Newbie Errors- Restarting the R- part 2

[Bart42]

Starting a new topic as the old thread is full and my sitch is changing somewhat. Old thread here:

Newbie LRT Error- Part 1

In a nutshell, WAW wouldn't end the A, always denying it continued, but just had the blowout with the OM who wouldn't leave his GF, and now W wants to talk R.

So today's txt was "I want to move forward together" and I clearly have to figure out by the time I get home tomorrow how to handle this. So far my plan largely centers around Starky's "gee I don't know how I feel about that- I'm not sure" tact as I'm struggling with how to set/enforce my foundations for any R talk (NC, recognize prior deceit, transparency, etc.) without completely shutting down the R talk by pulling in all these other issues.

Any ideas or pointers to existing threads are greatly appreciated- I know I have to move slow and not seem eager to reconcile and let her pursue me, but I've been so focused on the GAL stages, I really don't yet have a handle on what are the best strategies for pre-piecing and restarting R talk.

[Starsky309]

Bart,

If you're going to tell her you have to think about it, then why do you have to have all of the answers right now?

Your position needs to be "As much as I'd love to reconcile, I'm afraid it's more complicated than that now. I need time to think about this." Anything more than that and your wife will forever put you as Plan B in her mind, waiting on a string like a puppy dog (ok, so I just mixed metaphors there, lol) if her Plan A other man doesn't work out.

I would just LISTEN beyond that. What you're looking for is some sort of self-awareness and introspection on the part of your wife as to WHY she saw this (having an A) as a solution to the problems the two of you were having. Otherwise, even if you DO get back together, you will forever be wondering "OK, so if the marriage goes less than perfectly again in the future, I have to worry about her cheating on me?"

At some point, you can ask her "How might you have handled things differently?", but I DO NOT THINK THIS IS THAT TIME. Right now, the message you want to send is "Wow, I might have really screwed the pooch with Bart this time. He seems to really still love me, but he's also not running back to me like I thought he would."

I'd welcome others' opinions as well, as I know you would. Especially the women.


Starsky

[shodan]

I am not a woman, but I agree with Starsky. I would let her talk. I think there may be a lot of value from hearing what she has to say. You will see if she is remorseful at all and whether or not she has a plan for R. As long as you don't seem overly eager, I think you can end that session of listening with "As much as I'd love to reconcile, I'm afraid it's more complicated than that now. I need time to think about this."

I definitely would not come home and seek her out to talk. Let her find you. Maybe be busy the first time, and even second time. If she wants to talk, she will make sure it happens.

[Bart42]

If you're going to tell her you have to think about it, then why do you have to have all of the answers right now?

It's not that I have to have all the answers, it's just that I see saying "I have To think about it" as mainly a delay tactic- I still need a game plan and I think that if I have my game plan mapped out it will help me in my tone and comments during the R conversation when she first raises it.

I can see her saying "what do you need to think about" and if I am vague it will come off as BS but if I am specific ("I need to think about whether given the history of deceit I feel I will ever be able to trust you in the way I need to in order to have a healthy marriage") we will be in major R talk and I won't have a plan.

[Starsky309]

Then when she says "What do you need to think about?" just say "Everything."

[pearlharbr]

"As much as I'd love to reconcile, I'm afraid it's more complicated than that now. I need time to think about this."

Yep, this is pretty much what I said. This was followed by my H (then exBF) telling me all the reasons why we should attempt reconciliation. After a couple days I told him that I wouldn't even consider it unless and until he was completely NC with OW. That meant sending a NC letter that I approved and having total transparency by giving me all passwords to all accounts. I also insisted that we have the financial settlement worked out and signed (since we weren't married that was the extent of the business end of the relationship).

And after that happened I told him that was a start but I still needed time. Because I did need time to sort out if I was willing to give him another chance. It wasn't a tactic.

[Bart42]

No real update- just journaling here. So I'm starting to wonder if W is ever going to raise the R talk or is just going to keep going with the status quo thinking I'll stay in limbo forever.

Its been two full days since I got home and no R talk by her at all- she's been pleasant, but raised nothing about us at all.

She spent Saturday morning and afternoon completely shut down- she slept through most of the morning, got up, vegged in front of the TV and then went back to bed until mid- afternoon, so it seems the depression/ mourning the loss of the OM is still there, so I'm hopeful that remains over.

I on the other hand spent a wonderful day out from 9 to 4 with the kids and we all came home happy and laughing over some inside jokes she didn't get, which made me feel a bit smug I must admit- she's gotta see we're doing just fine without her.

W then makes the effort to have her own fun with D (I read this is competing/feeling left out) and offers to play one of heir favorite games. I announce that I'm gonna run out for dinner (Saturday night) , put on a new outfit I just bought and head out. W calls cell 30 mins later asking where I am and where/what I'm eating and when I'll be home. I was vague. 20 more mins txt from daughter asking me to pick up dessert- no doubt at urging of W who used this a tactic to be sure I was coming home soon. I say sure but it will be a little late. Get home and W can't help but blurt out all sorts of questions designed to find out where I was and what I was up to. I deflected and changed the subject by talking to D instead. Childish, but I enjoyed watching W's discomfort.

So I know I'm supposted to wait for her to raise R, but the weekend is almost over and we have crazy work schedules that leave no time for talking during the week. Also I have a mediation date on the calendar for Friday (the appointment that stared the whole-"I'd like to think we won't need it" comment by her)- so I can't be silent as that is her status quo game, but simply pushing the mediation date by sending her a calendar invite is a bit d*ckish and will anger her more than anything. Think I will make an offhand comment at some point this afternoon to confirm the dates all work for her and see where that leads.

Detaching must be working- I'm begining to think I'll be OK if this doesn't work out and that unless she makes some big commitments to tranparency and the M I'm not going to want to reconcile.

[Bart42]

Well, even though there was no progress this weekend, there at least seems to be a change in attitude. Since W did not raise R talk over the weekend, I sent her an email to firm up the Mediation dates- her response was "I want to talk. I want to turn this mess that I caused around." Then she offered up tomorrow evening. Maybe she's actually ready to own her part of this- we will see.

Last week W's divorced sister lost custody of her kid to her ex-Husband (her D was 10 years ago), and the same week her sister also broke up with her long term boyfriend. Not mindreading, but I am betting that her sister's sitch may help drive W to see how lousy D life can be and do what she needs to do to save our M.

Off to practice my considerate, non-hardass listening mode for tomorrow's conversation- as long as she doesn't insist on "the A ended a long time ago" I think we will have a shot. Not planning on doing much talking, mostly listening and communicating Starsky's " I wish I could believe that and I need some time to think about it"

[shodan]

Bart

She has not provided any transparency, right? She just says that the A ended but she will provide no proof?

Shodan

[Bart42]

shodan, I haven't asked for transparency yet as there has been no R talk (or talk about her A ending either- starsky and sandi both say save the A talk for later). Its up to her to raise R and show recognition of the issues and that she has a plan to rebuild trust. If she does that my plan is to listen to what she has to say, then say "hmm, I'd like to think we can save this but I'm not sure- I can't spend the rest of my life not trusting the person I'm with and I'm not sure how we would get back to that place." Let that stew for a few days and then go back with the demands for transparency and NC.