MLC-WAW- Long Road Ahead- Help!

[CaliGuy]

Then a thought jumped into my head ..... can you forgive someone for something like that when they don't even show remorse??

Forgiveness has nothing to do with what the offender thinks or feels. It's for YOU, not them. Forgiveness relieves YOU from carrying their burden...do you want to carry those negative feelings the rest of your life?

I am totally aware of that, and its points like this I realize I am not as detached as I feel at times .... and you are right ... even the sermons state forgiveness is not for them, its to release ourselves and I agree, BUT .... I would be remiss is saying it would be nice to see SOME remorse but the MLCrs just seem to be the opposite in so many areas of normal human behavior

My stbxw doesn't remember the bulk of the spew and venom she said to me, and some to the kids. She has started to remeber some, last I knew, but you know? It doesn't matter.

You can choose to take the spewing from a mentally unbalanced person personally, if you want, but why?

This far down my road I see it for what it was, it doesn't hurt anymore. I re-framed it into my experience interning in a pysch ward... I didn't let the patients crazy talk and spew affect me because? (psst...they were mentally/emotionally unbalanced)

There are a lot of personal "why's" we LBS have to dig into and answer ourselves honestly, that have NOTHING to do with the WAS. It's tough, but all so, so worth it.

Hope you are feeling better soon and hang in there!

Like I said .. I get it ... as one of the quotes I will forever have in my pocket says "Hurt people ... hurt people" I never thought I would be here ... then again .. sometimes after the BD it seems we all focus so much on the WAS that we forget .. that M was not so great, for me ... I can admit I had a good bit of warning .. I just thought like most it would blow over ... woke up one day and a stage 5 hurricae actually hit and I was not prepared for the mess.

Maybe after all is said and done I will see the bigger plan, maybe not, she just did TM me asking how I was feeling .... was quiet all day but I can say for about 4 weeks the exchanges have been pleasant, or none at all .. which I have accepted as .. no conversation is better than a fight.(This silence used to drive me insane)

Thanks Tsquared for the input, I completely can see your points ... and agree with your opinion ... sometimes just reading another s perspective can re arm our defenses, look at things a little differently ... but most of all just knowing someone else can relate can fuel us for another day.... journaling it does help but I think its triple when you get some feedback , this forum is a goldmine.

[BklynMom]

You are not alone in this ... We are here with you

[CaliGuy]

Thank you BklynMom


So ... just a little journal entry.

So yesterday W tells me she has a second interview late afternoon so I would need to cancel my church night and keep S. I was aware it was a possibility and I actually relish any bonus time I get with S so .. .no problem. She TM me around 7:20, asking to speak with him ....red flag, she typically never does this unless she has plans ... so now the analytical side comes out, mind racing .. is she with OM, maybe a new OM, date ... what? I went on a furious mental ride for a few minutes and decided ... it doesnt matter, I have allowed this to affect me ... so I cast it aside and continued to watch the movie, had S call at the usual time a little after 8, no answer .... she TM at 9:30 saying she was in the shower then on the phone with her father ... not buying it ... (Believe 0 of what they say and 50% of what they do) I simply replied with an "Ok night"
She then TM me 4:30 this morning complaining of a headache, asking how I have dealt with it for a week and a half, asking if it was concussion related .... I didnt really reply. I dropped S off, she was visibly not feeling well .... maybe guilt kept her up .. maybe the headache ... who knows I was brief, told her I hoped she felt better and ended the conversation and walked away

I feel bad, I promised her brother I would be there for her as he is getting sentenced, 5 days after my B day ... I really wanted to use my B day as the spring board to lay down my boundaries but will wait till the end of the month or so. I just can not trust her, and at this point I have been really thinking about what I get from her in our R ... even before the BD, she has used me ... and continues to do so, I have reached the point where I have changed for the better, not all to get her back .. but like the DB approach .. changed for me, because it was needed .. making a better version of me ... I have more work to do but at this point .. I am either good enough for her or I am not, I dont know what needs of mine she fills, nor ever did honestly. I do love her ... but am questioning why as of late. In a way .. I might just be counter BD'ing her soon.

Just thoughts in my pounding head as of late.

[CaliGuy]

Ok ... so W has been TM me .. about S, then the fact we have a refund on taxes she wants to split, and then repay me the balance she owes (Good timing as I am looking a t a new place.

Just TM me now and I need help ... she TM "What do you want for your Birthday?" ..... my answer is .. My Wife/Family and Best Friend back .. but I can not obviously send that. This is tough, last year she was with OM, though I didn't know it ... its tough to not think of that now, even harder as that card there was no ILY as in years past. BUT ... when she asked I have always told her nothing, part of me would like to say .. Football game tickets for our family at your college ... then part of me really wants nothing from her but this would be taken negatively

Any suggestions in how to respond?

[CaliGuy]

SO I re-read the TM ... she actually asked What I wanted to DO for my B-day.

I replied honestly ... well mostly ... I told her:

Me:I haven't really given it much thought honestly, I have a ton of work to do. Maybe just Church and S wants to see a movie

W:Ok then I guess I'll let you two have your day (wow bitter much??)

Me:I was not excluding you

W: It sounded like that. If you made plans that's ok

Me: I never meant it that way, S just mentioned he wanted to see a movie is all.... I have not made plans like I said, I haven't given it much thought. I do not want you to feel obligated either

W: I'd like to. No obligation. What would you like to do? Dinner Sat night?

Me: That sounds nice TY


So she then asked where, she has diet restrictions so I told her anywhere that is safe for her would be fine with me, then I discussed how S was scared about me being sick (I have had this migraine and back ached for 10 days ... I can pill it to submission but something just is not right) She offered to go to my appt tomorrow and I thanked her but told her I would be OK.... I realized last week ... alone in the ER just how alone I am, I just have that one little boy .. no family, no one close I would call ... W is the only one I share that kind of stuff with and in a way I was angry, sickness and in health, till death (mine .. lol) do us part ... still mean something to me. I let it go, but it did sting a bit. She TM me back and forth actually concerned .. but like its been said ... I am not sure if its like a friend-zone concerned ... or That's my husband concerned

Either way, she has been nice lately, I can think of all the bad things she has been doing the past few days and if she is telling the truth or not ... but gets me nowhere ... I am detaching again/further from her .... and the B-day is another step .. I have been at this a year now, that rope gets heavy from time to time, then she seems to give me just enough to hold it for a bit longer, it amazes me how in tune she is with me and knows when I am about to drop it every single time.

[AJM]

Considering the stress you've been under, I hope it's nothing too serious to deal with. Either way, I'm sure you'll deal with it well.

I remember feeling similar. My family is all in California (I'm from there) and I'm on the right coast. My ex, my kids and her family were the closest to me. I felt alone. Briefly. Because then I realized that in some strange way, my wife had pushed to alienate me from friends etc. I worked. I spent time with my family. I went to church. Rinse. Repeat. When I wanted to spend time with friends, my w had always pushed to prevent that. It happened over years, so I barely noticed it. Figured it was more to do with raising the kids. But looking back I saw it differently. Little things around the house etc.

Being alone was my choice. I've since chosen differently. In your case, you may want to choose differently now and foster relationships with friends, etc.

AJ

[CaliGuy]

AJ

Yeah I am pretty sure its stress, possibly vision related. And as far as the friend thing, I have ... well lets call em "buddies" I have some guys on the softball team, on the football team ... but when it comes right down to it I just dont feel comfortable showing the underbelly if you will. My IC has been working with me on accepting invites, being more social ... like you the W did slowly and gradually help me alienate myself from friends.


So ... this roller coaster, sometimes its them at the controls .... other times I think its us. I for whatever reason have this burning desire to push, its been about a year ... and I want off. Then I catch myself, things have been going well .... anything that could be perceived wrong I have no proof of (Ie if the OM is still involved, her lying, etc). I set a boundary a few weeks ago, and she made a point .... (To fill it in, I told her no "fake" family time ... I needed proof OM was out of the picture, she was receptive to that and agreed but she felt it controlling .... as the MLCrs script goes, she did say she wanted to try, and she agreed to the NC letter but needed to trust the changes I have made were real, everything I read here told me to stick to my guns but I was reminded of a letter 25 posted about how it took years and years of broken hopes/promises to get the WAW to this point, and sometimes us LBS make all these changes and expect the W to believe in them in just weeks/months.) So I was in a pickle, stick to my guns, or have a boundary pushed back in my lap. I decided to compromise and put things on hold a bit, use a little more time, knowing her brothers issues would be hitting soon, knowing she will run to me for support as she has over the last year when ever storms hit. Figuring I can continue to work on me, avoid the backslides which I've done and take the opportunities to prove I have changed.

Speaking of change, just senseless chatter with my S (7) ... we were talking about his day, he had a bad one and little guy has a temper, I asked him in a fun way whose temper did he have, he told me both, but then said something that made me happy, he said mine has changed, I am not loud when I get upset anymore, he said that he noticed I have changed .... kinda floored me and made me realize I have, with a lot of Gods help, I have more work but it was strangely validating that the one person I cherish most noticed and told me.


So back to the push thing, I really do not want to... but there is a point where I am either good enough or I'm not, I am tired of the limbo and being alone and at some point I have to stop spoon feeding her, she has not pressed the D in some time, she seems to be making an effort in communicating and has been pleasant I am just not certain if that's to keep the peace, or if she is peeking out the tunnel a bit. I am not certain she will look at me as her husband again, I can not just be a friend when I still love her this way. 24 years I have loved that girl, 24 years .... I just dont know any different

Patience, I am better off with her now than I was a year ago, hoping she realizes what we had is worth fighting for, she has just started IC and I need to let this play out and allow God the time to work, Patience ... ugh, not my strong point .... just felt good to vent this out.

[ForeverYoung]

So back to the push thing, I really do not want to... but there is a point where I am either good enough or I'm not, I am tired of the limbo and being alone...

Why are you tired of being alone, Cali? What can you do to fix that?

It seems to me it's important that we are good on our own before we get into (or back into) any relationship. Don't want to look to someone else to make us whole, you know? This is even more true for you and I since we never knew any life without our W's.

I am not certain she will look at me as her husband again

She has to love herself before she can love you. People in MLC do not love themselves.

I can not just be a friend when I still love her this way.

I used to say that too. Turns out I was wrong.

Patience, I am better off with her now than I was a year ago, hoping she realizes what we had is worth fighting for, she has just started IC and I need to let this play out and allow God the time to work, Patience ... ugh, not my strong point .... just felt good to vent this out.

There you go, just give this some time and see what happens. If you're going to stand you have to take steps to make it work for you. You can do this.

[CaliGuy]

Why are you tired of being alone, Cali? What can you do to fix that?

It seems to me it's important that we are good on our own before we get into (or back into) any relationship. Don't want to look to someone else to make us whole, you know? This is even more true for you and I since we never knew any life without our W's.

Ok, so .. .I am actually ok with being alone, but I guess I just miss her, and my family. Together for 24 like I said, we would still be able to take a 4 hour drive with no radio, just talk, we had such a great connection. I miss sharing the nights, cooking for the family, being a family.
I can be alone, but would rather have my family back... just that fact you cant have what you want type syndrome. I have GAL, Harley, Softball, Football, Church, soon to hit up a Bible study ... then I just run out of days.

She has to love herself before she can love you. People in MLC do not love themselves.

I do think there is alot to that.... she even mentioned the last little spat she tried to bait me into that she uses me for comfort, but knows deep down I deserve better than someone like her. I just looked at her, knowing she has all this guilt, shame, and has been fighting the self esteem all her life, I can not understand it as she is a very beautiful woman ... she knows it at times, but I think she does not like who she has become and getting older scares her to death.

There you go, just give this some time and see what happens. If you're going to stand you have to take steps to make it work for you. You can do this.

Thats where I am at, I look big picture I am far from where I was, I have used the gift of time, She no longer seems to "hate" me and has started looking inward and has stopped blaming me for it all, she makes it a point to thank and appreciate me with making sure S has homework done, coaching his team ... just being a good father which I take pride in. However this has been making her feel like less of a mother I think, he is clearly a daddy's boy, he feels safe with me, we talk, I am open with him about the sitch ... not tossing her under the bus, but just answering questions as best I can for him. (She made the mistake of having OM early on involved doing things with S and OM's 2 kids .... my S clearly knew something was very wrong, I had no idea of OM at the time ... and once I did that was a very firm boundary I set. one I still get heated about when I think of it)

SideTracked... lol So Thanks FY, its hard to disagree when someone is right, we all have different but similar situations, none less painful than the others, we all want each other to succeed and sometimes we are just to close to the forest and it takes another to point out a subtle observation that ... well lets face it .. any small tweak or adjustment could be a M saver, or at the least save someone days/weeks/months of more pain and torture.

W TM me about an hour ago asking me to call her, so I went outside and called her, PMA said good morning, she wanted to talk about my Dr Appt, she is clearly concerned .... offered and almost fought me to let her go with me. I refused, one its my issue and we just are not "there" yet ....TWO, like I told her, maybe its something, maybe its not ... at this point I do not anticipate getting any answers, ad I would let her know what the next step is. 3, she takes over, always has ... asks questions that do not address the situation, I just do not want that. She did ask me "Cali....What if this is serious?"
I could hear the fear in her voice, maybe a good thing that she can think of her life without me ... I don't think its serious .. but I did tell her all the life insurance is in place, I don't think you can retire and move to Cabo on it .. but is should pay for S college and you are taken care of. Then she said "S is attached to you , not me" And I got a little choked up and told her "I know, but I do not have a doubt you will be able to step in and be there for him, I just don't think God has done all this, brought me this far... to this point only to pull the plug and take me now, I am not ready, I have more to do here. I do not want you to worry ok?"
Then I changed the subject and talked about church and where she was taking me for my Bday, she asked what I wanted to do .. and I just validated that her offer to dinner was nice, maybe a walk after (She loves to walk after eating out) and I did throw out I would just like to enjoy her company (I thought that would be a nice thing for her to hear, and in a way make it more about us, almost a date without saying "date")

Was a nice heart to heart ... and I told her to have a great day and I would let her know how things went and not to worry, but I thanked her for her concern.

Another + in the calendar.

[Nitty]

Happy birthday, Caliguy! Probably not the best birthday you've ever had, but you can make it a good one! Take a fun drive on the Hog!