too late?

[25yearsmlc]

Before you can save your M, you have to save yourself. You need to back off and leave her alone. Stop trying to plead you case to others. Detach from her and get professional help for yourself or you will continue to have this inadequacy issue (even new relationships). It will take al, your focus on yourself, which will be a good thing. Then, you can see if it's too late for the M.

What she said^^^.

[jim0987]

Thanks for taking the time to reply

To try and answer your Q's.

My W and I are both 33 (T 6yrs, M 3yrs). Our D is 3.5 and so wedding was about 6months after D was born. We both have decent jobs although I earn slightly more purely because I work full time.

I've ordered DB but its not arrived yet. I've read a lot of stuff on here and seen a few of the videos that go with it so picking up some bits. The only hesitation on the love languages book is that I have a stack of half a dozen books to work through.

I know a lot of things are about perception and until now I hadn't realised how my wife had seen things. For example when she was sad and upset I doubled my efforts to look after the kids thinking that I was covering for her but now I realise that she probably saw that as I'm not interested in why she is upset, and that when I didn't press her to talk about it she could easily have seen that as me not caring.

There's plenty about me not to like which I need to change but again the fact that I never truly believed that I was good enough for her is at the core of behaviours and comments that made me not good enough. Changing this is a big part of why I'm going to IC

180s that I think I need to do.
- ditch any comment that says she would prefer someone else (ditching the thoughts would be good to)
- talk only about the positive things from work.
- run
- Only talk about me when asked about me
- relax about the amount of time she spends messaging other people.
- relax about things that would usually frustrate me.
- be grateful for what I do get rather than anxious about what I miss
- do the laundry

Its a start but there is probably more

A couple of Qs where I'm not sure though:

I know I've done wrong - is there a good way to apologise or does this just highlight the negative?

I get the detaching but me seeming detached I think is part of the problem so I supposed I'm a bit confused that this would also be the solution?

How do I help her to see that I finally get what she has been trying to tell me when she is in a hostile, determined and avoidance mode?

[jim0987]

If I'm updating too much let me know. I find that putting my thoughts here is helping me to make sense of them.

W went away for the weekend to MILs with kids. I went and saw friends which was good but I couldn't stop thinking about my W and how sad I was because of what is happening and just still shocked at how much she has changed.

Anyway I got home a decided that to be the new me (which is a lot like the me she originally fell in love with) I would start doing things like the laundry, tidying old junk and some proper cooking. All good and I felt quite happy and relaxed.

W gets home and immediately blanks me. She then has a go because I started to help her unload her car and had changed all the sheets on the beds. I still can't deal with the level of hostility and its really difficult to try and do more positive things when she can't even look at me.

I don't know why I'm deluding myself that its not too late other than my desperate hope that its not. Still I did really like the fact that the first steps to new me are actually about finding the old me - the one from before 3 years of stress, rejection and tiredness.

[jim0987]

I should add that I do know that some of that stress and rejection was self inflicted because I wasn't meeting my W's emotional needs (and because I hurt her)

[25yearsmlc]

If I'm updating too much let me know. I find that putting my thoughts here is helping me to make sense of them.

W went away for the weekend to MILs with kids. I went and saw friends which was good but I couldn't stop thinking about my W

Then get a better activity that occupies your mind so you DO STOP thinking about her even if only for a few hours. I did a lot of community theater and boy, THAT forces you to get your mind OFF of your spouse for a bit.

AND I met some really FUN people in the cast, and learning lines and blocking (on stage) is so mind absorbing, for ME it was one of the best GAL activities I could do. I'll post a list of GAL things I did to help so you can see if any of them strikes you as appealing.

and how sad I was because of what is happening and just still shocked at how much she has changed.

Hard to know how much is change, or something you did not know about her earlier, and or what is a phase of behavior she's "trying out", but which she may reject later.

Anyway I got home a decided that to be the new me (which is a lot like the me she originally fell in love with) I would start doing things like the laundry, tidying old junk and some proper cooking. All good and I felt quite happy and relaxed.


GOOD....

W gets home and immediately blanks me.

I'm not familiar with this^^ term, "Blanks". Can you explain?

She then has a go because I started to help her unload her car and had changed all the sheets on the beds. I still can't deal with the level of hostility and its really difficult to try and do more positive things when she can't even look at me.
consider it a challenge you CAN meet. You are planting seeds and in a way that really probably bothers her. She wants you to fuel her anger so she can feel justified for wanting out but now you are meeting her anger with kindness. How frustrating for her!

Keep it up.

I don't know why I'm deluding myself that its not too late other than my desperate hope that its not.

B/c you have people like me, sandi and others who are telling you that WE thought our marriages were over too, and they were not.

In 2006, I told my sisters "I'd give my M a 10% chance of success"... and I meant it.


Still I did really like the fact that the first steps to new me are actually about finding the old me - the one from before 3 years of stress, rejection and tiredness.

Be the best Jim you can be. Get help for your insecurities b/c they are NOT helping you in any way, nor are the negative ways you see things. They do not serve your interests so you must change the way you see things.

Start by watching 2 TED TALKS. One is by Amy Cuddy, called "Faking it til you Become it" and it's about 20 minutes from the 2012 conference.

The other TED TALK was by Shawn Achor called "Power of Positive Psychology" and it's also about 20 minutes. Both speakers have empirical data that proves their theory about how what we THINK can change how we ACT and how we ACT can change how we FEEL INSIDE.

"outside in" or "inside out" behaviors and emotions. Instead of what some folks do, which is to "wait for the feelings to come first" and THEN DO something new...this shows the opposite, b/c love is at least partly a CHOICE. We can choose to DO things that help us FEEL things...just watch those videos on youtube and you'll see what I mean.

Behaving lovingly can create more loving emotions. There is more to it but see what you think.

[jim0987]

Thanks 25yearsmlc. I've also read some of the advice you've posted others and just want to say thanks for being on here to do that. I think you've helped a lot of people and you're certainly helping me.

I'll try and watch those TED talks today.

The anger is a big change in my W. Not something I've really seen from her before and certainly not directed at me. Its a really stark contrast to a few days before she told me IDLY and she's kept it up for 3 weeks now.

Id love to think that she is angry because on some level she still loves me and that being angry at me makes leaving easier. On the other hand i know her well enough to know that she is feeling trapped and that is something she has always raged against. Equally it might be that she is seeing changes and resents that I didn't make them sooner. Or a combination of all this and other stuff. Pointlessness of mind reading I guess.

Blanks = Intentionally ignoring but accompanied by hostile/aggresive body language to indicate that it is deliberate.

[jim0987]

Well another day and the anger is getting wouse.she seems convinced I'm a manipulative liar and that I'm trying to push her out the house when I'm actually desperate for her to stay.

I know that I've not been there for her in the way I should be but I've not lied to her. I really don't know what's best now. I'm desperate to talk to her about all of this but I know I shouldn't.

[jim0987]

I should say that apart from a moment when I broke down in tears. I've been doing my best to be friendly and helpful - she said I'm making her feel more depressed by being nice about it.

She is absolutely desperate to move out as quickly as possible

[Shakspr]

Jim: Don't mind-read; her reasons for saying and doing things they way that she is are multiple, layered, and possibly 100% smoke. Look up a term "Gaslighting" that Nitty taught me.

Get out of that house...frequently. If you aren't there, the time between aggravating and contentious interaction will grow. I think Caliguy called PMA, 180s, and GAL a "Triple threat" They work for a reason - because they work on you, and your W can't not see them, eventually.

[MrBond]

"Id love to think that she is angry because on some level she still loves me and that being angry at me makes leaving easier."

That's true to a point, but it shouldn't matter. Stop thinking about why she does or doesn't do something.

So far in your posts, I've seen how you "allow" your W to control your actions. Is this how you were when you first dated? Lose the fear and be the man you were before. No woman wants a guy they can control.