Gogofo - Piecing with the W

[gogofo]

So I came back from a hunting trip and before I left things were feeling up and down.

The W and I had a talk last night and she is feeling the same way she was feeling last year before our S, or similar to it. What I don't understand is that these feelings seem to be from mostly internal talks she has had with herself.

The changes I have shown bring up feelings in her of anger because they were not done previously when things were bad. She feels that I am changing just to change for her and that I would soon regret who I had to become to be with her. The new me is has her feeling angry that it was not the old me when she just would have took the littlest of improvements.

It is also close to her BD when I told her "I would never change", last Thanksgiving, and I think it is bringing up fears in her that she feels we have not progressed. She seems like she is hurting pretty badly, but things with us have been better than a year ago. I seems she is frustrated by the "two steps forward, ten steps back" as she called it. I see it as two or three forward and one back, but the perspective also goes along with how we are currently feeling.

She talked about not wanting to "compromise" and when she uses that word she uses as having to give something up. Her analogy was she can have either a glass of red wine or a glass of water, but when she thinks of us together it would be like mixing the two together. She said she would rather have wine or water, not the mixture, and she is viewing us as the mixture. I said that my perspective is that we both have wine and together there would be more to go around.

The last week in September when she asked me to move in she also wrote me a note in a card saying how we had both grown in the last year, for the better, and how she knows we can work through any problems that we face.

Now two weeks later we hit a backslide last week and she is now feeling like we are back to where we were a year ago.

I understand her fears and her feelings, but now I think she is not looking at our current state and when she does she is doing some score keeping and not moving "from this day forward."

She asked me to move my stuff out, which I kind of agree may be good right now, may still be premature to live together. We got a little carried away when talking about our lives and started talking about building a house and things like that which was a bad idea as we had only been living together for a week. But we both were enjoying the dreaming.

She said the people who get along well when we are alone or on vacation are fantasy people without kids or jobs, but when we get back to reality we don't work. My opinion is that those people are who we can be and how we really feel about each other, but we are having trouble translating that back to our regular lives.

She mentioned MC when we talked about her PA, I said I felt we did not need it at that point. I mentioned MC when she asked me to move in, she said she felt we did not need it. Last night I said we needed the skills to work through dealing with these bumps in the road. We need to figure it out or get help. She then echoed my denial for MC and then I echoed hers. She did not seem too open to it, but did not flat out refuse MC either.

We need the help and I will have to talk to her again about it.

She said that she thought the reconciliation would be easier and I agreed that I thought it would be too. I did not expect all the old feelings to come up again. I know this is what is causing her feelings right now, and she is feeling overwhelmed by the idea of dealing with it again.

Her schedule is so jam packed that she barely has time to breath. And then to try and work reconciliation into the mix seems like way too much for her and makes her feel that it is not worth the effort. She flat out asked me what does she get out of our relationship. She then ran through all the pros about not being with me which were things like not compromising, more free time because she get full days off from the kids and me, if we get rid of the house she could start to save money. She told me she doesn't want my money, she doesn't want any of our stuff, she sees her life as simpler and better; so what can I offer her? I responded that we could have the best life together, not just a good life. We could both feel completely in love and have an awesome relationship were we both felt fulfilled. She is big on pro and con lists and laying out the facts, but I don't think she is accounting for emotion.

I keep thinking about how much she told me that she really loves me and how in her card she said we could work through anything, but now she feels overwhelmed and it all looks bleak to her.

Is this hot and cold view towards the relationship common during piecing?

[labug]

Yes. I think it's true of any R but especially piecing.

There's a lot of fear there. Give her time, work on you.

What can you do to show(not tell) her that you are truly committed to the new you?

[gogofo]

What can you do to show(not tell) her that you are truly committed to the new you?

Listen to her and respect her and what she tells me she wants. She asked me to move out, I will move out again. She even said that she was going to move my stuff on Friday if I were still in the mountains.

I could also keep up with my self esteem and working on myself personally. I need to show her more affection.

I was reading "If he only knew" and realized where a big part of our issues is the bedroom is stemming from. She needed to make that loving emotional connection before we were physically intimate. I tried using sex to create that connection. Wrong.

One of the backslides we had was from sex. We were laying in bed talking and I was holding her while we talked and we both were enjoying it. She then started talking about her body honestly with the physical changes from child birth. I "thought" what would make her feel better was to know she was still sexually attractive so I put on a big show and we had sex and I kept changing it up and not listening to her and it just turned out bad. Maybe some of the worst sex we had, ever, no emotion in it at the end.

She told me she felt like a prostitute, that her opinion or feelings did not matter, that the cuddling and nice talk was just to get what I wanted. She said she feels like a commodity, that I only do things for my personal gain. She even expressed frustration when she wants quickies that I turn it into a big production, once again not listening to what she wants.

So that issue turned into a talk the next night where she revealed this to me. During the conversation I had been wanting to ask her what I had read in other books which was "what can I do to help you feel more in love." BIG MISTAKE. I take the question as being open and loving, she took it as "tell me the magic formula." She responded in tears and said "just work on you."

She was also uneasy that evening as she had sent me a text message with a diamond ring and a picture of it on her finger. We were joking around and I felt comfortable and said "geeze we have only been living together two weeks." She said this put it in perspective to her and would have upset her, but with the bad sex interaction it all came together as a big hurt.

So this spiraled down into me moving out again and her fearful feelings coming up.

I am having the same feelings of "how will she notice my changes if we are not together", but I know that she will.

What I really feel like doing is showing her the card she wrote and listing all of the great times and feelings and "I love you"s we shared. But I know this is just motivated out of fear and disappointment in the back slide.

If I did this it would not be listening and understanding and honoring and respecting her feelings, which she needs from me and I want to give her.

I know we can be great together and I know she felt this too, she just has to realize it herself. I know I cannot "make" her come to this conclusion on her own.

She also asked me last night if I wanted her? I asked for clarification and she asked if I wanted her or was just scared to move on, etc. I told her I thought about this and she gave me reasons to leave, we both did. But I know what I want and what I want is her and I to have a better relationship. She seemed to listen to me when I talked about us which was nice.

I think she needs a break to clear her head as she is stressed out with her schedule, she even showed it to me. It feels like she does not have time to put in the effort to "try" right now. The thought of her getting used to life without an "us" still scares me as it is my goal.

[gogofo]

I can't help but think the MC would give us the skills to rebuild an "us". I feel this so much so that I want to tell her that I want to go to MC when she is ready.

I just don't know if that is the right move now or not.

I was going to bring it up when we were on an upswing so it did not seem like I was grasping at straws when mentioning MC. I want it to help repair and strengthen us.

[gogofo]

Well I left work early today and made an appointment to see a councillor. I go in tomorrow at 9:00 and I am not sure what to expect. I think I will feel better just talking about my situation with someone instead of holding it in. Hopefully I can learn something about my self and regain some inner strength.

[gogofo]

I have been down today because tomorrow I had a date planned for the W and I, which she agreed to a week ago, that will not be going on. I want to ask her if she would like to go still, but DBing is making me think that I need to give her the space she requested and leave her alone. I was really excited too, and we really needed it.

[1foot2]

I think your realization regarding your bedroom dynamic is really significant. I'm sure it's frustrating that you can't demonstrate your new understanding of that dynamic (though the opportunity may present itself at some point ;), but you can probably still find a way to implement your new approach. As you seem to understand, I would pull back a bit here and try to implement these approaches of emotional support.

[1foot2]

Gogofo when I found your story and saw that out me signature info was so similar, I went back and reread every one of your threads. Our situation turns out to not be terribly similar (or dissimilar, is also mention), but I want you to know how valuable and inspiring I found your approach. Your dedication to this process is commendable, and you are benefiting from this process no matter the outcome.

[labug]

I have been down today because tomorrow I had a date planned for the W and I, which she agreed to a week ago, that will not be going on. I want to ask her if she would like to go still, but DBing is making me think that I need to give her the space she requested and leave her alone. I was really excited too, and we really needed it.

I think this more than anything is going to let your W know that you're serious about this. I wouldn't tell her, unless it comes up in conversation.

It takes courage to do what you're doing.

ed. I used the wrong quote, should have been the one about going to IC.

[gogofo]

So I went and talked to my IC and it felt good to have someone to let all of my feelings out to. I gave a quick background of where I was and what was going on in my marriage. He listened and asked some questions and offered some analysis on what was going on. He wants to see me in two weeks and I am excited to go.

When I returned home my W was there unloading some of my things she had packed up. I came in and she was surprised to see me because she assumed I was working. I told her that I had the day off but we didn't get a chance to talk about it the other night.

I said I would like to talk to her some time and she suggested her mom take the kids and we could talk now. I started by saying here is how things seem to be where they are from her asking me to move in two weeks ago. She agreed with my assessment of her feelings of stress and feeling overwhelmed and revisiting the pain of the past.

She is angry with me and all the pain from the past and how it is bubbling up again and hurting worse. Now my changes make her feel angry because she feels like everyone should clap and celebrate the new me when it is what she had done all along and she didn't receive any praise. We are having trouble trying to work through all the past pain.

I gave my version of our reconciliation history and how we were going great in the beginning. She was out of school, not taking classes, and my work load was low. We were communicating more and had time for each other and the family. The bumps in the road from the past relationship were small and we talked through them.

As we went along she started taking classes and work got busier, but we still were progressing decently. The bumps and setbacks were dealing with bigger issues and they hurt more, but we got through them.

Now she is way over committed with work and her classes and we barely have time for each other let alone working on reconciliation.

There are also a lot of triggers that are sources of pain and stress.

We were getting a bathroom remodeled to sell the house. This is a trigger because it took a long time but also she wanted it finished when we first moved in and now it looks beautiful and she will not be able to enjoy it. This triggers lots of pain and suffering.

We are coming up on her BD and the holidays and our anniversary which are triggers too.

I told her that I went to IC and she said good, work on yourself.

I mentioned that I would like us to attend MC together and she was overwhelmed and said that she doesn't have time to go. This I think is reflective of our situation right now. We don't have time to work on us and this is bringing up previous feelings and she is hurting and wants the pain to end.

She is rewriting our reconciliation history and is pretty much blowing off her feelings of this all working out as a false feeling due to riding a high off of our vacation to Vegas.

So now I don't know what to do. She said I don't listen to her so I am granting her wish and not pushing for us to be together again. I just don't know if I should go dark or not. I know she needs to feel zero pressure from me.

I cannot help but think that MC would do us wonders. I feel that we could understand each other and work through the issues we have. I think she needs to forgive me and doesn't know how. Most of the anger and pain she described to me was from before and she can't let it go.

So now I'm sitting here wondering and worrying about my future. I know I need to GAL but right now the pain has me just wanting to lay down. I went over to my parents house and sat there with my dad because I didn't want to be in the home alone.

At the end she also wanted to load up a freezer and take it. So I helped. Don't know if this was right or wrong, but I helped. What probably was wrong was I told her it felt like I was shoving a knife into my stomach by helping. I said I know she wants and needs the freezer but it was like self harm because I was helping her move out. I told her that I was not done, I won't quite and she is what I want. Then I said I hope we could talk in the future.

So my plan is to make the road back as smooth as possible and to support her feelings and wishes. I hope this will open the possibility to MC.