moving with confidence to success!

[rj2]

Hi everyone!

I am steadily increasing baby steps in my sitch and therefore taking the stride into Piecing, since I am "acting as if"- that I know I am a success and it's just a matter of time before my M will be too, right!? I have many good signs that can only get better in time. Just like tiny bud on a plant gradually blossoms into a flower. Seeing signs of spring every day now!

Here's a brief intro/summary and progress for my sitch
Backround:
Me 30
H 28
no kids, 2 cats
S 4 mo.
M 7yr
R 9yr
2-way WAS's, I moved out in Nov- pretty quick gained sanity and found DB in Nov
bomb talk time- 5 1/2 mo ago
H is still at our old apt and my name is still on the lease

Place in progress:
-I am lovingly detached, and warm/connecting to H when I interact w. him- giving him space and drawing him in!
-H and I are at the good friend level- we keep getting a little warmer to each other in convos/visits steadily as time goes on. He tells me a lot of things in his life. We are both kind and considerate to each other -I am all the time, sometimes he gets critical(but I ignore!)
-H calls me every couple days, we visit once a week - sometimes twice. I don't have to initiate calls!
-no OW, nor does H have any interest in one
-H decided he didn't want to have to sell his ring and is holding onto it
-H has referred to me as his "old lady" a couple times to others recently. H's friend told someone I was H's girlfriend as well.
-H's best friends still have a pic of us up on their fridge
-Most of our friends believe we belong together- and that H just needs time- positive energy!
-H has openly said he likes me, wants me in his life- has no probs with me-- just "doesnt want to be M to anyone right now"
-no threat of filing has ever occurred since bomb time- then we decided jointly this was a "trial S"

My take on this is that H is dealing with personal probs in his cave right now- he shares his feelings with me- he's depressed, unemployed- thinks it's too demanding to provide for a W and pets-- this can only pass in time when H gets job and more opportunities in his career(which are starting to come his way- H is a musician.....) H actually has a huge audition coming up late March which could really send his career soaring!! He seems to be "holding out" until then to deal with the direction his life is going more decidely..... Has mentioned feeling "free"- but I'm wise enough to know that is a stage- H is depressed mostly and I think he is starting to see his probs go with him everywhere he goes- now onto showing him more and more how wonderful it is to have me in his life, b/c I am a wonderful person!

Here are links to my threads in newcomers if anyone is interested to see details on how far I've come! Looking forward to meeting you all here in piecing!

new, separated, on the ride
optimism and strategy breed success

[TripleJ]

rj,

Welcome to Piecing!!!!!! You will get some great advice and support in this forum.

I am glad you have made the jump my friend. I am looking forward to the path of success you will take also. It seems my friends in newcomers are coming together again.

Keep up the PMA and the DBing!

Triple J

[rj2]

Thank you TripleJ! Glad to see you here too!
I think that having an optimistic attitude is the secret to success, for sure....

Question for the vets, to all those who are now living with their S's again. And particularly to any women who have H's who felt "tied down".... and initially had lost a closer connection in the M. What would you say was the technique that worked the best for you in the long run in drawing them back?

Was it

your appearance of moving on with out them

not initiating much contact, letting him come to you

your warm, unconditional friend-like behavior during contacts

your validation or acceptance of their anti-M statements

all of the above?

I think I do have the basics going, would love to hear from others though!

When I read DB, about LRT- this one point stands out:

"resist getting into any conversations about your R"
Ok- I never initiate any R convos, does this also mean when H does, to not get into it, too? Unless it's super serious, like I'm thinking of D papers or something, of course.......

oh, and a few more significant steps to add to my first post:
-we have ML twice during our S so far, both find each other attractive- no question there.
-H admitted to mutual friend earlier in our S that he still loves me, but this whole thing is "not about love" (good sign the feelings are there deep down)

[ChristineE]

Hi rj2,

Was it

your appearance of moving on with out them

not initiating much contact, letting him come to you

your warm, unconditional friend-like behavior during contacts

your validation or acceptance of their anti-M statements

all of the above?

I guess you answered it "all of the above", but I want to add...do what works. You talk about not initiating contact. If that works, then keep it up. With my H, it was not the right thing. Michele says to monitor results. This is what is so great about Dbing. There is no cookie-cutter approach. It is individualized.

I do think that unconditional love and a great "as if" attitude is the key. There have to be no strings attached to any acts of kindness. You have to show love even when your H is acting crazy. He will appreciate it in the end.

As for the R conversations, I asked that question a number of times on my thread. Here's what I did. I NEVER EVER initiated R talk (frankly I was too terrified) and when he initiated, I shut my mouth (I visualized duct tape) and listened very carefully to what he was saying. I didn't become defensive of anything and I didn't try to convince him of anything with my words (very hard for me because I can be quite verbose). Usually, if I let him talk through his feelings, he would start to say things that were contradictory, but I never pointed them out to him. Many times I would just smile at him with all the love that I felt inside. I knew that he had to work things through on his own. I wasn't going to help him make the D decision. Sometimes I think that they want it to be a mutual decision, but I always expressed to H that I was hoping that we could work things out...even though I understood his decision to leave. I think this sent his head spinning every time I would say it. He knew I didn't want a D and yet I was willing to let him go. I think that he really wanted me to get mad and throw him out, but I didn't and, in the end, my understanding won him over.

Christine

[cruiserrg]

RJ2,

Glad to see you over here, I have lurked through your thread a time or two in newcomers.

What would you say was the technique that worked the best for you in the long run in drawing them back?

Was it

your appearance of moving on with out them

not initiating much contact, letting him come to you

your warm, unconditional friend-like behavior during contacts

your validation or acceptance of their anti-M statements

all of the above?

For me above all was being warm, friendly, and show my W the unconditional love I have for her. See for me I had to really look back to what my W had expressed to me early in the marriage that she was dissatisfied with, and what I wanted to change even if she never told me.

For me, I was the typical guy, I would be kinda selfish, lazy, and not open up much to my W. Basically I had become comfortable with our M, while I was loosing her. I never saw this until the bomb.

I made all the changes I saw I needed to do and 180'd on myself to improve me. I became the man she always wanted to be married to. So for me showing her my unconiditional love and my inner feelings about myself and our M.

R talks for me came when I saw the opprotunity for the topic (either brought up by my W or what was happening at the time). When she brought up R talks, I worked very hard to LISTEN (old me would defend, and interupt, and try to fix everything), and then replied with my feelings. I made a point not to say the "you shoulds", but rather "I feel". This helped draw my W out.

I think all of your staments above are good techniques, but like everyone says the importance is monitor what works. I have also found to work with the dynamics of the sitch also. For example, when I finally went dark my W initiated contact and specifically said it was hard to not hear from me and when I had to contact is was only business and in voicemail. I realized that it worked to draw her out a bit, but I also told her that I did this to give her the space and time she wanted. I told her that I still wanted our M to work and I wasn't moving on. So monitoring works, but also realize that the dynamics will change as will your techniques. Its kinda like boundries with WAS, we also have to push ours a bit once and a while when the sitch becomes more comfortable (basically see how close our WAS will let us come to them before our radar says you hit the boundry). Its kinda like being a Walk Toward Spouse.

Take care.

[rj2]

Thanks for the input Christine and Reuben!


Re: R talk.....

when he initiated, I shut my mouth (I visualized duct tape) and listened very carefully to what he was saying. I didn't become defensive of anything and I didn't try to convince him of anything with my words (very hard for me because I can be quite verbose). Usually, if I let him talk through his feelings, he would start to say things that were contradictory, but I never pointed them out to him. Many times I would just smile at him with all the love that I felt inside. I knew that he had to work things through on his own. I wasn't going to help him make the D decision. Sometimes I think that they want it to be a mutual decision, but I always expressed to H that I was hoping that we could work things out...even though I understood his decision to leave.

My H isn't a talker- which is where I get a little unsure- I never bring up R talk . What usually happens is H will drop a one sentence blanket statement, and then it's up to me how to respond. Two times in January, I expanded on his comments with interest and questions to get him to open up. So I learned more detail about his "anti-M" issues. I validated and then presented my point of view gently- showing how these things could be solved and how I of course would like to see things work out. After both talks, we ended up sleeping together.

Then in February, H has dropped single sentence comments 3 times and all I have done is validate in one sentence and don't expand at all..
H: "I think we're doing the right thing" (by S and eventual D) or "I don't want to be M to anyone right now"
Me: "I just want you to be happy"

H:feeling sorry for himself "I'm working on a D"
Me: "that's really up to you" in a nice, sweet way-

So, if there is a next time that H says "I think we're doing the right thing" Should I just say "I understand how you feel" or "I just want you to be happy" and leave it at that? Or does anyone think I should expand the convo into a longer talk like I did twice in January? We did get to sleeping together that way(of course, H blew me off after both those times, but that was a better step than to just respond briefly and then act like a "friend"?) At this point, what do you think is key for me here? More generalized validation or getting into the specifics of why he doesn't want to be M again and validating that? Perhaps it won't sink in until I say the same things several times? H won't bring up specifics unless I ask a question. He is happy to leave it at one blanket statement and that will be all he says. Maybe both? Like if I have a short visit or phone convo where one of us has to go- then no- but if there is a longer span of time together than yes? Do I break down the wall by just accepting it or accepting it and giving love to each little brick..... Opinions?

[cruiserrg]

RJ2,

How did your H respond after you only validated with short answers? How was his manurisms and how was he toward you the next several days? Also, how was he several days after you worked to draw him out a bit which ended up ML?

We can only go by what you type here, but you will have to look at the big picture to see which worked and which didn't. I think you drawing him out some worked well as it turned into ML, which can be every emotional. If her were really upset by you talking more indepth I don't think it would have happened both times.

You may also want to think how you were in the R before the bomb, and see if it at all corrolates to you talking more indepth with him. I know in my case, I was somewhat guarded in my emotions with my W ans somewhat withdrawn. I needed to break that after the bomb, and talking more with her and explaining more of my emotions help draw her closer to me, as she was looking for that in our previous R.

Only you will know. Just remember to montior things for a while after a consistant DB technique (unless met with immediate anger or negative reaction). I think flip floping a lot would drive people away. Just my opinion, but what do I know.

[rj2]

Thank you for getting me thinking more, Reuben!
My sitch keeps getting warmer, which is good. Last night, H referred to himself as my husband! That word has not come out of his mouth in 5 months! My temporary apt lease ends in 2 months- hmmmm- am I shooting for moving back in with H then, you betcha...

I have been doing several things DBwise, nothing has really sent me backsliding. It's almost as if I can either choose to do the same, keep the steady slow train, or identify specifics and see if there is one or two things that get even greater results that I can do more and more of. And maybe get a little better increase in tempo. I'm definitely not going to go overboard, this is like fine tuning, I can tell... I've got that down pat.

Re: the R talks...
It 's interesting to eval what worked better- b/c on the one hand, after the extended R talks, we ML...... H was warm initially but then steadied off back to where he was(wasn't like it increased the speed of progress at the time)
And after my short validations and not extending the R comments into a talk- H appears to slowly warm week by week. I almost think none of this stuff can be isolated, b/c it works as a whole. I think I will have to follow my gut instinct- and hopefully R comments (by this I mean alien talk- anti-M comments, etc) won't come up much anyway!

Besides the usual DB of pulling away, acting wonderful to him/unconditional love...... my latest observation is that I have noticed the best progress in combining several strong techniques in one--which are perfect for my indiv sitch:
-I have gotten involved in some of H's interest areas, taking classes, meeting new people also involved in those interests and doing stuff with new people, having a great time!
So this one thing includes several techniques in one, like a super power move on my part or something, lol!
1-180 for me to be interested in things H tried to get me involved in before, but I made excuse in past
2-H has something to teach me and show me(reason for us to spend time) And calling to H's need to "provide" something for me that I in turn really enjoy and appreciate from him-common man/woman dynamic-
3-Getting my own life, H sees me out on my own doing great things and then meeting new people that teach me the interest too(even some new men, innocently of course-H feels a little jealous and curious!)
4-showing H how serious I am about the interests(activates H's LL of acts of service) also, Mars/Venus idea of men liking to bond through activites with others most.
5-speaks to H's anti-M issue that we had nothing in common anymore
6- new interests for ME to explore and enjoy, b/c I was honestly living them vicariously through H before. Helping me regain my sense of self, balance and happiness, seeing I CAN do these things. I am everything in the universe, we all are- there is nothing lost from ourselves. I think this has really been just about the most powerful for me in building confidence and self-esteem!

The interests are martial arts and guitar/music. So, now H is giving me weekly guitar lessons, and showing me martial art techniques. We have amazing convos - he has so much to show me... And he's even gone as far as borrowing a friend's vintage guitar for me to play, and clearing off space in his apt for us to practice martial arts techniques- borrowing me books on the subject, etc.

[renew4me]

rj2... thanks for the post over on my thread. You seem to be doing very well over here. I really like how you've gotten involved in things that interest him, things he wants to do with you. I think that's a great connection builder. Also, at least from your posts, you appear to have really great PMA. Consistent PMA has definitely been a key asset in most of the success stories I've seen.

Re: R talks, I don't think I've initiated any since I started DBing. When she brings OR up, I say very very little about how I feel unless she pushes me, and even then I'm careful that I'm not defending anything. I just try to give a polite and upbeat snapshot of how I feel. I've had the best luck if I'm primarily listening and validating and doing very little talking, except maybe to re-state something she's said on the occasion that I'm unsure what she means. If your H is less of a talker, I see no harm in making occasional use of re-stating. I think it helps them too--for them to hear what they just said come out of someone else's mouth, and have a chance to reflect on it.

[rj2]

Thanks for the post, renew! I agree, PMA can either make or break the sitch, and I'm choosing to MAKE my sitch happen! for sure.... And even better, increased confidence is a long lasting skill that will keep me happier throughout this amazing journey called life. I have grown so much throughout all this. Crisis is often the catalyst for change. I have approached other misfortunes in my life that way.. Deaths, health problems... Haven't mentioned this before, but a few years ago I was diagnosed with diabetes... that became the beginning of a spiritual journey for me, and now I have it under control better than ever, don't even need meds. This is the same, another event to help further my development. I have started to fill myself with love and joy, which expands to everyone else in my life. I have so much to offer, so do you, so do we all!