During an argument she said that she had been like 2 parents for him , and that I had never loved him . We clashed on driving him around picking him up dropping him off etc . My son became very lazy expecting lifts all the time to work and to football and to mates houses etc . She would drive him to places he could walk in 15 minutes and I wouldn't . I would expect him to walk especially to work .and he has a push bike which he is reluctant to use . And then arguments would be caused because he would ask for a lift and then if I didn't he wouldn't go out then my W would start going on about him not going out and having no friends and why I wouldn't just take him . This would always be to somewhere that you could walk in 15 to 20 minutes . Like I said he just become so lazy. I believe my W would try and run around for him as much as possible because she did so much running around for our daughters singing/dancing that she did almost every day of the week.
And I truly believed that running a 17 year old around is not doing him any favours regards initiative and looking after himself and doing things without his mum and dad driving him all over the place .
What has changed is that I will occasionally take him and pick him up but if I say I can't he either walks or rides his bike .
Personally I believe he was playing me of against my W all the time . He would ask his mum and if she said she couldn't then he would ask me .
It just caused so many problems .
With W leaving me and my son have grown closer and spend more time together I'm not sure why but I believe it's due to not having the pressure of W watching our every move and how we communicate .
Last edited by South74; 09/25/1409:09 PM.
Me 40 W 37 Together 22 years S18 D12 WaW 12/08/14 after affair exposed , suspected for several months W returned home for 2 weeks to see if can handle family life After the 2 weeks she has left .
"Personally I believe he was playing me of against my W all the time . He would ask his mum and if she said she couldn't then he would ask me ."
Really? You're blaming your son. This is is your W and your fault for not being able to communicate in a rationale fashion.
"With W leaving me and my son have grown closer and spend more time together I'm not sure why but I believe it's due to not having the pressure of W watching our every move and how we communicate . "
And you would be wrong. You've gotten closer because you have no choice. Your W isn't there so you two have no choice but to talk to each other. It's what you should have done while your W was there.
Surely this is not the only problem. What others were there?
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
The housework issue . She said that she would ask for help and I wouldn't I would be to tired . This is an issue due to me working shift work and working nights and getting up and not really helping out for the week when I did work nights .
What I failed to realise was that my W was finding it hard to keep on top of the house work with her new job and she could have done with my help .
Currently I have become a domestic goddess and even during the 2 weeks W came home she did comment on how she had never seen the house stay so tidy .
One thing that did come into my mind was that as a child myself and being the eldest of 5 I used to look after my brothers and sisters and do a lot of housework and cooking for them . This was because my mum and dad were very often down the pub.
The housework and looking after the kids is something I believe my WAW thought I would be a complete disaster at . She did say to my daughter just before she left the first time " give it a few weeks and dad will be begging me to come home"
I can understand that we me and the kids have had to become a good little team due to the circumstances . And we kept it going for the two weeks w was at home and nearly 2 weeks after she left again we are still keeping well on top of everything.
I just wish the W had told me how she felt about me being a lazy ba&@£)rd .
Last edited by South74; 09/25/1410:00 PM.
Me 40 W 37 Together 22 years S18 D12 WaW 12/08/14 after affair exposed , suspected for several months W returned home for 2 weeks to see if can handle family life After the 2 weeks she has left .
Ah but you seem to think b/c you feel a certain way, it absolves you. I have not heard you say "I was wrong to do X" or "I should have done y". I keep reading your explanations and they sound like justifications, so it sounds as if you see nothing amiss and that you really do not intend to change anything deep, or beyond the superficial, if she were to come back.
That's a problem and that was perhaps the "Test" you failed when she returned for those 2 weeks. What was really different beyond keeping the house more tidy? And when you did keep it cleaner, was it in a way that was to show her a thing or two, or b/c you lovingly wanted her to feel appreciated? I get the feeling you just wanted to compete and "Win", and not actually that you were trying to demonstrate concern for her.
Do you "hear" what I'm telling you? You do Not have to agree with me; I just want to know if you understand what I'm saying to you. Maybe you can recap, so I know that you do...okay?
The housework issue . She said that she would ask for help and I wouldn't I would be to tired . This is an issue due to me working shift work and working nights and getting up and not really helping out for the week when I did work nights . sounds as if you feel you had good reason to not help those times (and you didn't say anything about the other times) so why would she expect it to improve?
Seems to me the obvious answer, if you are working night shifts and are legitimately too tired to help with the house, is to hire a housecleaner. I know it reduced conflict in our home by 75% or more.
What I failed to realise was that my W was finding it hard to keep on top of the house work with her new job and she could have done with my help . Indeed. What did you think she meant when she would ask you for help? Did you blow it off as "wifely nagging" and what did you tell her then? Did you get tired of it and get angry at her for complaining? Many people do that, which really hurts the other person who was asking for help in a situation which mandated them getting help. So she was doubly mistreated, perhaps.
Currently I have become a domestic goddess and even during the 2 weeks W came home she did comment on how she had never seen the house stay so tidy . So the clean house was noticed and commented upon? Good. How are you holding up, physically? Is this something you could keep up doing or would you need to hire ouside help? I mean, if you are not working the night shifts, that's one thing,
But if you will again, then won't you be too tired to help, again? Maybe you need to do something for the house on a more permanent basis, like hiring a regular housekeeper for a weekly visit,
OR are you able to do the cleaning you are now doing with the present schedule?
IF so, then doesn't it mean you could have been doing it all along...(if so, you should tell her that, along with an apology for not "getting it" sooner). Nothing weak about an apology.
One thing that did come into my mind was that as a child myself and being the eldest of 5 I used to look after my brothers and sisters and do a lot of housework and cooking for them . This was because my mum and dad were very often down the pub.
^^^ That sounds burdensome and sad, to me. How did it make you feel then? Is it perhaps a reason you did NOT want to repeat that as an adult? In other words, you have some resistance to housecleaning, b/c you resented doing so much of your parents work, when you were only a child? And may I assume since they were at the pub, that they drank too much? The housework and looking after the kids is something I believe my WAW thought I would be a complete disaster at . Well, since you resisted doing any of it for so long, what else would she think? I mean, is it so hard to see why she'd feel that way??
She did say to my daughter just before she left the first time " give it a few weeks and dad will be begging me to come home"
I can understand that we me and the kids have had to become a good little team due to the circumstances . And we kept it going for the two weeks w was at home and nearly 2 weeks after she left again we are still keeping well on top of everything. I just wish the W had told me how she felt about me being a lazy ba&@£)rd .
Come on South...you think she had to TELL you "how she felt" about you being a "lazy #$@$)?"
IF ( IF! ) your wife felt that you were a "Lazy #$)#%#*, how do YOU THINK she "felt" about it? Happy? Romantically inclined?
Come on, GUESS! What would she have to say to get the point across to you, that she was not happy about it?
What would you expect her to feel, IF she thought you were a lazy ^#PP@#??
Passionate? Of course not.
No one is attracted to the image you NOW imagine she had of you. Earlier you glossed over her negative comments, but now you are suggesting she had a very low opinion of you.
I'm not sure either version is fair or accurate. But I bet you have some baggage from childhood about the housework being "dumped" on you, and she may also have some issues with it.
But I suggest you try NOT acting like that type of guy again. Become a man only a fool would leave.
Spend time with your son.
And in the future when you have disagreements about raising the kids, discuss them without the kids around.
Remember that - No WAW comes home to a marriage she left,
UNLESS she believes that marriage can be different/better than before.
Show her that it can be different/better than before. Not with words, but actions.
What can YOU DO to show her that?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
When you mentioned about keeping the house cleaner I did it to show her that I could do it and that she could live back in the house and not have all the pressures of the house work on her own . And one of the things I used to say when she would ask me for help was " our son is up stairs and hasn't been out of his room all day maybe he should help" And I realise that this would have caused issues regards my relationship with my son and W .
The more I think about this the more I'm realising that so many issues are around my relationship with my son and me , and the way she perceived how I was treating him . Maybe my past looking after my brothers and sisters , makes me want my son to help out more around the house and when he doesn't it causes me frustrations with him and then I get into a spiral of getting annoyed angry with him and then just shut of from communicating with him because his attitude is different to what I believe it should be .
Even know with W gone he still takes a lot of asking to do anything around the house .
An example is yesterday I was at work all day so when I went I asked him to Hoover up and empty the dishwasher . When I got home he hadn't done anything but made a mess , ok he had to go to college for a few hours . I ask him why and he said he went to bed when he got home and only just recently woke up. If W was at home this would have resulted in an argument with her defending him saying he is tired and me replying maybe he shouldn't have stayed up till gone midnight watching lost .
So what I did was I did it myself and just asked him if he could try and help out a bit more in the future .
W thinks he suffers from low self esteem and depression .
My son has got counselling next week and I really hope it helps him .
Me 40 W 37 Together 22 years S18 D12 WaW 12/08/14 after affair exposed , suspected for several months W returned home for 2 weeks to see if can handle family life After the 2 weeks she has left .
An example is yesterday I was at work all day so when I went I asked him to Hoover up and empty the dishwasher . When I got home he hadn't done anything but made a mess , ok he had to go to college for a few hours . I ask him why and he said he went to bed when he got home and only just recently woke up. If W was at home this would have resulted in an argument with her defending him saying he is tired and me replying maybe he shouldn't have stayed up till gone midnight watching lost .
South, did you give him a deadline? When I ask my teens to help around the house, I give them a deadline. As in, "I'll be home at 4:00. Please empty the dishwasher before I get home." If you leave it open, they will always intend to get to it later, but sometimes they don't.
Maybe you and W could agree on what's expected of the kids before a situation like this comes up. Seems like you expect a lot (so do I, not saying that's wrong), and she expects nothing. If you could agree on it ahead of time, then you wouldn't be in a position of being at odds in front of S. Of course I realize that might be hard right now......
An example is yesterday I was at work all day so when I went I asked him to Hoover up and empty the dishwasher . When I got home he hadn't done anything but made a mess , ok he had to go to college for a few hours . I ask him why and he said he went to bed when he got home and only just recently woke up. If W was at home this would have resulted in an argument with her defending him saying he is tired and me replying maybe he shouldn't have stayed up till gone midnight watching lost .
South, did you give him a deadline? When I ask my teens to help around the house, I give them a deadline. As in, "I'll be home at 4:00. Please empty the dishwasher before I get home." If you leave it open, they will always intend to get to it later, but sometimes they don't.
Maybe you and W could agree on what's expected of the kids before a situation like this comes up. Seems like you expect a lot (so do I, not saying that's wrong), and she expects nothing. If you could agree on it ahead of time, then you wouldn't be in a position of being at odds in front of S. Of course I realize that might be hard right now......
No I didn't give him a deadline . But thanks for that advice I will try that next time .
Just picked up daughter who had been into town with her mum for a Starbucks . And the W has bought her clothes but can't afford to give me the family allowance from last month. Ohh we'll She did ask daughter how I was coping with the housework and the clothes washing though . Daughter said she replied that I was doing really well .
I find myself feeling sad that she didn't ask how's your dad but I suppose that's to be expected.
Anyway taking daughter to town tonight for a light festival so will make sure we have a great time .
Me 40 W 37 Together 22 years S18 D12 WaW 12/08/14 after affair exposed , suspected for several months W returned home for 2 weeks to see if can handle family life After the 2 weeks she has left .
Every teenager I've raised (i'm only on my 3rd) and every niece or nephew of mine (and there are literally 27) was the same way or close to it, as your son is.
IF I recall correctly, our older d did things faster than the others, but what I most recall is our son and our youngest D - Not helping without being told SEVERAL times first, and often not even then.
No, It's not that they are "lying" when they promise to do X and then don't. I think they BELIEVE they "will get to it LATER" but then time passes and a distraction arises or then, oops, they didn't get to it.
My point is this is a normal problem of people that age, but the reaction from you and the way you two are handling it as parents, is NOT normal (or healthy). Sounds adversarial, as if You are not on the same team.
Plus, remember...your wife knows your son is around but she chose to ask You for some reason. Maybe she has a good reason.
Maybe she wants to do X with you, and not with your son, OR maybe she thinks he won't do a good enough job OR maybe it bothers her to see you not helping her when she also works outside the home, and you seem to be choosing not to help.
IF I were your wife (or son) I bet I'd be tempted to say "h/dad is a hypocrite. He doesn't do anything around the house, and when i/mom asks him to help out - the FIRST thing out of dad's mouth is him trying to get son/me to do it for him" I'm not saying that^^ is reality. I'm saying it may be their perspective. So don't play right into it.
Your wife's requests OF YOU, probably should be kept between you two, and separate from your requests of the kids. Seems like that would reduce SOME of these conflicts.
Of course at a deeper level I think there is more going on...don't you?
With YOUR son, at the age of 18, & still at home, do you think he has some depressive issues?
(BTW, Is he done with high school? What is his plan?)
Lately, you said your 17 y/o D is having physiological symptoms of panic attacks.
Since she has seen the damage those attacks can do if left untreated, (i.e. seeing your attacks, and the marriage issues & how many years you "checked out" of the marriage/family), etc
maybe that's making her more upset than she would be with "just" a simple diagnosis of panic attacks.
She knows what might be around the corner for her and she is really truly in a panic mode now... Wow, when you think about it, that's really being caught between a rock and a hard place.
Although the 5 Love Languages book is often recommended reading for people here, for their spouses, it probably would help to know other's love languages too. Do you give your son many "words of affirmation"? Maybe that's a love language of his, to receive love. Your thoughts?
What do you "know" about your son today? Can you describe him for us? The father son relationship is a big one in men's lives. How was your R with your dad?
Anyway, I hope you will try to see these interactions as opportunities for you to show your growth and changes...b/c the alternative to that feels pretty lousy.
So, back to YOU and your GAL and 180s...what's new?
Seriously, are you doing ANY new GAL things?
Are you meeting any new people, people who do Not know about your marital situation -- so you can have an evening free of trauma/drama?
I sure do recommend it. Keep on keeping on...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
"Ah but you seem to think b/c you feel a certain way, it absolves you. I have not heard you say "I was wrong to do X" or "I should have done y". I keep reading your explanations and they sound like justifications, so it sounds as if you see nothing amiss and that you really do not intend to change anything deep, or beyond the superficial, if she were to come back. "
Bingo.
Plus, your son acts the same as any teenager his age. There's nothing amiss about that.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
That's my problem I can't think why she checked out . She has told me that it was when she started her new job she made new friends and realised that there was more to life than having a family , she wanted to go out partying and meeting new men and having fun and a good time . Her mood/attitude changed about 6 months ago when she started going out drinking alcohol , something that neither of us have done for about 15 years. She had been out before but never drank.
I think a lot of what she has said is just to hurt me and let her leave , the amounts of times I would catch her with OM and forgive her seemed to really wind her up she would always say how could I keep forgiving her for the things she has done . I used to say because of how much I loved and cared for her .
Things like not having a joint bank account . I realise what an idiot I am but years ago I did apply but because she had a bad credit rating it as declined .
Not getting jobs done around the house , just damn right lazy ness . I have recently a few weeks ago replaced 2 windows that were broken over 5 years ago . I realise that I can't do everything myself and need to get a plumber in etc to do odd jobs because when I do them myself they take me forever and many trips to the DIY shop.
Not going out together as a couple . In the last few months we did start going out for meals and walks etc .
Getting angry and shouting and swearing at the simplest of things and also when something got broke or just broke blaming someone or trying to find out what happened .
Road rage shouting and swearing at other motorist . This is a strange one because I've changed but in recent months since W had started drinking she would be the one shouting and swearing at other motorists .
What I realise is she checked out along time ago. But I'm making changes.
I'm reading the book divorce busters but find myself tearing up all the time as I'm reading about how children are affected . I have to keep explaining to my S and D that mum doesn't realise what she has done is doing. D has been having trouble at school has been very emotional and getting upset . When my W asked her why my D replied because of what had happened at home , W then replied I don't understand I thought you would have been over me leaving by know . W left about 2 weeks ago!! D told me this and she was like I can't believe mum said that . So I gave her lots of hugs and we went out for what turned out to be a great evening . So hopefully she has forgotten what her mum said to her .
Me 40 W 37 Together 22 years S18 D12 WaW 12/08/14 after affair exposed , suspected for several months W returned home for 2 weeks to see if can handle family life After the 2 weeks she has left .
