Is it too late?

[123Gwen]

I reread all the posts. MrBond - I apologize. I was confused and was responding to Cat04's post in regards to manipulation:

"I am a bit confused, because you said you want to remain married however you are pushing hard for a separation.

While I understand protecting yourself, from what you wrote, it seems to me that it is more of a manipulation tactic to keep him from filing for a divorce."

I would prefer not to pursue a formal separation but it is necessary in my sitch. Laws in 2 different states and being a SAHM mean that I must establish jurisdiction in case H files. Also H has cleared out 401k and wants to buy a new car. Separation establishes boundaries and keeps debt separate. I can't move forward until these issues addressed.

As for communication. H is very quiet. I think we both coped rather than communicated. Also I have been giving H space for the last 3 months knowing all the stress he has felt. I did not realize OW was an A but believed it was platonic. I supported his running. I gave her a going away lunch when she left the company. I was naive.

MrBond - I am sorry if you think I am being disrespectful. It is just that right now I am having to make decisions based on his present behavior.

[Mighty]

Hi Gwen! Sorry I haven't been around much... I have been feeling badly about that.

I just have to say that I think you are doing amazingly well. I do not think for a second that what you want to do is to be separated from your h. I also respect the fact that you are doing what you need to do to not let yourself be taken advantage of or taken to the cleaners.

Quite frankly, a person in mlc does not have good reasoning skills, from what I can see. They don't think about their actions and the consequences of their actions.

In a way, you could be protecting him, too! I was told early on here to protect myself and my kids. I have also read several times that you need to make sure you are legally set or at least know what is going on. There is not clear sign which tells us what will ultimately happen to our s, our m, or ourselves. So, protect yourself and don't feel badly about it. When it's said and done, where do you want to stand? It is not just about your r. It is about you too. If he never came back any you watched him take or destroy everything around you, do you feel like you would have done the right thing by standing by letting it happen? Doubt it.

Good for you, Gwen. You are strong, and hopefully your h will realize this and see what he is missing.

[123Gwen]

I have been practicing detachment.

I would love to text H to say to him that he is escalating everything because he is avoiding dealing with finances. I would love to try to reason with H to just negotiate a seperation agreement so he will have freedom and space.

It seems as if the majority of stories on these boards do not result in reconciling the M. Many have hopeful and happy endings but they don't seem to involve a return to being a loving, traditional couple. Especially those that are like my sitch - H moved out of state, OW, extreme avoidance, etc.

I am practicing detachment but right now it feels as if I have to take a hatchet to our old life to do that. H came in and dropped the bomb. Now I must clear away all the debris to have a clean slate and build again without him. That is detachment - we can try to dress it up behind psychobabble but it is truly a solo endeavor.

[cat04]

Qwen,

It is true that statistically most of the stories you read here don't end in a reconciliation. What we don't know about are the people who stop posting, or those that never actually start posting...

While the numbers don't look pretty, personally, I don't believe that you should let that deter you from whatever course of action you choose.

DB is good for rebuilding yourself and your life, whether that includes reconciliation or not.

You can learn things that will help you if you reconcile or if you don't.

I know that doesn't sound very encouraging right now, and I am sorry for that, but down the road, it will make more sense.

[GoatGal]

Gwen,

I can say that whether I stay married or not, the skills I have learned here have helped me in my interactions with everyone, and I believe I am a better person for it.

Hang in there and do this for you.
The process of DBing is important for you as a person in so many ways.

If you get to R, great. If not, then you will have a really good understanding of what it takes to have a terrific R in the future.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Here we are learning about relationships, ourselves, facing our flaws and identifying and building on our strengths.

We have to take the focus off our spouses because we can't control what they do, how they feel, and what the future holds.

We can, however, take charge of ourselves and face the uncertain road ahead with less fear and more confidence in our abilities.

After all, these circumstances are about as awful as it gets. If nothing else, this shows all of us that we are stronger than we think.
--------------------------------------------------------------

There is light at the end of the tunnel, but whether you end up in the Swiss Alps, the Australian Outback, or the middle of Hoboken is something you can't know.

DBing is like your set of luggage. It's empty right now, and here you're learning what you need to take with you on your journey.
And also what to leave behind because it weighs you down, doesn't fit any more (if, like most of us you've been on the Infidelity/MLC/WAS diet!), and what doesn't suit your newfound self.

Maybe you discover you want to wear tie-dye peasant dresses and gypsy shawls, or a tote around a Ukulele while trekking in fancy hiking boots.
For sure you'll bring your kids if you have them, and some friends and family members will want to travel with you. Not all of them do, unfortunately.

Maybe your spouse wants to come along, at least part of the way, or maybe you'll meet up at a scenic overlook somewhere down the road. Maybe you'll even set up a designated time and place to meet. So it's best to be prepared for that too.

You'll learn what to pack so you'll be able to enjoy the scenery wherever you might end up.

And know this: The scenery is going to be great if you can really SEE it.
---------------------------------------------------------------

You're still YOU. You still get to make your own happiness in this life and you are not "only" half of Mr. and Mrs.

I hear stories on both sides. People that save their marriages and those who move forward and find a new life.

I can tell you that in the end, whether or not you'll be happy is totally up to you.

As my friend, 45, who recently fell in love again with a great guy after her a$$hat of a husband betrayed her horribly, so happily said just last week:

"I thought I was done. That I was going to end up alone. But then... along came Mike. He is so much better for me than my H ever was. So--it's my happy ending!"


Oh, and her H who just had to throw her under the bus?

He's stuck in a R with a crazy, bi-polar, unemployed gold-digger and her brood of disrespectful kids. And he's bleeding money.

Nope. He's not "happy" and at this point, he knows what he lost.
A beautiful, caring, smart, vivacious woman who should have never wasted her time on him and his antics.

As for the new guy, Mike? We all know him and think he's the luckiest guy we know. He's stand-up, sweet, and clearly adores my friend.

And Mike, in contrast to her XH, can't believe his good fortune-- that this wonderful woman has fallen for him.
He values this R as the prize it really is, because he understands how rare it is to find someone like my friend.


DBing is for you. I hope you keep on posting and keep on busting!


---(G)GGG


PS: Whether or not you seek a separation is totally up to you. At some point you must preserve your sanity. I know for myself I could not stay under the same roof with my H after he filed, and with the lack of empathy he had for me. It was better for BOTH of us that we did not cohabit.

However, everyone's sitch is different. Pushing forward with legal proceedings can work either way. There is great advice on here, but it is not "one size fits all." You need to do what works for you, what fits with your values, and what best protects yourself, your well-being, and that of your family.

At some point, you need to do what's best for you, even if that's not what's best for the R.

Your H is a grown man. He'll either "get it" or he won't. You can't make him do it either way.

Just be sure your actions come from a place of reason and are well-thought out. Your goal should be self-preservation and peace, not punishment, fear, or avoidance. If you evaluate your actions from this stance, things will be clearer for you.

[Nitty]

It seems as if the majority of stories on these boards do not result in reconciling the M. Many have hopeful and happy endings but they don't seem to involve a return to being a loving, traditional couple. Especially those that are like my sitch - H moved out of state, OW, extreme avoidance, etc.

Look up 25yearsMLC's posts.

I think probably 99% of all male MLCs involve an OW. That's MHO. No need for anybody to argue with me as it's just my opinion, not claiming it's a fact. But I believe it.

Gwen, my heart goes out to you. Your situation is so very similar to mine. Friends warned me about OW, but I defended her, invited her to all our gatherings. Told her she was always welcome in our home. She would ask me about my illness and I would discuss it with her.

I kept myself fit and attractive. Ours was a loving marriage. We ML almost daily and it was good. But my H had five years of terrible life changes that included two deaths in his immediate family, a life-threatening illness (mine), a humiliating job change (due to my illness), a frightening diagnosis for him... the list goes on.

And it turns out that OW has spoiled many marriages. Her reputation at work is good for what she does, but she's also known for her many indiscretions. A wounded soul. That's what MLCers always find: wounded souls. They never find a better person than their LBS. No way. They only find worse.

I would've staked my life that my H would never have hurt me like he did. The pain of his betrayal was indescribable. I was happy as his W. I did not want any other life. Suddenly I was forced to embark on what I call "My Second Life."

You are here now, too. This is Your Second Life. And in this second life, you are alone, just as if you are a widow. You must protect yourself.

We LBS must look at the person who used to love us beyond all measure and understand that they will hurt us a lot more if we let them do it.

You filing for separation was the right thing to do. If he were to file in another state, you and your family probably would've suffered financially. You took the steps to take care of yourself and your family.

I came to understand that DBing is not about saving a marriage as much as it is about saving yourself. Sometimes saving yourself results in saving the marriage. Sometimes not. For a long time I used DB techniques as a way to get H back. When I started using them for me, to protect me, to build me back up, everything got better.

Was I still devastated at the loss of the love of my life? Yes. Sometimes I wished he had passed away, because I felt it would've been so much easier than dealing with this corpse that was walking around with a stranger inside.

All of us in this world suffers loss. That's another thing that helped me. I realized "I am not the only one to suffer like I am suffering. I am not alone."

Your pain at this devastating loss will lessen. Trust that it will. In the meantime, continue to take care of yourself. Treat your H like you would a friendly neighbor, or a brother, as someone having a hard time. Be sympathetic. Listen, validate and affirm.

AND continue to take care of yourself and your girls. Whatever you need to do legally, you do it. Not as a punishment, because you are not punishing him. You are living a new life now. Your second life. And you will do what you need to do to take care of yourself and your family.

You are building Your Second Life. It will be a good life, a great life, with or without him.

[CaliGuy]

Great Post Nitty!

Gwen I can only echo her comments. I could have easily written portions. My W and I met when I was 19, she was 18, I was inlove in 2 weeks, as far as I was concerned there was no one else in the world for me, I would be buried by this girl. Loved her with all of me ... then the BD MLC hit, I lost my father, took her for granted .. so many issues.

I came here late, up till finding this place I just thought W was Bi-Polar, fed up, possibly needed meds, even blamed it on the diet she has been on for the past 2 years. Turns out ... nope .. MLC and if there is a script for this, she follows it well. There was a point like Nitty .. I DB'd as a way to get her back, but slowly .. recently I realized DB'ing works on US, thats the secret, you need to find the person that was lost gradually over the years, that one who slowly became dependent on the WAS, change that person who hinged on every word and action .... not to get them back ... to get YOU back. I think its the hidden agenda, the result we all get from DB'ing. its more about saving us than it is saving the marriage ... and hey .. if during this restoration your marriage can some how be salvaged that's great and we all want that to happen ... but the MLC-ville we all live in to me resembles the Walking Dead series ... we all have our Zombies and we hope they return to become normal again .. in the mean time its dangerous to be close to them, we need to let them wander, get out of their tunnels allowing them to navigate their own way out, and in that time fix ourselves because lets face it ... We can only count on ourselves to get through this. Its up to us to become the person we have to be to survive this mess. If that investment means I get my wife and family back, great ... if not .. I know I will be a better person for it all. That's not just lip service, I truly believe it wholeheartedly.

[LoisB]

Wow. What great posts.

Gwen, you've been given gold here. I have nothing to add. Thinking about you and hope you are doing well.

Heather

[LoisB]

Now I must clear away all the debris to have a clean slate and build again without him. That is detachment - we can try to dress it up behind psychobabble but it is truly a solo endeavor.

I lied. I want to add this, written by you ^^^^^^

In my case, it helped to face the stark reality of each day. My H knows where to find me...even now. If he wants to find me, he is capable of doing so.

And, ironically, the more you throw yourself into YOU, the greater your chances of reconciling your marriage at some point. But, that can't be the hidden agenda behind your solo endeavor...inspire yourself with the better life waiting for you, with or without your H. There is a better life waiting. Really.

[123Gwen]

LoisB you are right - "I have been given gold."

Thank you all for the wisdom and encouragement. CaliGuy is spot on with MLCville being like the Walking Dead. You are looking for your H but he is a zombie and you can only save yourself.

It's just a lot to take in when the rest of the world is just moving along. I am grateful for that but I also realize well meaning friends and family just want you to get over it. They think H is the fool and this all went down over the summer so let's not dwell in the past. I am fairly good about staying positive but it is if he has become Voldemort.

Halloween is a huge deal for us. We dress up the house and go all out. The last two years we didn't do anything because H was "not in the mood" - I know now the transformation had begun. Anyway this year we got everything out and the girls and I had a blast. College girl came home because she just wanted to be here and relax. We had about 200 trick or treaters. The kids were saying we had the best house in the neighborhood.

I did drink too much last night after we ran out of candy. The past got to me and I learned that for awhile at least I need to stay away from alcohol on holidays. I am not a drinker but when I start on holidays I want to numb those feelings because it is all so raw.

So Halloween is a practice run for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Note to self - no drinking. D's will be with me as H only texts. H Voldemort zombie is literally in the desert with OW. I doubt he will insist on seeing his children and the fact is they really don't want to see him. I have no expectations so I am making fun plans to go see family. The girls are excited but I also told them we can change things if we need to adjust. Maybe I do have expectations or at least unrealistic wishes? LRT is really, really tough. Be prepared but GAL. So much irony in MLCville and one must remember it is a sister city to Crazyville and Irrationaland.

Thanks Mighty, Wonka,, Lois, Forever, Cat04, GoatGal and Nitty. It is so lonely sometimes even in a room full of people. DBusting is not for sissies!