I cannot accept that this is it.

[25yearsmlc]

Dear Billman,

First off, you are in a great place now, but admittedly for a lousy reason. I'm sorry you are in pain but most or all of us have been there.
There will be a LOT of advice coming your way. Post frequently but in short posts at first, to generate more replies. (And if you can make your paragraphs shorter they are easier to read, fyi).

Here are a FEW Basics.

You NEED TO READ the book(s) that form the basis of this site. You really do. That is partly b/c our approach is radically different from many, although really simple. In short, We believe in doing what HELPS the relationship and NOT doing (or doing a Lot Less of) what hurts it.

Yeah, it seems obvious. But believe us when we say, it's NOT always that way.

A lot of marriage advice spends a ton of time on the past and that MIGHT be useful with a therapist but I find that staring at the past can keep you stuck and it definitely keeps your focus off of YOU and you are the only person you control. That statement is so important for you to fully process and digest, I'll repeat it.

YOU are the only person you control so your focus has to be on what YOU CAN DO and NOT on what she is doing or why she is doing this, except as it relates to you. Okay?

Also, many of us have "scorecards" and those do not belong in a marriage. But I can already sense you have one such thing by your post, but remember how your vows might have included the part about "love does not keep a record of wrongs",--keep that in mind. Yet a lot of us do keep such a record...

Thing is, scorecards never ever help a marriage. They are always destructive. They foster resentment, and they hinder forgiveness. (Besides, our spouses have their own scorecards --- and trust me, on theirs, we are not winning!)

Second, the book Divorce Busting, and its' sequel, Divorce Remedy, explain the terms and concepts we use here.

So just coming here and reading and posting will NOT do for you, what reading the books AND posting here will.

Plus, frankly, it seems a tad lazy to post here and tell folks your problems, only to refuse to read a stinking book. I mean, that's not your issue at this point, I'm just warning you of how it comes across when it happens.

So let's have a look at your situation...but no matter what, remember this:
THERE IS HOPE.

I gave my marriage a "10% chance of success" in 2006....so there you go.

I do not know where to begin, so I will be short and answer questions to elaborate.

We were together 12 1/2 years. this past Oct 14th was our ten year anniversary. Just before we got married I was socially involved with another woman, but had no plans to cheat. I stupidly got drunk (first and last time ever) and the OW took advantage while I was passed out. My wife always believed that I was unfaithful due to circumstance regardless of my intention. I have no way to prove save for the OW admits the situation.

To re-cap and be clear, this "event" with a woman you dated, occurred prior to the marriage? And you blame the other woman for it, correct? And this festered for a decade?

And you say/imply that you were not unfaithful. Yet you also say that the OW "took advantage" of you, when you were drunk. Well...drunk or not, did you have sex or not? IF you can recall it, then it happened. IF you cannot recall it, then you don't know. IS that about accurate?

Did you out and out apologize, or did you get mad at your wife for bringing it up, or what? Because for one event, which occurred prior to the marriage, to still bother her, is unusual and odd.

How did she find out about it anyhow? Was there other deceit involved?


For the remaining time, every 2 years or so, she emotionally cheated on me,

Explain this accusation^^^, and explain why you phrase it this way.^^^ Are you connecting the trust issues with her choices and what does "emotional cheating" mean, to YOU?

and I forgave her each time and we healed (so we thought).

How did you forgive her? How did you show that? I ask b/c you bring it up with a timeline on it ("every 2 years") so you clearly still think about it. Did you throw it in her face ever, or hold it over her head, or what?

Why did you think you had healed? And why did you believe SHE had healed?
How did that supposedly happen?

And did you really truly believe that her "emotional" cheating, whatever that means, is related solely to an event 10 years ago, and which you do not really feel responsible for?

Are you certain Nothing else could be bothering her??

3.5 years ago was the first mention of D. She was of course seeing another,

What do you mean by "she was of course" and "seeing another"?? Was she having an affair? Why do you say that and how do you know?

and the first time that I know of that it was physical but not too far (as far as I know).

about 2 months after this situation we got back together and she was So happy

I am confused. 2 months after WHAT situation? Can you give me a thumb nail sketch of timelines here?

Like how long were you married before an actual affair (or define what you mean by "emotionally cheating") happened -- and how it was handled by YOU. How was it handled by her?

We bought a home and were getting on with life. But we never resolved or fixed the issues that caused the initial break.


What do you mean by "initial break",--(did you separate before?)

and What issues do YOU think caused that? This is VERY important.

Then i lost my job and life and credit went to hell.

I assume you realize that the underlying problems which existed before the stress of losing a job, are fundamentally & chronically going to sabotage your marriage.

There is a major lack of trust going both ways. WHY do you think that is?


And once again she was already confiding in another man about the beginning of this year (2014). But i did not know at this point.

1) why would she "again" confide in another man? When she would tell you problems she had, or when her feelings for you or the Marriage foundered, how did you react?
Were you supportive and reflective, but confident, or did you freak out on her? DIG DEEP...

2) How did you learn that she was confiding in another man?


I knew she was unhappy so at the end of august she offered the D again. This time, I did not expect it at all, she said she wouldn't leave me. I of course made all the mistakes of asking her not to leave, the crying the anger and the guilt trips.

Why did you think back then, that she was unhappy? What did she SAY to you? When you say she "offered the D again", it is a strange way to say that.

Do You mean she "threatened" or said she "wanted" a divorce - OR DID YOU Bring it up first?

So at this point, ^^ to your face, she said she'd stay - but she did not really want to, and so to keep peace with you, she pretended to concede and said she'd stick around? Is that about how you see it now?

About 3 weeks after all this drama, i tried to compose but failed,


Sorry to ask, but I need clarity so I can make suggestions, and this ^^ is vague to me. '
What do you mean when you say you "tried to compose but failed"?

Did she ask you to move out?

i moved with my mother - 2 blocks away.



TO HER, she probably felt that you were now separated.
As much as you hate this fact, but as often as it happens around here, the thing is, A LOT of WASs feel that once they have "Declared" their intent/desire to divorce they are free,

and then if there is an actual separation -- they are "practically single"...especially if there are no children.

But the thing is, even if you say or believe she's "wrong" to do that, so what?

What matters is how SHE sees it, and you condemning her will NOT help YOU....okay?

Immediately she changed the locks, selling stuff, and moving on with life. We were talking and I thought for awhile i was getting through.

meaning, what?

Then one morning i found out from a stranger I was talking to, that her and the OM were intimate. I broke.

I'm sure you were very hurt. But geez, that is a VERY WEIRD thing to learn from a stranger?!! HOW on earth did THEY KNOW she and the OM had been intimate? Why would they TELL YOU??? OMG....(Sheesh, I must live in the most normal boring neighborhood.)

But you know, it hurt you b/c She seemed to be moving on so fast, but possibly to HER, she had begun moving on long before.

I'm not defending that, just observing it as a possibility.

Later that same day while she was not home, I went into the home that was ours by using the sliding door in he basement (due to the locks). My intent was to cry in the home and I missed what was my life.

Sorry but I don't get what^^ that means. You wanted to "cry in the house"??

Can you explain what your GOAL was in doing that? Around here it's crucial to keep your eye on your goal. In all you do or say, ask yourself if you'll get yourself closer or farther from the goal....then act/speak. But not before.

(I used to want to ream my h for the lousy things he was doing, until my DB friend asked me what my goal was AND what I was expecting my husband to "do with that"...and that stopped me in my tracks more than once. She made me realize I was just pushing him farther away.)

I don't want to hurt you more than you already are, but you need to know That is not an appealing thing to do.

(Sorry, but No woman would be impressed or turned on by that.)

Isn't it more likely you were just snooping? Hey, you sure would not be the first! But you have to admit it.


I ended up in our room, and his cologne was still on the bed from that night.

Oh man, you were really getting into the bed and sniffing around for some PAIN...

SO No more self inflicted injuries, okay? You have enough pain, no need to add or seek out more.

I took the sheets outside and planned to trash them, and then at that moment decided to burn them.
On Sunday the 28th she got a protective order while she was out, came home to see the sheets (which i burned b4 the order) and called in a violation. I was arrested and in jail for 9 days. The order stands until the 27 of this month. I have not had contact with her in any way in any direction since that Sunday (29th sept). I missed her birthday on the 7th and our 10 year anniversary on the 14th, and I know she is still seeing the OM.

Well you NEED TO KNOW that behavior like that is frightening to most people. You may love her but to most of the world, actions like that are not rational, which you admit (below). That is frightening.

Women are usually not as physically strong as men, and it scares the heck out of us when our men "lose their sh$#"... We are often the targets of where their tempers land...


I have generalized anxiety and that makes me prone to irrational decision making - that with a broken basket case of a heart is not helping me.
I am torn between waiting for this affair to end so that I might have a chance, or just leaving this entire situation alone.

I love that woman, and tried to give her the world. I do not know yet what went wrong, or what makes him so much better. And I am not sure how to find the strength to keep going.

3 things are jumping at me right at the moment.

1) You probably DO know what went wrong, or a lot of it. Read this post again and dig deep. The people who benefit the most from this ordeal are the ones who bravely look within, and CHANGE THEIR LIVES.

I did, and so have others. By becoming the best man YOU, Billman can become, you will become a better partner for your wife (or whomever).

So figure out your role in this and start owning that part, which means working on NOT having those flaws.

What would your wife SAY went wrong in the marriage, if she were here?

Start by looking at her complaints and see which, if any, are valid.

What of those things would YOU Like to change yourself? Begin there...

2) You need some professional help with your anxiety and your depression and thoughts of harming yourself.

You are NOT the first person to need help. (I DID.) And most of us went to see a about 1, 2 or 5 therapists, counselors, marriage counselors, Div Busting Coaches, shrinks, MD's for sleep aids, anti depressants, anti anxiety meds, THE WHOLE shebang. Welcome to the club!

Avail yourself of the many resources our society has. That's what they are here for.
That's part of how you'll go on and improve your life and for now, it's how you GO ON LIVING.

3) Finally, dig deep into your spiritual life and figure out where you stand on that. I'm not preaching to you.

But IF you are a believer in God or a higher power or force of love in the universe, GET CLOSER to him/that. It can really help and clarify things. IF not, get your closest friend or family member. Connect and lean and come here too.

Come here and post and see what has helped others. This is a great resource.

If I went back in time to 2006 and could only talk to one person and do only one thing, I'd re-hire my DB coach and come here and post. I had a great MC too, but if I had to choose just one, it'd be my DB coach. And posting here gets you some great feedback from people who are rooting for you but also will tell you the real deal too.

For now, you have to GO DARK with your wife. No pursuit, of course b/c of the law AND b/c you are here trying to show her the NEW you.

You must GAL (= Get A Life) --the book explains how vital it is to GET A LIFE b/c it helps you do many important things.

Like DETACH, b/c you need to protect yourself and you need to get some distance and objectivity -and you can't when you are all mired in obsessing about where she is and what she is doing/thinking/feeling. PLUS YOU HAVE TO DETACH to show you are not crazy or dangerous to her. Getting A Life helps you Not obsess..

You don't want to come off as the "crazy ex". NOT attractive, NOT helpful, and not who you really are anyhow.

She fell in love with you once. What were you like then? Let's hear about who that guy was, and go find him, okay?

I'll post more later, after you flesh out the details here.

Good luck, don't give up and fill us in. Hang in there, you are not alone and this is not hopeless.

Besides, a divorce is just a piece of paper. I have had 2 family members divorce and later remarry their former spouses. It's not my idea of a plan but hey, it happens.

IN their cases they ALL got help and made big changes in themselves, and I am not even sure they planned on reconciling. They were apart for a few years, (5 years in one case). They got better TOOLS for life and the curve balls we get thrown at us, so they were really happier the second time around


For now you have a lot of homework. Keep posting and keep on keeping on!