Mindsin - pt. 4 (the countdown begins)

[25yearsmlc]

Over the weekend, we had some further R talks.

Saturday night:

She is disappointed that I think the worst of her. She is upset that I think she is calculated, controlling, and manipulative.

And so, when/why did you tell her those^^ things?


I told her that I fear for the future and I fear that she and the OM have this whole thing planned out (getting both spouses to lay down quietly while both family units are systematically deconstructed).

Just curious..."lay down quietly" means what? And, as opposed to what? Burning all the bridges they can?

Her response was that neither she nor the OM have anything planned and that she really doesn't know what the future holds herself. She said "I don't know what end of year looks like. I don't know what next week looks like!"

I sense that beneath her tough exterior is a lot of confusion and pain. She has always had a hard time showing her soft side to me. She always had this "I don't need anybody" attitude, and it still resonates in the things she says and does.

I would think that^^ is a defense mechanism to protect her from further pain from your infidelities and lost jobs and financial fears...the less vulnerability she shows, the less hurt she'll feel if things fall thru for her again.

I continued..

WHY?? You JUST finished saying you have to work on STFU and then a day or 2 later you do this again....showing the same old probing pressuring side of yourself. And a lack of self control which would be such a 180 for you.

.I told her that from my PoV, I'm working on becoming a better man, father, and husband. I told her that I'm going to continue treating her like any W deserves to be treated.

She asked, "And how is that?"

I said, "To be treated as an equal partner in life".

She nodded.

I then said, "What I know about you is what I've known since I met you -- that beneath your tough exterior is a very soft side. It's that soft side of you right now that is hurting and in pain.


^^^this is you telling her how she feels. Instead, you could ask her, then STFU and listen.

I recognize that I caused you so much pain, but I have found it in my heart to forgive myself for the things I've done to you. It doesn't mean that I'm letting myself off the hook for my past wrong-doings. It means I've let go of the self-loathing that was eating my soul so that I can continue living my life."

This seems mighty convenient & self serving. Also, I see NO reason for you to have shared this with her. The only possible thing that she might need to hear is that you are sorry for all the pain You caused her. Then stop.

We then got into a conversation regarding the OM/OMW relationship.

Neither of you have any business discussing their m. Imagine THEM talking to each other about Your marriage. How does that make you feel?

What would you think of their opinions of you and or your wife, and how you two get along? How much value would you give their opinions?


She doesn't believe anything the OMW says, and said she was there in the presence of the OM when he had some of the conversations that corroborate his side of the story, and negates hers. Because of that, everything she has said to my W is under scrutiny and doubt.

Not of interest to either of you, and not relevant to your life or your plans.


She said that she understands why I feel the need to try to help save their marriage, and it's that kind-heartedness that she fell in love with 19 years ago.

I think it's only b/c it serves Your interest to have their marriage work out. Plain & simple.

It's also why it was incomprehensible to her how someone so kind-hearted as myself could betray her like that.

I told her that my past indiscretions were a result of voids in our marriage that I filled through infidelity and betrayal. I said that I am in no way excusing anything that I did, and infidelity is never an excuse.

THIS ^^ is false. IMO, You ARE indeed excusing and explaining your behavior instead of simply saying you behaved deplorably and selfishly.

You STILL make it about the marriage. AND YET you want her to stop her A, as if it has nothing to do with the marital dissatisfaction she feels. With HER, it's just wrong to have an A, but with your past multiple affairs, it was all b/c of "voids IN the marriage".

Ever think she feels those voids still exist and that you cannot fill them and therefore she's still totally justified in her A?? That is how I'd see your comments if I were her.

Man, you really have got to learn to STFU


I continued that while I was unfaithful to her, I was never disloyal to her. I said I was ALWAYS loyal to her, and always wanted to be her husband, and never wanted to leave the marriage.

I think this is the oddest most self serving comment you have made yet. And I'd never make it again if I were you.

You are NOT morally superior, OR "loyal" to your wife when you screw other women, repeatedly AND use marital assets to pay for it.

How you can describe that as "LOYAL", even now, is a real stunner for me. And the fact that you did not want to marry the OWs (just sleep with them) says nothing good or loyal about you. Stop mentioning it.

Besides, I doubt the escorts were looking for marriage.

Mindsink, You are still blind. I really don't think I am helping you much.

She replied, "That's because you didn't have the balls to. You were a coward."

I retorted, "So what does that make [OM]? A hero? A hero for leaving his wife and kids?"

I told her that this conversation is no longer in our best interests to continue.


NONE OF IT EVER WAS.

She said that she will be spending the night with the OM and that tomorrow (Sunday), she'll be spending half the day with her parents because she feels that she needs to seek counseling from them.