I cannot accept that this is it.

[25yearsmlc]

First I want to pipe in about guys wanting their W to be a good mother. I think it's important, but it can cut both ways if guys feel like the kids are more important (or all important).

FTR, I only spoke to how we women feel about the fathers of our children (and maybe how we'd feel about step dads if applicable) but I said nothing about how men feel towards their women for mothering EXCEPT in response to someone. I have 5 brothers and a h and an adult son. All of THEM say it's "damn important" and in a moment of candor my h said that if was dating an OW and she wasn't "great with our kids, she'd be out the door."

My brothers seem to feel the same; and in at least 2 cases my brothers wanted to marry women who were good with their kids and that was THE priority as far as I could tell. Right nor wrong, that's how I saw them.

But it's hardly a random sample.

As for this sitch, trust 25, but be careful to read her words carefully about interacting with your W. remember, if it sounds like you are telling your W you've changed to get what YOU want it is controlling and pursuing. If you let her see that you've changed naturally it is better.

Gosh I hope this^^ is obvious. I stated more than once, NOT to ever discuss the changes, but to demonstrate them (in so many words)

(except to say that, "if you could do things all over again, there are lots of things you'd do differently",

--which I explained, & which is Not = to telling your w that you are "all better now, come home.") .

I hope you'll notice the same words in DB. I did not make them up, although I happen to strongly agree with them.

Especially with your history of separating and then not changing - but reconciling anyhow---yeah, you must walk the walk. NO talking the talk...okay?


Personally I let her see that I had realized the error of my ways, but didn't talk too much about my changes. She commented about those on her own not much later.

really get the point that this is ABOUT YOU, FOR YOU. In a perverse way you have no shot at a good relationship with you W until you can live without her.

this^^ is weirdly true.
You can't NEED her the way you seem to, to get her back long term.

Like her being your SOLE friend -- that is just way too much work to expect of one person.

It's like you are telling her "Hi, you are my mate, my co-parent and my bff and my lover, and my wife and a daughter in law to my parents, and my confidante-

and I don't have enough energy or time or knowhow to help enough with the kids so that is on you, too, but hey, "WE" have a lot of things to talk about

b/c my needs are still not all completely being met by all by You. So when can I tell you where you are failing?"

[color:#3333FF]You must make some friends. You have to see the value in others (as I wrote that line, it hit me that maybe you really do Not like most people, and therefore...what? YOU don't have to be like the rest of us and "get along"? I think you have to do just that).
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Sorry, there is no chance you can avoid the entire grieving process if you play your cards right. That's the 'bargaining' phase of acceptance. That's why it's so important to focus on you. The more you focus on you the better you'll feel. The more you focus on her the worse you'll feel.

Last point (i was going to post on my thread but maybe it's better here) is GAL. I had other critical 180s, and personally I thought GAL was overrated because I did a lot on my own before BD.

But I've learned GAL is about something more important and relevant to your sitch- it is about you meetin your own needs. 25 said this, and it is so right. The more you meet your own needs the more you can do all of this: focus on you, let go of her, demonstrate change, and be a confident man she can admire. I'm assuming you have some fears/discomforts about having friends as that is unusual. Maybe start with a councelors to get help for that. Or another approach is to start in an area you are comfortable (if you are great at chess join a chess club so you have something in common and have a reason to feel confident).

Lots of advice, probably overwhelming. But make sure to follow sandis and 25's rules when you're interacting with W, and for when you're on your own take small daily steps. This isn't about your W anymore. It's a path you'll be on for you for the rest of our life. Welcome aboard, good luck, and may you find comfort soon.

AMEN!!! ^^^