too late?

[25yearsmlc]

Sorry for the length of this, but I included your post and went paragraph by paragraph so its a little shorter than it looks. Anyhow, here we go...

I really love her I'm just not sure I ever showed her in the right way. The 5 love languages might be worth checking.

If you are at all unsure if you showed her love in the right way, then the "Five Love Languages" is mandatory to read. I suggest it for ALL couples, not just ones who are here.

Once you have read the Div Busting book and or the Div Remedy book (those are the books that form the basis of this site's approach, and is foundational to read. You really HAVE to read the DB books to "get" what we preach here).

Have you read either of those?

If not, please start there, and then I'd go to the 'Five LL's' by Chapman, and then there are other books... but I'd need to know more about your to know which to suggest next.

For now, you have the DB book(s) to read and then the Five LL's, and we'll go from there when you are done, okay?


My 1st IC session is next week. These insecurities have done too much damage and I want them gone.

Sounds like you know one thing to start working on already. That's a good start.

Also, I hope your counselor is "Solution based", b/c we are here. That means in part that we don't keep harping about our childhood and how deficient our parents were, or a whole lot about the past. But that is still very important!

But HERE, we are trying to improve our marriages NOW and so, we focus mostly on doing what helps the relationship now, and doing none (or less) of what hurts it.

The analysis of why and how we all got here, is for other experts (maybe your IC??)
I know it sounds simple and it is, but it's still radically different from a lot of other approaches.

I figure knowng WHY we do something can be very helpful, but if that is all we do, i.e. understand it, and not change it, then the knowledge is wasted.

We must DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY to change. No more of the "same old" stuff.
But note, this changing does not always require understanding or why or how we got where we are;

For instance, sometimes it simply means we must "stop losing our tempers!", not keep wringing our hands and asking "why do we keep losing it?" Does that make sense?


Plenty of complaints she would make but not all of them fair. For example 'you never do the laundry but whenever I do she says I've done it wrong.

I think the main/core complaints she would have Would be:
- that she thinks I don't care about her problems (because Im quiet and concentrate on the practical)


No, not b/c you are "quiet and practical"....You yourself SAID in your posts that you have not given her emotional support, you were not supportive to her even when her father died. That's not a small thing. And that wasn't about you being too quiet or practical. Don't skimp or gloss over your errors or it'll take longer to work them out.

On this page of your thread you said you love her BUT "didn't know how to show her"...and "did not love her in the right way" and then you said the book on Five Love Languages "might be worth looking into"...to me that was such an ironic understatement.

OF course it's worth looking into! If I had written what you wrote about not knowing how to show my h that I love him, and a book was out there that deals with this exact topic, I'd have changed the screen on my computer to order the book online or I'd have gone to a store and gotten it, that day.

Your hesitation was interesting but also frustrating. What do you make of it?

Also, You admitted not being there for her in a dozen different ways, so I don't know why you are now saying it's b/c you are quiet. Or practical.

What does that even mean?


- that I make everything about me (which I realise I do)

so steer the talks back to the other person, even if your instincts are to "share" your perspective; it'll probably just look self centered. Take the "interviewer" perspective and begin asking others for THEIR thoughts or experiences and how THEY feel about something.
Don't start a sentence with "I/ME/MYSELF" unless directly asked...okay? Those are just ideas to help you focus on the other parties and not turn it inward to yourself.

- that I don't trust her (which I've never understood)


You mean you don't understand WHY you don't trust her -- OR you don't understand why she says you don't trust her?

From what I read, your insecurities are so great that you assume she would not be loyal to you, b/c you are not worthy of loyalty or fidelity...is that possible?

The ironic thing is, when we let fear direct our lives, we often bring about the very event we most fear into existence.

In other words, think of a super jealous insecure woman who constantly snoops on her husband's phone, or "surprises" him at work really just to check on him

or she doubts his reasons for being late from work, etc....So, when she outright accuses him of being with other women, he gets upset and tired of it.

But when she persists and his reassurances fall on deaf ears, it's possible that she gets MORE possessive and a tad more crazy, and a lot harder to be around...

so she in effect pushes him into the arms of OW...and then He might say "See! I was right to be jealous!" But in reality he was the CAUSE of her infidelity, not the victim of it. Do you see that?

Don't let fear dictate how you'll live, b/c the best you can ever achieve then, is less fear but no real happiness. Plus fear is a huge barrier to giving and receiving love. I think you can attest to that.


- that we always do things my way and do what I want. (I felt like we either did what sge wanted or agreed a compromise but it seems like she felt it was better to avoid the argument)


Fwiw, what matters most is NOT who is "right" but perception, and the willingness to change.

Her PERCEPTION is that you always get your way, perhaps b/c in her recall, she thinks of all the conflict avoidance she did to ease tension. Rather than going thru your marital history to "Count" who got what when, as if that's possible anyhow, instead focus on the time "from this day forward."

Good news here is that ^^^ this is sort of an easy 180, b/c times WILL arise when you two have to make choices.

So when she sees you compromising or giving in to her wants more, that will be clear. And in time, reciprocated.


- that when im in a bad mood I tend to make little sarcastic and unpleasant comments (I do this but I've always tried to control I guess I didn't do a good enough job)

So you take out your mood onto other people. "Always tried to control this"....well yes I should think so.

Try not to minimize this b/c what it translates to is that you can be a bully (like the guy who gets chewed out at work, and then kicks his dog at home)

and or, it can translate into you being a nasty guy with a mean & critical side to him. Either way, it's unfair to your loved ones.

Since you admit that you do this "but" you thought you controlled it, it's probably fair to say, "no" you did not control it b/c if you recognize it

and she says it happened,

chances are it did...and a lot more than you probably care to remember...

Actually looking at this list it makes me realise I must have been pretty horrible to be with.

Okay fair enough. Let's say it's ALL true, and you were a nasty piece of work to be around...let's say it is all completely true.

So is it hopeless? NO.

The GOOD NEWS is that you seem to have gotten here pretty much by yourself, which means you are NOT helpless in this. (B/C if she had a ton of flaws to work on, which you have zero control over, it'd be much harder to do. Do you get why?)

Your behaviors got you here, so YOUR NEW behaviors CAN get you out of it.

NEWSFLASH I'll write down here, what the worst possible thing to hear from a marriage counselor is, and it will shock you.

THE WORST thing a counselor could say to you is

"You have been a perfect partner and husband and father."......


Why and How is that so bad to hear?

B/C it would mean you're powerless to do anything b/c You are already perfect and yet, she left anyway.

There'd be Nothing for you to do...except fear/panic that you'll always be getting left behind,, b/c even when you were perfect, your woman chose to leave you...

but when you can sit and list the mistakes you made and recognize, then there IS hope.

You are NOT powerless b/c you can change you!

And you are the only person you can change. So figure out a list of 180s and begin those.

Then Begin to GAL too...have you read the books so I can know if the "jargon" we use will need more translation...? GAL means to Get A Life...

Let us know if you read the book, so we can figure out where to start with you but DO read those books if you have not already.

Also how old are you, the kids and your wife? And what are your finances like and your jobs and educational levels?
Are either or both of you religious and or do you believe in a higher power, or God or a positive force in the universe, or are you agnostic, or adamantly atheist?

And Why did you take so long to get married if you had your daughter so many years earlier? Was it b/c of doubts you (each) had?

And last but not least, what were you like when you first met?

Who were you when she fell in love with you? How have you changed?
Can you go become the man you were when she fell for you?

Your main job now is to become the best jim YOU can become. Become a man only a fool would leave, and keep the road home, paved and smooth.

Meanwhile more specifically,
Do NOT show her your anger. That does not help you or your cause.
Lose the scorecard of your marriage, so don't measure her 'Sins" versus yours or come up with excuses for your flaws.

Own them which means change them. When you can say you are changing a flaw, or working on a problem it's NOT a problem anymore.

Say you used to always be late and it drove your wife crazy. Then you do a 180 and begin leaving a LOT earlier than usual, to get everywhere. in a month's time you stop being late, you are even early more often than not and never are you late again.

So, do you have a problem being late then? NO, you don't. Once a problem is being handled, it's not a problem anymore. So begin handling your problems and there will be a lot fewer of them.

Lose the anger

Lose the Scorecard

Listen like a lover, so when she mentions work related problems or having a tough day you LISTEN AND VALIDATE....(more on how to validate, later)

Make eye contact when she speaks, and recap what she says so you KNOW you understood her fully and so she knows you were actively listening.

Be calm. Do not show your neediness b/c it's not appealing or attractive.

I'll post you a list of guidelines for newcomers. It has the word "rules" on it but they are NOT "rules" but merely guidelines suggested by the DB author and her books and even she says "not all apply" and so use your judgement. See what helps and do more of that, see what fails and eliminate those choices.

we'll go from there when we get more info from you.

its NOT hopeless and I wanted you to know that. I also do know many couples who are not here anymore who are still, however, together.

In your situation you have the blessing of clarity. You know you have work to do, on YOU and you know only you control that. Really that is all good news b/c so much of this is within your control that you should feel very empowered by this.

keep on keeping on