanna know how YOU describe it....

How do I describe 'Love", yes, commitment to the relationship is key, foundational, central to everything. What does the action of love look like? It is when my thoughts focus on the other's needs and desires before my own. I need to work on this.

What is the difference between Love and Obligation to you ??

Obligation is a duty that is owed. In love (excuse my flight of fancy here), while with love there is light and joy in the actions. When I give something to the person who is loved where it is something they would appreciate is enough to make my day, and causes me to want to do other things/actions that they would appreciate.

So, is there Love within Obligation ??

Obligation within Love ??

WHERE is that line for you ???

You stated that you loved your spouse, yet in your daily life, was there obligation more than love ?

Love more than obligation ?

I really do not view loving my W as involving any forced obligation. I think the problem that I did have when we were together is prioritizing my handling of my work with my W's desire for more money coming in. And with our home having gone thru foreclosure, she was ultimately proven right. I was too slow in seeing the need to make changes in my work situation.

I see your "judgement" on a couple levels here...

And that is why I keep asking you about it, and asking you to be aware of it.

Because I don't think that you see it, or maybe you do see it, and choose to ignore it (which is way worse)...

I think we are stepping into an area involving my faith. And central to my faith is Grace and Mercy, because I have been forgiven for so much, I am able to show Grace and Mercy to others. I accept that my W is in process, and on her own journey. I am giving her space not only to save me, but to let her grow into the woman that results for her choices.

I have only expressed any sort of judgmental attitude only one in the past 6 months of my M. And this is when before my surgery my W had told our d20 of her r with an OM. I expressed my “judgment” bc W’s actions were now hurting our children, I told her this was disrespectful to me, and that she was in an adulterous relationship, which should not be shared with our children. All other times I have been arm’s length friendly with her, PMA, and I’ve otherwise done no sort of pursuing.

I know that I have pointed out judgement from you on three occasions since you have been posting (all on your part IV thread), and I can go back and show them to you if you like...

So once again, I see judgement even in what you wrote above^^

You are standing on the Faith soapbox...

You say that you were forgiven through Grace and Mercy, and you say that you have shown Grace and Mercy, yet you did not mention that you showed any forgiveness....

Have you ???

Your words, at times, say that you are not judgmental, yet at several interactions with her, when you had the chance to show something new, you chose to show guilt and judgement towards her for her choices.

What also comes with that, is showing her that you are superior to her, just because your choices are different.

Are you superior to her ??

Why do you show that to her ???

An MLCer can smell judgement from a mile away...

I would guess that it is the thing that most of them fear the most....judgement for their actions.

Ouch! Yes, guilty, guilty, guilty. But until recently, my W has shown no fear of anyone judging her actions. She freely spoke to our two oldest daughters of the men she was seeing, and freely spoke of herself as being "single". So yes, I did actions to try and change my W's attitude on this - yes even being guilty of judging her, as you have pointed out.

But my W is pulling back on this. Over the last month, she is not being so open of what is going on in her private life. Which helps me to pull back so that I no longer feel the need to deal with my W. I am in process of not trying to deal with my W at all, except for our children. My s13's grades came in today, and he did well. So I shot W an email today thanking her for helping son do better at school.

What exactly, is YOUR prize here ???

I know the correct answer here is ME, I am the prize. But right now, my primary focus is my W, and helping her coming thru her MLC by using the most powerful weapon on Earth – prayer.

Well, that certainly is the textbook answer.

I am not convinced that God gets too involved with affairs of the heart. I think that he has given us free will, and that he puts things, people and situations in our lives that teach us the lessons that we need, not just the ones that we want....

So, I do believe that God gives exactly the problems that we need, in order to fix ourselves....

But that's just my take on things...

Thank you, and yes I agree with you that God gives us challenges to help us work on ourselves (I'm not sure I would say "fix ourselves"). Right now, I am working on my health. It's been almost a month since the surgery on my neck. My lung infection has come back, but I was able to quickly see the doctor, and now have medication to "fix" this problem. So I'm hoping I can do something fun and active this weekend with s13.