Crimson....piece by piece by piece......

[25yearsmlc]

Well, I'm piecing again - that much is clear. And things are very different than the last time around. We are moving S L O W L Y - no one is moving in and we are certainly not having sex at this point. We are going to MC and it has been great. We went to Disneyland as a family in July and San Diego over Labor Day weekend. We have had a lot of good talks, we are making progress in reestablishing intimacy and we are seeing each other daily (have been for awhile now). We make each other dinner, play with our S, all good stuff.

Backstory.....

As you may recall at the end of March/beginning of April we went to a joint counseling session with the intent of focusing on co-parenting. It ended in her telling me she was in a serious relationship with someone and about to introduce him to our S. I was crushed, devastated, and went totally dark. At that point I am pretty sure I gave up and walked away farther and faster than ever before (check my posts from around this time). No texting, no nothing....I was gone. Only communication that was necessary and about S. At that point, I believe she and the guy "David" had been dating three months - maybe four.

On June 14th, the Sunday before Fathers Day, I got an email from her basically saying that she was ready to move forward with our last remaining embryo on her own and wanted me to consider signing away my rights and responsibilities for it. Thanks to new communication skills, I lovingly, compassionately declined that offer and told her that it was something I could not do.

That pretty much opened the door to A LOT of conversation between the two of us, a lot of talks with God done by ourselves, the end of her relationship with OM, and set the stage for us to attempt piecing again. Nothing has materialized from the embryo just yet - but we both know we want it to.

well, of course my first fear is that the main reason she's back is b/c she's very much interested in that embryo...so I'd need to know why SHE thinks she and David broke up, to dissipate those feelings. Is that an unreasonable thing for you to want to know? (Not to me).

In this process, she has talked about her growth while alone and what she has learned about herself, our marriage, why it failed and her contributions to that failure. I have done the same for her - and though I do not agree with some of the things she believes and feel some things are left off the list I think constituted her contributions, we are working through it well.


Can you elaborate on what "Working through it well" means? How is she at "owning" her role? And I mean other than her "not telling you how she feels" pieces? I think those are pretty easy to "own", frankly. And What parts of it are what you do not agree with?

She has spoken about not having the skills, background or working model to establish a healthy relationship. We both acknowledge (with the help of my C) that we had clear codependency issues -- hell, I didn't even know what that meant or looked like, but she (my C) was right. She (EX) has also talked about being without a voice in our marriage and not speaking up about things that mattered to her (which, BTW, ALL came the f*ck out on bomb day) and how that unknowingly sublimated into resentment - which really was the poison that killed our R. She regrets not speaking up more, not expressing her opinion, letting me drive the discussion as much as I did and so on. And, truthfully, she has a point -- all of that happened.

Well that^^ is decent and important to see. But what about HER other stuff? Like the passive aggressive or the setting you up for failure and or testing you or any other things she did, other than not speaking up?

To me, the "not speaking up" piece is more like telling a bully you wish you had defended yourself faster, and then acting as if you have "owned" your role,

when in fact you are clearly putting yourself in a position of moral superiority, b/c it's clear to most people who measure (and I DO sense she still is measuring, sorry) that you are on the losing end of the meter stick.

Does that make sense? You don't have to agree but do you know what I'm saying?



The sad thing is that if she would have pushed back hard/harder back in the day I probably would not have taken it well and it just would have intensified into a larger conflict. We BOTH lacked communication and empathy skills with one another and I was a tad narcissistic (my C says that I was more along the lines of the "self absorbed" side of that scale....I wasn't a sociopath).

If you add all of that up...toss in THREE years of infertility and related treatments, being new parents, and a short list of other dysfunctional matters one conclusion snaps into clear focus. We were doomed.

So where are we now?

I mentioned in the post that got wiped out in the "great board purge of 14" that when someone once said "piecing is where the hard work begins" I scoffed at that notion because I didn't know what could be harder than what I was going through? Well, piecing ain't easy....but we are working through it.

We both still harbor bad memories from the divorce and before and we are working on building back trust....it requires a lot of work and selflessness and I have to practice new skills...so does she, but I am doing it.

Does she own anything about her approach to the divorce or the suspicions she has about you and being greedy? OR are you avoiding that for now? (It will come up eventually so I would not forever ignore that)....and How is HER family handling all this?

She is emphatic about not wanting to go back to our old habits or personas that resulted in so much tumult in our lives. We are learned who the new person is and trying to trust and understand that person.

Sounds good. Does she have any thoughts about what SHE'D like to avoid repeating herself? IOW, what flaw of hers does she most want to work on?


How we communicate and how we like to be communicated to has changed and we have to navigate that sea.

Fair enough. Been there, done that.


On the "affection front" we are holding hands when we are out or driving and I give her hour-long back rubs (I don't ask for them, not my thing) - but we are building back the basics of physical touch. As I noted before, my IC told me that women need to feel emotionally safe and secure before they become physical or sexual....while men need to feel accepted physically and/or sexually before they become emotional or vulnerable...so true. We are getting there.


How does SHE feel about that, if you know? Does she seem attracted to YOU enough for you?


I sent her a flirty/borderline racy text last night basically saying I was really turned on by a skirt she was wearing earlier in the day and that it made her rear look perfect. She accepted the compliment and thanked me, but said try saying things verbally to her and not by text. Lesson learned.

Where am I failing/struggling?

People, I am having a hard, hard, hard, hard time moving past this David guy -- and before the 2x4 come flying at my head I know that it is male ego and little to nothing else. I don't like that he met my son, I could go on - but it doesn't matter I guess.

FWIW, your son will NOT remember him. Seriously. And If he does, it'll be of little import. Like meeting a new neighbor, at most. Don't even go there. Just silly to think that way.

As for the intimacy issue, If she had GREAT sex with him, (And is there any other kind??---Answer: Yes there is another kind of sex: It's called mediocre sex & it's mostly with new unfamiliar partners...)

and IF that sex mattered a lot to her AND if she did not think she could do that with you,

don't you think you would know that?


Every now and then at her condo I see 1 or 2 little evidentiary pieces of what was probably their sex life and I get that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. What have I done wrong? I will tell you.

For one, you forgot the STOP SIGN image to shove in your head every time one of those sickening thoughts enters your brain.


I looked at the pictures on her phone without her knowledge and found pictures of the two of them together.

Crimson...okay here, I am sliding my arm in and reaching thru the computer and...

slapping you silly TWACK!!!

There! Stop being a goof. YOU LIKE PAIN?? Stop being a weirdo looking thru her phone and "cutting your heart" with a knife and then saying "Ouch!, that hurts".... Okay, I think I made my point...

It gave him a face in my head...not sure if that was a smart thing to do.


Seriously? You're "not sure if it was a smart thing to do"??? That's funny...


In my weaker moments, despite small pieces of evidence to the contrary my head goes to a place where I feel as if she is just with me because she wants another baby...I confronted her on that (lovingly) and we talked through it.


How did she express herself? Were you reassured she's not just dating you for the baby? You basically said "it's an all or nothing package" right?

She HAS to have YOU if she wants the baby from that embryo AND she can't just get another embryo with someone else? (Why not?)

And why can't she just have the baby and then leave you again, but this time with more child support? Do you think she'd have ever called you or come around if you had signed away the embryo?

Crimson, YOU are the one who needs the most reassurance here, NOT her. Let's be real clear about this. I am.


But still, at times I feel like it not for the embryo she would still be with that guy -- not sure if that is true or not.

that^^ would be and IS my main concern.


Her mom recently told me that her "time knowing David ran it's course" and that she "wanted a future". I need to try to breath and accept that and extinguish my ego.

It's NOT all the ego talking here^^. It's also amazing timing. You say "no" to the embryo question and suddenly she IS interested in you....yeah, you'd be an idiot not to wonder. That's why I'm asking you how SHE is reassuring you that it isn't that way. She said way back when, that she wanted the embryo but was NOT sure she wanted to be a couple with you.

What has changed about that, if anything, and why?


On the extremely petty side of things (but possibly relatable to men), one thing bothers me. When she moved back to the house in the spring of 2012 I acknowledged that one of my faults was the fact that I never made her feel wanted physically -- I was not good at that communicated and infertility, IUIs and IVF torpedoed or sex life. So one day, I spent over an hour at Victoria's Secret, spending hundreds of dollars buying her new "things". I spread them out on the bed for her with a note telling her how attractive and sexy I thought she was and that I would never let her forget it again.

How did she respond at the time you gave those to her? Were you there when she saw them, to gauge her reaction? I'm not sure I'd have reacted the way my h would like if he bought me some of the things I am thinking of.

He once bought me something that was way WAY too small for me, I couldn't decide if he was hinting that I needed to lose weight, or complimenting me on how good I already looked (so I CHOSE to assume the latter).

I also realized one thing for sure, my h cannot guess at women's sizes well. ...but I digress.

A few weeks later she moved back out. Where does the petty come in? She rarely if ever wore anything of the things that I bought her for me/us....but I am SURE in the six months she was with the other guy he pretty much saw all of it.

and how do you know this for "SURE"?? Let alone that he "saw all of it"?? Come on Chris...

Plus, dear God, I'd have to really know a guy super well to wear those things with him AND if MY h had gotten it for me, there's no way it would not cross my mind, WHILE I was wearing it.

So you can be sure that IF it happened as you think, you were on her mind --wrecking her time with him, (so there.)


I know, I know, I know....get over it - and I will....but it just makes me sick to my stomach sometimes that I bought him such a nice gift that I intended for us....that I bought out of love. Part of me hopes that she burns all of it in the trash. I will now brace myself and my ego for the 2x4s.

2 x 4's Already given. And you know, down the road (not now, not yet) you can buy her new things...Plus you'll be weird with her if she does wear those "Old" things, right?

Even though you are NOT at all "SURE" "she wore it all for him"...you are doing some lovely harm to yourself now for sure. Put the Samarai sword away, Crimson!


Other than that, I am doing OK. I am putting her and her needs first and living the life that has bloomed in the wake of our divorce...I am being the new me and slowly but surely she is starting to notice I think....but more importantly trust it.

This happened:

The other morning I bought her a dozen and a half roses and brought them to her condo as she was getting ready for her day. Later in the day I texted her at work telling her that I bought them for her because I woke up that morning just wanting to love her. Her reply? "Thanks Chris. Each day I think I heal from our past a little more. I look forward to moving forward on this journey."

That was about as positive as I could expect.

well, I think you did expect more. What was it? I'm being sincere. You are not too thrilled with the reminder of her pain? Fair enough. And what about YOUR pain? How she treated you during the divorce was not as well as you treated her. That's a fact. But then I suppose if we were to get our scorecards out, the ones we all threw away (but sometimes go back and get out of the trash) she'd say she was ahead in the marriage and she MIGHT be right

but in the divorce? She'd lose. All I'm saying is I need to hear her own 2 things. 1) that she grossly misjudged you in the divorce proceedings and impugned your integrity or let her dad, for which I would need to hear a retraction.

AND my other concern, already touched on, is the miraculous timing of her "interest" in a R with you. Coming so soon/along with your refusal to release the embryo, is suspect. I'd need a lot of reassurance on that issue to even consider really moving forward.

Ask her outright if you two would even be talking, if it were not for the embryo. IF you are not ok with that, run it by your IC.

So...that is most of it for now. I have done another stupid thing or two, pretty much all just snooping because I have trust issues still (just being honest) and want to see if something is being hidden from me. Still, we are doing well...son is doing well....and my family, well, that's another post.

More later.

Crimson....awww hell, we're all friends...you can call me Chris if you want to.

I don't really get the snooping. Do you think she is still seeing "David" the OM?

Are you worried she'll go back to David after she has the embryo implanted?

I mean, I can see the fear about her embryo concerns for sure. Like maybe she is using you.

But the snooping won't read her mind on that, so what is it you are actually looking for?
Plus you are risking a lot b/c she'll freak out if she finds out you are snooping, won't she?

I could see you blowing this, right there. I'd be very careful about the GOAL of snooping and I'd assess the downside risk carefully NOW before you do anymore of that.

Just my .02

((( )))