Wife Still in MLC but has now left #4

[Wonka]

Now on to the MLCer Mind (if there was ever one!)....

I will no longer disrespect my W by seeing her choices as due to some crisis or her just trying at almost 50 years old to find her place in the world. She has made decision after decision that negatively effects me and her own children (of course that's only MY opinion), and gosh, it's only right that she has the time to roam free and find her joy and it's just so wrong of me to think that the crazy things she is doing are anything but her God given right to screw the person who had to take care of her for years while she was "sick".

Okay. I'll bite.

Let's turn this around a bit here. Say that you DO respect W's choices. This means you don't respect them at all because you don't LIKE them and doesn't fit into your neat little boxes of what a "wife" or "mother" is supposed to look like. You even said:

So, you think I show her that when my expectations fail, I judge her harshly. Umm...not sure how that would look since the only expectation I had was for her to be a wife and mother.

Yeah. You "expected" W to stay married to you forever and to be a "mother." That is how you packaged W into those small boxes. When she didn't met your "expectations", then she's Cruella De Ville. No wonder she wants to run away from that type of pressure.

Expectations in a marriage is just a recipe for misery.

It's not that long ago that men 'expected' women to be pregnant and barefoot all the time in the kitchen. Ugh!

Now...with that new angle, aren't you surprised that W didn't run away earlier??!!

Why is it that MY protecting myself financially is "punishing"? Why is talking about the VALUE of something (no repairs to the house so it's worth less) making an excuse? It's NOT an "excuse", it's a statement of fact. The house is worth X. The "community assets" are worth Y. If Y exceeds the value of X, then it's in MY best interest to sell the house and split the assets. Whether or not my W or you or mach think I should just roll over and say "Oh, well. Since W is in crisis, I should just let her keep everything of value" and doing anything else is just me being "superior" and "punishing" I still have to protect myself.

You misunderstood our feedback. Putting in boundaries is a way to protect you. We've urged you to speak with your L many months ago to put some systems in place to prevent W from taking things out of the house willy-nilly. Time and time again...she kept right on doing it because YOU had no legal safeguards in place stating that she cannot take things out of the house without prior consent from you as the H.

And yet you blame her for doing this???!! Disregard our advice at your own peril. Why do you look so shocked now??

See what I am saying here, Matt?

All the feedback I got when I wasn't trying to protect myself was "Don't let her take advantage of you". Now when I decide to take action, I get Mach and now you cat, telling me I'm just being judgemental of my MLC W and the poor thing is just trying to stop her pain. Oh, how dare I want to keep anything of value that we both worked for. I should just let her scream and shout and run around like a child and get her way, literally? Or did you miss that post?

Let's contrast this ^^ post with what you actually posted below:

I will no longer disrespect my W by seeing her choices as due to some crisis or her just trying at almost 50 years old to find her place in the world. She has made decision after decision that negatively effects me and her own children (of course that's only MY opinion), and gosh, it's only right that she has the time to roam free and find her joy and it's just so wrong of me to think that the crazy things she is doing are anything but her God given right to screw the person who had to take care of her for years while she was "sick".

Matt, can you pick out a few descriptive words that come out as being 'judgmental'? I can see 'em right here. Do you now see why Mach was trying to get you to see this as to make you more self-aware of your thought process? Becoming aware of them means that you have some more work to clear out more mental dross and from that comes personal growth.

I don't attach any "value" to the things except the monetary. When you are talking about "things" that are worth, in many cases thousands of dollars, there is nothing "so-called" about their value. In fact I don't want to 'keep' the antiques she has taken, I in fact will most likely sell them since that is the "value" that they have.

So, I'm not detached? How can I explain this to you so you will see....I don't care at all what my W is or isn't doing as long as it doesn't have a negative effect on me or my D14.

Beep, beep! Wrong-O! You are definitely not 'not detached' as you claim here. You're still very much all hot and bothered by W's actions. We read all of your postings here...right there in front of our eyes.

Problem is until this D is over, I have to care about what she is asking for in the D settlement especially when what she has agreed to and what she is now doing are very different. When I have to take actions that negatively affect my life because my W doesn't want to "put herself out" when, say, my D14 locks herself out of my W's house and she tells her to "call your father" instead of taking action of her own, I feel that is irresponsible and yes I don't like it.

Hmmmm..judgmental much? No? Or yes...

I trusted that my W would keep her word and acted as such by giving up all the things of value, REAL value not sentimental, now, if she gets what she wants, I will have been taken once again by a person who is acting not only selfish, is going against the LAW in our state when it comes to "community property".

Why on Earth would you trust a MLCer who changes their mind as frequently as a tumbleweed tumbling all over the vast, flat and hot New Mexican desert??!

Here are some final words here, Matt.

Your W is not "out" to hurt you or your daughters at all...not in a deliberate way. She's lost, confused, scared, and very stressed out. She's operating on those emotions which makes for some really wacky and wonky times for everyone involved.

In her mind, she wants to "divorce" you as a way to relieve the pressure she's feeling AT THE MOMENT. That could change several weeks or months down the road.

I suspect that when her father eventually passes away, she will be hit very hard.

Then...where will you be? What will you do?

Turn your back on W because of your resentments, hurts, and grievances that you continue to hold on to because it makes you come out smelling like "roses" here?

No?

Of course not!

1) You are not a victim
2) W is not Cruella De Ville
3) FIL is not Satan

At some level, you all three are broken people with baggage. Everyone is doing their best with what they're working with at this present moment. Yeah, not a pretty picture...but who's asking for a O'Kefee picture to admire from afar?

[Wonka]

Bottom line, Matt...be real gentle with yourself.

[LoisB]

Matt,

I apologize for being overly confrontational on your thread yesterday. My nerve endings are a bit exposed all over the place right now. I guess I felt you were taking a bit of a beating and I put on my Mighty Mouse uniform. But, you are a capable guy and can handle yourself.

It was really the one remark that got me going.

I know the intent of the posters on your thread is to push you to look hard at yourself and dig because that's where you will find the treasure.

Again, I'm sorry for hijacking and stirring up a can of worms and poo.

I know you got this. And, thanks for the kind words. I was fairly stuck in the quagmire for a long time. It wasn't until I looked at being alone, squarely in the eye, that I feel I got anywhere. Not Smokey's life to live, what he does, thinks, feels...none of my business right now...It's scary and painful, but sooooo worth it.

[LoisB]

And, sorry if I offended anyone else.

[Matt165]

Now you see, Wonka, I disagree with many of the things you wrote as I read them. Others I disagreed with at first glance but as I thought about them, I could see the point you were trying to make and understand what you were trying to tell me. You were never (really) insulting or did you make broad assumptions about things that you really have no way of knowing. Definitely you're not "hand holding" but at the same time you aren't attacking my entire life.

I get that I "expect" certain things, not only from my W but from the world in general. I expect that the person driving beside me stay in their lane and not cross the yellow lines and smash into my car. Now if someone wants to do this or even does it because they "felt" they had to, it doesn't make it right nor does it mean that if they damage my car or hurt me or my passengers, that they shouldn't be held accountable for the damage they cause.

Far from a "small box" of a definition of "wife and mother" mine was a very LARGE box. It included pretty much anything my W wanted to do as long as she, in the end, was still a part of the family. That she was willing to work towards a common goal, didn't intentionally hurt me or the girls. Let's be really "real" here. In every M, every partnership, every part of society, there are certain agreed upon "expectations". They are different for everyone. In most M's, it's NOT ok to have sex with someone else. It's a "deal breaker". Now, one S may stray and the other may "forgive", but for the most part each person in the M knows and has agreed that you don't do that. These "expectations" change as time passes and as circumstances change and the M partners talk about what it is that they NOW feel is the right way to handle certain aspects of the M from raising the kids to how each spends their own time. When one person goes against these agreed upon things it isn't "wrong" for the other to feel "betrayed" since it went against what BOTH had agreed to. No one is locked into any part of this agreement either. They can at any time change the parameters. The S's talk it over and come to a new set of what is ok or not ok. That happened many times over the years in my M. If my W ever wanted to change something that I couldn't live with (or the other way around) and we couldn't come to a new agreement, than that's a reason to leave the M.

No, I don't see that my W should have run away sooner. Far from my being angry just because I "don't like" what she is doing or how she is acting, she is actively hurting me and others. She is EXPECTING everyone around her to just agree that what SHE is doing is, no matter that it is hurting others, the "right" thing and if they don't, it's OK to act out against them. She made the decision to leave AFTER making agreements and MY doing things that, if she wanted to go, I wouldn't have done (from getting a vasectomy to cashing in my retirement fund). Not years after, WEEKS after. If she wanted something different she should have talked about it, told me what it was that she felt she needed from the M and worked it out. Instead I got the usual "bomb" drop and nonsense "reasons". I really don't think I would be nearly as angry if she had made any attempt to right the 20 year M she decided to throw away just weeks after saying she would never do that, after years of saying that she wouldn't just quit. Yes, "expectations" again but I guess I disagree that expectations are somehow wrong just on the face

As far as stopping my W from doing things like taking items from my home when I wasn't there...I DID go to my lawyer. He filed an order that said she CAN'T do that but my W ignored that. I guess I could have had her held in contempt but wouldn't that be even more "punishing"? The legal safeguards WERE in place but were ignored (one of the reasons I'm angry!). So, yes, I do "blame" her.

I also see that yes, I'm being "judgmental". Loaded word there, no? I did many things over the years that I wouldn't have because I had made an agreement with this person (that I trusted totally) to be there for her. I made decisions that are now hurting me because I trusted that my W wouldn't just up and leave for ANY reason..I "expected" her to live up to her end of our agreements. Not only that, she is acting in ways that are childish, hurtful to many others not just me and selfish in an extreme way. I find that to be wrong for so many reasons. So, yes, you are right, I'm being judgmental. I think that what she is doing is wrong because she made a pact not just with me but with God on the day we got M and made promises. We both VOWED to God, that we would act in certain ways and she has broken that pact.

At the same time, I also know that she is, like you say, "confused, scared and really stressed out" but she is those things because of her own choices. (OK, I know she didn't choose to be in crisis. She didn't choose to have a MLC but ....) She expects to be able to come through this D without ANY major sacrifice but at the same time expects me to make them in her place. She also "expects" me to still be there and take care of her D14 even when she has custody. OK, so she is not in her "right mind". Well, at times I really start to think "Maybe this is who she is". Maybe I was just blind to the truth and was used for all this time and as soon as she saw a way to still get what she wants from me but not have to do anything she figured "why not?".

I don't care if I smell like "roses" on here or not. No one here knows me really. I try to be as honest as I can about the sitch and what is going on and how "I" see it. Besides, from the last days posts I'm definitely NOT coming off smelling well at all.

I think that what happens is when I feel like she is being punitive in the D settlement or acts out, I start to lose any empathy about the fact that she is in a crisis that she didn't ask for. What I need to work on is this more than anything else. I am so tired of the struggle and I just am having trouble seeing what my W is doing as anything but her choosing to be hurtful. Doing it "too" me. Being purposely hurtful. I'm supposed to "respect" her choices but at the same time see that she isn't doing theses things to hurt others, or even stop because she should see that is what is happening? I'm having a hard time with that.

This all started because I posted that I was going to fight for what I believe is right and "fair" in my D settlement. I still am going to do that. I have to for my own sake. I won't be "unfair" or punitive but I also won't allow her to take me to the cleaners either. You have given me much to think about. I will by the way. Just because I tell you how I see what you have said doesn't mean I can't change as I mull it over. Thanks for taking the time Wonka.

[ericmsant2]

Matt

I have read you for a while now. IMO, FWIW, you are still angry and that is very understandable. Hell who would not be angry dealing with this. What I think some of the people are trying to get you to do is…to stop looking at your MLCer actions/words and to start looking at yours. That said, I have felt that “tone” is very difficult to convey in written text. So bear with everyone as the only insight into you, how you feel, your life….is the written words that everyone reads.

For example:

You were never (really) insulting or did you make broad assumptions about things that you really have no way of knowing. Definitely you're not "hand holding" but at the same time you aren't attacking my entire life.

IMO, the above a bit passive aggressive. I THINK that the line was written with two intents….first to acknowledge what Wonka was saying and second as a statement to other posters who you felt were insulting you.

I will not disagree or agree with how you felt about the response. You feel what you feel and no one can take that from you. What I would ask you to consider is….is this passive aggressive behavior who YOU want to be? Why not just flat out come out a say…hey so and so…I did not appreciate your comments and then leave it at that. Once again, I am not trying to rehash the past – I am trying to ask you to stop for a second and consider how SOMEONE ELSE may interpret your posts. FTR, the same can be said about anyone posting to YOU. So I am not defending anyone nor am I trying to attack you. If what I have written above, is insulting to you I sincerely apologize. Truly from the bottom of my heart. Please though….look at how your words may come across.


A few other observations….

It included pretty much anything my W wanted to do as long as she, in the end, was still a part of the family.

First off, YOU are NOT WRONG for wanting W to stay part of the family. Not wrong at all. You are NOT wrong for being upset that she changed her mind. Not wrong at all. What I had to learn HERE…and FTR, I am still learning….. is to accept that what I want in my life are MY dreams. My partner may have other dreams that do not align with mine. Does that make ME RIGHT and Her Wrong? No. It makes us different. When I read some of your posts….I sense that you feel you are RIGHT and she is WRONG. That type of mindset is only going to keep you stuck where you are. It takes a long…..like really long….like longer that you really think…..to change that BUT changing it is really good for YOU. I am not justifying your W actions. I am not saying that she is RIGHT. What I am saying is try not to get stuck in the who is RIGHT vs who is WRONG. Get me?

Let's be really "real" here. In every M, every partnership, every part of society, there are certain agreed upon "expectations". They are different for everyone. In most M's, it's NOT ok to have sex with someone else. It's a "deal breaker". Now, one S may stray and the other may "forgive", but for the most part each person in the M knows and has agreed that you don't do that. These "expectations" change as time passes and as circumstances change and the M partners talk about what it is that they NOW feel is the right way to handle certain aspects of the M from raising the kids to how each spends their own time. When one person goes against these agreed upon things it isn't "wrong" for the other to feel "betrayed" since it went against what BOTH had agreed to. No one is locked into any part of this agreement either. They can at any time change the parameters. The S's talk it over and come to a new set of what is ok or not ok. That happened many times over the years in my M. If my W ever wanted to change something that I couldn't live with (or the other way around) and we couldn't come to a new agreement, than that's a reason to leave the M.

Your “let be real here” opening statement. How do you think that makes people feel? Have you considered that maybe it is a little condescending. I think everyone here is an adult. I am sure folks understand what “real” is. I think everyone lives it. You may not have meant it the way that I interpreted it …but just mull on it for a bit. IMO, it comes across as you are smarter and better than others. That may be how you feel, it may not. One of the big DB goals is really to teach us how to communicate. So I ask you….could you see how this communication could have be interpreted? I am not saying you are wrong. I am simply stating how I read it and only ask you to consider how someone else might read it.

You mentioned above expectations. I agree that everyone has them. Although I personally wished I didn’t have as many as I do. I get what you are saying and I agree with you. My only comment is that right now….her expectations are different. Does that make her wrong and you right? Consider religion for a sec (I know probably a taboo topic)…… I believe in Jesus Christ, other believe in Budda. Does that make me RIGHT and them WRONG? Do you see where I am trying to go with this. It is NOT about RIGHT and WRONG. I think if you stop looking at things as right vs wrong that maybe you may feel better. That is not to say that her actions will not hurt. Just remember…someone that causes intentional pain is in pain themselves. It does not make their actions acceptable by any means. Understanding that they will do what they do…and you must do what you must do is the key…and doing it in a manner that aligns with who MATT want’s to be.

Far from my being angry just because I "don't like" what she is doing or how she is acting, she is actively hurting me and others. She is EXPECTING everyone around her to just agree that what SHE is doing is, no matter that it is hurting others, the "right" thing and if they don't, it's OK to act out against them.

Her expectations, wants, needs, etc are HERS. You have yours. Yours should be based on things that YOU control. For example, you should EXPECT from yourself to be a kick arse dad. Expecting her to be a kick butt mom is a receipt for failure – cause you cannot control it. Yes, you can be upset – hell you are human. Anger is a normal human emotion and does serve us well….when we feel it and let it go. BTW, noticed that you mentioned she wants people to “agree” – that gets right back to my earlier point about RIGHT and WRONG. IMO, it is God that ultimately makes that call. Not me nor you, nor any other poster.

She made the decision to leave AFTER making agreements and MY doing things that, if she wanted to go, I wouldn't have done (from getting a vasectomy to cashing in my retirement fund). Not years after, WEEKS after. If she wanted something different she should have talked about it, told me what it was that she felt she needed from the M and worked it out. Instead I got the usual "bomb" drop and nonsense "reasons". I really don't think I would be nearly as angry if she had made any attempt to right the 20 year M she decided to throw away just weeks after saying she would never do that, after years of saying that she wouldn't just quit. Yes, "expectations" again but I guess I disagree that expectations are somehow wrong just on the face

I actually think you would have been pissed off no matter what or when she did what she did. I know I would have been. FTR, mine was a master manipulator and still is. It is quite sad. The above quote though is why you are still really angry dude. I get it. I also know that the longer you hold on to it…the longer you will be stuck. Let it go. If you need to accept that she is WRONG. Personally, I would accept that she did things that quite honestly, she felt were important to her – REGARDLESS of how I felt or how I perceive others would feel. That is on her. It is her cross to bear. Not yours….as hard as that is to accept, when unfortunately you are dealing with some of the fall out.

Boundaries Matt.

She can do what she wants. Your only goal should be to learn how to heal and have healthy boundaries. Look dude, yeah she lied, yep you took money out of your 401k – yep you did it under the pretense of her staying in the M. I get that. What has happened has happened. No one put a gun to your head to pull out the money. YOU made that choice. Yes…under false pretense…but it was your choice none the less. Now, you can sit around and be angry from now until the cows come home. It will not change what has happened. Yes you may think you will FEEL better if she apologized. Then again, would you? Who knows and why should you spend any time even thinking about “what if’s”. Focus on the here and NOW and focus on YOU.

As far as stopping my W from doing things like taking items from my home when I wasn't there...I DID go to my lawyer. He filed an order that said she CAN'T do that but my W ignored that. I guess I could have had her held in contempt but wouldn't that be even more "punishing"? The legal safeguards WERE in place but were ignored (one of the reasons I'm angry!). So, yes, I do "blame" her.

Matt I understand. My ex never really follow any court orders and unfortunately still does not, at least not the ones that do not work in her favor. Matter of fact she has methodically poisoned my daughter over the past few years. Guess what? It hurt. Hurt more than I can even try and explain here. SO I GET your anger. What I can tell you is that you really need to work really hard to work through it. Is it fair? No. I have learned that sometimes bad things happen to good people. Can I change it? Nope. Can I control it? Nope. Can I control my anger? YES! I can choose to stay pissed off for an eternity or I can choose to work through it and use it to propel me forward. I really believe this is where you are at…..I call it the RAGE state. Your really really angry man and I so get it. Please though…for you, for you kids…figure out a way to let it go. Figure out a way to NO LONGER BE A VICTIM OF HER. Read the above…”yes I do blame her”. What does “blaming her” do for YOU? Nada. What does stewing in the anger do for YOU? Nada.

She expects to be able to come through this D without ANY major sacrifice but at the same time expects me to make them in her place. She also "expects" me to still be there and take care of her D14 even when she has custody. OK, so she is not in her "right mind". Well, at times I really start to think "Maybe this is who she is".

She is gonna EXPECT things. Teenagers do that. EXPECTING them not to is setting yourself up to be disappointed. She can expect all she wants. YOU have no control over it. None.

Matt – you should fight for what YOU believe in! Your beliefs should be based on things that YOU can control – like yourself. You can fight for custody, you can fight to have finances left over. Those are GOOD fights. Fights to prove her “WRONG”….fights to make her pay….Fights because you are angry…are not good fights.

[Matt165]

Thanks Eric,
Much to think about in your post and nothing I can disagree with. While I didn't mean to come off some of the ways I did, I do see how that it could be read that way, thanks for pointing it out. I was feeling a bit "attacked" but, again, that is just an excuse, not a reason.

Everything you have said is valid and makes sense and very much appreciated. I think more than anything else, in the end, we as people can only count on a very few people. We choose these people for different reasons and over time we start to let our guard down and REALLY trust that this small core group of people are the ones you KNOW you can trust. In turn you try as hard as you can to be trustworthy in return. You go out of your way for them, sacrifice for them because you really honestly believe with every fiber of your being that this person is one of the few you KNOW will never hurt you, never "turn" on you.

Of this core group your spouse is the one you trust the most. More than any other and when seemingly in the blink of an eye all that changes and they become the person who is MOST hurting you, the least "trustworthy" person in your life, it has a profound effect on you. You go through all sorts of emotions from hurt to embarrassment that you were "taken" by the one person you KNEW you could count on. You look back at all the things that you could have done if not for the fact that you didn't want to cause any upset to this person or because they "needed" you and wonder how they could do this.

In MLC I think it can be even worse because they also "blame" you for every bad thing that has ever happened to them all while you know that just isn't true. Very hard to deal with and when you see their actions hurting your kids and they can't or won't see it and just keep doing these things, it's even harder.

Thank you Eric, a lot to think about and important to actually accomplish!

[TSquared2]

This is something I copied into my DB notes, it struck a chord with me, posted by AJ on Lois' thread a while back, maybe it will help some:

The anger? It doesn't go away when you forgive. It doesn't go away with trust rebuilding. The anger goes away when you get your perspective straightened out. When you get over your own disappointment at the events that took place. When you embrace what is vs what you wanted or expected and the gap in between. When you realize that you took a chance and it didn't work out as you expected, but that you'll be ok and likely better as you progress on your journey. When you realize we are all flawed creatures and although we may lie to somebody who trusted us, it doesn't diminish what we felt or wanted to be....

Letting it go is not easy when it's in your face all the time. When you haven't had a chance to regain your perspective. To let your own light shine. To let go of the hurts and expectations you *had*. Forgiveness of the other for not living up to the expectations is not that hard after you regain perspective.

[ericmsant2]

Matt

You’re welcome.

MLC is worse. Period. Some may disagree with the notion of MLC. Personally, because I believe they think of it as ONLY a Mid Life Crisis (i.e. over 40, red sports car, etc.) when in reality I think of it more as a life crisis, which broadly defined (at least by me) is something in someone’s life that just “flips” and so they really and truly change. That said, regardless of MLC or not, the approach should still be the same. Mirror work, self improvement, letting go of the anger, clear boundaries and just becoming an overall better person.

One of the most important things I learned in my time here was…….

Chit happens. Sometime people are in your life for a season…sometimes for many seasons…. Sometime you choose them and sometimes…they choose you.

Another important tidbit and something that to this day I still struggle with….is CONTROL. Not just having it per se…but also ACCEPTING just how little of it you really have in ANY relationship. Be it your spouse, child, parents, friends, co workers. “LOVING DETACHEMENT” is a term often thrown around and used IMO, as a weapon instead of what it REALLY is intend to do.

I think more than anything else, in the end, we as people can only count on a very few people. We choose these people for different reasons and over time we start to let our guard down and REALLY trust that this small core group of people are the ones you KNOW you can trust. In turn you try as hard as you can to be trustworthy in return. You go out of your way for them, sacrifice for them because you really honestly believe with every fiber of your being that this person is one of the few you KNOW will never hurt you, never "turn" on you.

Stop for a second…and read your quote above. Read it slowly. Consider what I mentioned above.

1) Your W is treating you like dog doo doo and really trying to screw you. Right? OR is it that she really is just batchit crazy and knows no better. Maybe she never did. Maybe she never really learned what trust is. Maybe she watched you for a long time, followed your lead and then one day realized that she did not understand why she followed you in the beginning. Guess what Matt? That is NOT your fault and maybe in her case it is not hers either. FTR, I am not saying that you hand over your finances and walk away with your tail between your legs so that she “feels” better. NOPE. What I am trying to convey is that compassion can help you overcome your anger but in order to be compassionate you will need to try and consider just how f*cked up she is right now. It should not change how you protect yourself (even if that means you stop talking to her completely) but it will help with the anger.

2) “try as hard as you can for (put in whatever word you want here)” – Matt, stop for a second, is that HER that makes YOU try as hard as you can? NO. it was and will always be you. YOU control YOU. Period. Quick story……my daughter who is 13 – has stopped really talking to me. She is angry. She is…well a teenager. Is it fair that I blame HER for how I FEEL? I mean….I could right? I could be pissy and tell her because she is being a PITA that I feel bad. I am….after all JUSTIFIED. RIGHT? IMO, I am wrong. My daughter as much as I love her (FTR, I would do anything for her)…..cannot blame her for how I FEEL. I CHOOSE to ALLOW it. I CHOOSE how I deal with her. She does not know any better. She is a child. I am the one who needs to lead her. I am the one that will determine if I allow her chit to really get to me. Matt, it is not easy brother – not easy at all. The only way to get better is to finally stand up and recognize that YOU own your feeling – no one else. Just YOU. So Matt, why not say F it and choose to be happy?


[quoteOf this core group your spouse is the one you trust the most. More than any other and when seemingly in the blink of an eye all that changes and they become the person who is MOST hurting you, the least "trustworthy" person in your life, it has a profound effect on you. You go through all sorts of emotions from hurt to embarrassment that you were "taken" by the one person you KNEW you could count on. You look back at all the things that you could have done if not for the fact that you didn't want to cause any upset to this person or because they "needed" you and wonder how they could do this.[/quote]
Matt, believe it or not….many of the people who post to you know how you feel. I know I do. We all dealt with this on some level. My ex became someone that is just about unrecognizable. She (exact quote from my son)…”wanted to destroy you”. As a matter a fact in someways she still does. So is that a reflection on me? NO. Does it make her “bad”? NO. Does it make her immoral? NO. What it does…..is tell me that she is someone I would not want to deal with on any level. Can you see the small difference?

Matt this is hard chit dude. It WILL change you. That I have no doubt about. HOW though it changes you depends on YOU.

Stay angry and bitter

Or

Choose to become the man you really want to be….

Me….I choose honor, respect, love, compassion – I’m still a work in progress…always will be. I am far from perfect. Far. I love me though….love the man that I am, imperfections and all. Wanna know why?


Caused I allowed people to push me – I pushed myself as far as I could. I woke up every morning (some days were better than others) and said…I want to be the best me and the best me is NOT a victim. NOT angry. Yep…this crap happen. Yep…in some ways I got screwed. Yep.

BUT

It will not change me….

I control ME

I control how I feel and no one….not ex, not kids, not my boss, not my family, not my future wife….. NO ONE….controls how I feel.

a lot to think about and important to actually accomplish

Take your time bro….take your time. When you are ready….there will be people here to help…to challenge…to love…they will be here…just come open and ready for work. As I used to say….bring your shovel and your hard hat – so they real work can begin.

Your future Matt is what you make it! IMO, you are at the fork in the road….which path do you choose? Anger OR peace.

Choose the path….and then trust that others will guide you. Believe it or not….your W just as she is today is a teacher. She can dude, teach you that what and who she is today…is not who YOU want to be.

God Bless,

[Wonka]

Matt,

Please realize that we're circling our wagons around you and giving you support to AID you in becoming unstuck. Yes, some nuggets of wisdom may have wounded you because they struck a deep emotional chord within you. And it appears that you're not liking the process too much. No?

We all are on your side in getting you to a place of forward movement. That is our intent here...I am sure others may share that same view.

Now...on to your posts.

I also see that yes, I'm being "judgmental". Loaded word there, no? I did many things over the years that I wouldn't have because I had made an agreement with this person (that I trusted totally) to be there for her. I made decisions that are now hurting me because I trusted that my W wouldn't just up and leave for ANY reason..I "expected" her to live up to her end of our agreements. Not only that, she is acting in ways that are childish, hurtful to many others not just me and selfish in an extreme way. I find that to be wrong for so many reasons. So, yes, you are right, I'm being judgmental. I think that what she is doing is wrong because she made a pact not just with me but with God on the day we got M and made promises. We both VOWED to God, that we would act in certain ways and she has broken that pact.

I sense that deep in the recess of your being you're really ANGRY with the fact that your dreams having a long marriage with W have been horribly dashed into a million sliver shards lying on the floor. Innocence is lost forever.

Let me share a bit about my thought process right after Ms. Wonka moved out of the marital home. I was a tight ball of RAGE and blamed Ms. Wonka for a long time that she shattered my heart and my dreams along with it. It took me a long, long time to get to the place of compassion and recognizing that Ms. Wonka was really hurt by my MLC chit that she sought refuge elsewhere.

Here I am. I worked my butt off on the forgiveness gift. I did it for ME. I wanted to be free of that simmering, quiet anger that held onto a long list of resentments for shattering my fairy tale. Hey..I was supposed to be the Cinderella who found her Princess and they lived on "happily ever."

When that 'expectation' did not take place as planned, I was shattered and devastated. It took a bunch of people here in DBland to guide me toward the realization that I can either continue to imprison myself or set myself free.

Guess what I did?

Yes. I set myself free through compassion, patience, and empathy for Ms. Wonka coupled with forgiveness.

Matt, it is readily apparent that you are not yet at that place. I guess people process their emotions at a difference pace than others.

We want you to get to the place of happiness instead of being mired in resentment and anger. Trust us...it's so much better that way!

At the same time, I also know that she is, like you say, "confused, scared and really stressed out" but she is those things because of her own choices. (OK, I know she didn't choose to be in crisis. She didn't choose to have a MLC but ....) She expects to be able to come through this D without ANY major sacrifice but at the same time expects me to make them in her place. She also "expects" me to still be there and take care of her D14 even when she has custody. OK, so she is not in her "right mind". Well, at times I really start to think "Maybe this is who she is". Maybe I was just blind to the truth and was used for all this time and as soon as she saw a way to still get what she wants from me but not have to do anything she figured "why not?".

^^ That's a lot of mind reading, Matt. You just DON'T know what W is thinking unless you ask her DIRECTLY. You really don't have a choice in how W behaves. It is within her realm of responsibility. Consequences are not taught by the LBS but "Life" or Lady Karma will do the work on the WAS...especially the MLCer.

Step back and let Lady Karma do her work on W. It's not your job, Matt.

I think that what happens is when I feel like she is being punitive in the D settlement or acts out, I start to lose any empathy about the fact that she is in a crisis that she didn't ask for. What I need to work on is this more than anything else. I am so tired of the struggle and I just am having trouble seeing what my W is doing as anything but her choosing to be hurtful. Doing it "too" me. Being purposely hurtful. I'm supposed to "respect" her choices but at the same time see that she isn't doing theses things to hurt others, or even stop because she should see that is what is happening? I'm having a hard time with that.

Your W thinks of herself as a separated woman and a single person. So she acts accordingly. She's not being punitive when she's instructed her lawyers to draft up a document asking for the Moon knowing that it will ensue negotiations between the two of you until a final agreement has been hashed out. That is what the v. is for between the parties.

W DOES NOT want to stay married to you at all. There's no way around it. That's the irrefutable fact that you must accept or continue staying stuck. It's your choice.

Matt, I lost my beautiful marital home, furnishings, and split monies with Ms. Wonka. It was a freakin' painful process for me (and many DBers here as well).

Guess what? I survived it all!

Still standing on my own two feet with a hot girl and acquired some really neat interests such as taking up golf!