Shocked and freaked out

[Seattle]

Here goes.

Couple of things to note about our relationship:
- We have been great friends and get along super well. We make each laugh a lot, and enjoy spending time together doing whatever (shopping, TV, dinners out, trips together)

- Both of our jobs are really intense so there were a lot of times when we wouldn't spend much time together during the week. She was getting up earlier than me, and I was coming home later than her and she was already in bed. Missed chances for us to connect.

- I am a pretty driven guy, trying to work my way up the corporate ladder at a tech company. I am focused, and generally try and get my way. I think I have taken this behavior home in some way.

- Around D-day she told me a bunch of things I do which annoy her such as the fact that I have bad breath, that I don't dress up enough sometimes, that I am not always fun.

- When I look back on our relationship we had so many amazing experiences together - trips, dinners, hanging out doing nothing, laughing. Cards she has written me (recently!) that professed a deep love for me have confused me greatly.
- Our sex life has never been awesome. When she was traveling a lot I got more into porn which probably increased my expectations for her in the bedroom / made me think about other women. I think this prevented me from being able to establish an emotional connection with her through sex. Also, I believe it diminished my sex drive a bit. She often wanted to have sex in the mornings and I wanted to have sex at night (when she was dressed up - which I always thought was hot).

- The new job she has given her a lot of responsibility. She has been meeting lots of people and getting a bunch of attention. It is making her feel really confident and she absolutely loves it. I supported her a lot in getting this job (she did it on her own obviously, but I encouraged and thought it was a great chance for her). She has capitalized on it and her career is taking off.
- She has started to socialize a lot with her boss (female). They would go out drinking a bunch together. Her boss is 38 and divorced with two kids and going through a nasty custody battle.
- On D-Day (7/12/14) she tells me that she has been unhappy for a while. She thinks the spark is missing between us. She says things are very comfortable between us but there is no passion. She says she thinks to move out. I freak out and am sad/confused/scared. I try and get us into see a marriage counselor quickly (a week or so later). He encourages her to move out because that is what she says wants. She was saying "I need space".

- A couple of weeks later i get the I love you but i'm not in love with you.

- The day she moved out and I found out about this guy I confronted her. Me: "Who are you? How could you do this? i dont even know who you are anymore." Her: 'I'm so sorry. I'm a terrible person. It just started a week ago. its been fun." I got texts from her later that day with her apologizing more. I apologized for going into her phone.

- We've hung out three times since then. Once at starbucks - kept it super casual and fun. I was confident, dressed up, looked sharp, etc. Didn't bring up the relationship. The next time I saw her was after our last counseling session and I was a complete emotional wreck and tried to kiss her a lot and be physical with her and convince her that we should give this a shot. I did a lot of selling. I said I love you a lot. I found out through a friend this was bad and I realized I shouldn't have done it. We saw each other again on Sunday morning and went for a long walk. That was a couple of days after I discovered this forum and 180s etc. I kept it casual, did not bring up the relationship at all, tried to be confident, focused on her, validated her, looked her in the eyes, agreed with her, etc. We also agreed to stop going to this marriage counselor because neither of us was feeling very good about him. She said he made her feel bad, and I did not think he was helping. We had a great chat. When she left she gave me a long hug (12 secs?) and a kiss on the lips. Then I walked away and did stuff in the kitchen. She came over to me to say goodbye again and gave me another hug and a kiss. This time she looked longingly into my eyes and smiled. I returned the gesture as best I could. Then she left. At which point I cried uncontrollably for like 20minutes.


- In terms of GAL. Here is what I am doing. Exercising a lot (i already do it a bunch but i'm stepping it up a notch). Mixed doubles tennis team, spinning classes, lifting with a friend, and an endurance competition scheduled (like 12 hrs of hiking with a weighed backpack). Going to play golf for the weekend with some buddies in two weeks out of town.


Here is what i think is going on in her head:
- She is unhappy and has been for a while. She attributes her unhappy with me.
- She thinks there is no spark between us anymore and thinks we are great friends but doesnt have a romantic interest in being with me
- She feels great when she hangs out with her coworkers
- She is attracted to this guy at work
- She feels hopeless about things getting better between us

Her behavior feels exactly like a MLC (even though she is only 32). Also, I knew there were some issues but I attributed them to stress about work. For example, she used to be really into getting our house in order and getting things knocked off of our joint todo list but she has not been working on anything related to the house or us for months. Also, I forgot to mention she is going to be going to graduate school soon as well for a 2yr program part time (which I think added stress as well).

Thanks for reading and any advice you have.

[sandi2]

Edited by Cristy (24 minutes 4 seconds ago)
Edit Reason: original post too long

What?!?

[GoatGal]

Hi Seattle,

This:
"Our sex life has never been awesome. When she was traveling a lot I got more into porn which probably increased my expectations for her in the bedroom / made me think about other women.
I think this prevented me from being able to establish an emotional connection with her through sex.
Also, I believe it diminished my sex drive a bit.
She often wanted to have sex in the mornings and I wanted to have sex at night (when she was dressed up - which I always thought was hot)."

...is a big red flag for me.

I don't want to hijack your thread, but please read up on my stuff to see how an unhealthy relationship with porn will destroy your relationship and your sex life.

This can be serious stuff! The inability to be emotionally available during sex and the wanting to have things at night with the "visuals" points to an inability to really be vulnerable and close to her. That is not a fun relationship for women, long term.

Something to think about.

Good luck and hang in there,

--GGG

[Card29]

I second that comment from GoatGal. I'd make going permanently porn-free a 180 of yours. I know it's one of mine. It was definitely a negative factor in our R over the years. If an intimate, lifelong, loving marriage is your goal, I don't think porn has an place in that picture, even if she's "okay with it".

btw, your sitch is insanely similar to mine. She dropped the bomb on me after her first semester of her EMBA, where she was a star and become part of a clique with 4 good looking, successful, driven guys. Both of our W's are in a fog due to this and many, many other factors. Remember that you can't control her or her decisions. All you can control is you. And YOU were undoubtedly many of those "other factors" that led her to this point. So start identifying and working on those. Unless you have an incredible memory, I would start a journal of some kind. Whatever you do, don't let her see it. Download a password-protected app, create a new e-mail account and e-mail to yourself, whatever. But start journaling ideas from 180's, and write about your plans and progress on those.

I also can't recommend detaching and GAL enough. Be relentless in this. If you look at my posts on my thread tonight, I might sound like a hypocrite (I had a meltdown after I found out from her that a therapist hit on her for quite some time at a party, and they talked a while today), but this has been the best thing for me. I can't imagine how miserable I'd be right now if I had not been pursuing these over the last few weeks. And don't fret if you don't feel happier or detached at first...it took me 2-3 weeks of effort to start to feel it.

[Seattle]

Thanks I appreciate the perspective. I suspect you are right.

She is asking if she can come over tomorrow night to hang out. Do I try and find an activity for us to do together? How should we spend the time?

I spoke to a mutual friend tonight who talked with her on sunday. Sounds like W is feeling like we have a lot going for us except has not felt the passion for a while. And that is a big deal for her. She seemed to say this is less about something i did vs her having the confidence to stand up for how she feels.

I believe the passion is something we can work on if we both choose to. Right now she isnt choosing to work on that.

Our friend said i need to be patient and give her time.

[Seattle]

She is going to come over tomorrow night and bring dinner. I am hoping to keep things cool. Following this general plan:
-Be confident, sexy
-Acting outcome independent
-Validate her feelings
-Listen to her
-Look her in the eyes
-Connect with her emotionally by agreeing with her
-Do not criticize
-Be interested in her
-Do not get sad or bring up the relationship

Also, @card29: Agree will try and make the porn thing a 180 for me. I have been looking deeply inside myself recently and discovered areas that I need to work on. Specifically: I can be anxious, i dont listen/try to get my way, and I dont focus enough on her to allow us to build an emotional bond. I havent been opening my heart up to her. Now I worry that it is too late and she is gone. She used to look at me with this doe-eyed amazement and was always excited to see me and be with me. Now she thinks of me like her brother.

She rarely wanted to hold hands with me. We failed at building and maintaining intimacy over time. I stopped trying to be sexy for her. I took her for granted. I criticized her. She never told me how she was feeling. I felt disconnected at various points and questioned whether i made the right decision to marry her - and mostly it was about sex. We lived as roommates for a while when we were both busy.

I focused on us having a good time. Not building and maintaining intimacy. Sex was always about what she was wearing. It wasnt about her and me. I was selfish. I didnt connect with her physically enough when there were so many opportunities to. I took her love for me for granted. The porn removed me emotionally even more.

I am a huge [censored] idiot.

[GoatGal]

Seattle,

It takes a big man to say what you just did here ^^^^.

That humility is a HUGE thing to be able to express.

Just my two cents, your idea of connecting with your W on an emotional level is on the right track.

We ladies usually like to feel emotionally close as a precursor to ML.
THAT's how you win back her heart. Put the sex on the back burner in all aspects right now.

Now of course in your sitch, you can't pursue.

BUT.
You CAN really work the heck out of validating her, listening to her, drawing her out a bit.
Not about your R or things she might be doing...but to show her you care.
You can bet OM is acting extremely interested in her... that's very compelling when she's felt alienated and under-appreciated.


"Tell me more..."

"I didn't realize you felt that way. I see now where I made some real mistakes..."

Men usually don't talk this way. But you can.

Show some of that humility and vulnerability, mixed with a good, strong, confident man who is making changes to be a better partner.

Be the man who "gets it."

Oh yeah.
Also be the cool guy.
Because you're too busy living your life to be sitting home crying into your beer.
Or distilled water.
Dress cool, smell great... Totally DBing!

In your case, I wouldn't go really dark and definitely wouldn't want you to come off as cold. But GALing, yes. PMA, definitely.
I'd be there for her a bit for support--but NOT about OM or fixing things for her.

Strong boundaries with OM talk, whatever you feel is appropriate with her behavior around YOU.

That would be hard to resist, in my opinion.

I think you're off to a good start.

---GGG

[Seattle]

Just checked W's phone logs from last night. I know I shouldnt but I cannot help it.

The good news is that she spoke with a therapist that was recommended to her. So hopefully something gets scheduled there.

The bad news is that she called a lawyer.

I am freaking out. She is supposed to come over tonight to hang out and eat dinner with me at the house. My plan was to focus on all of the things mentioned above (admiration, focus on her, confidence, PMA, etc).

I am just worried that she is already checked out, having feelings for OM and is not interested in trying to salvage our marriage.

Given that we dont have kids I feel like she thinks this is just easy.

This is all happening so quickly. I am feeling out of control. I understand that things will get better one way or the other but man this really [censored] right now. I was feeling fine until I saw that she called the lawyer.

Thoughts on what I should do? Anything?

[mindsin]

Easier said than done, but try not to focus on her feelings toward the OM. You have no control over that, and any attempts to try to control will likely backfire.

[Dpthght]

First off, stop snooping. I did it initially (actually glad I did because it confirmed OM) and since then I haven't looked AT ALL. I came home from a trip on Sunday and she left her phone at the house, didn't even pick it up, and to be honest didn't really want to. Everything you read when you snoop will work against you (even good news).

When she comes over enjoy her company and be the man only a fool would leave. I would recommend you do something different when she is over. Did you ever talk walks together? If not, do that! Change it up a little.

Have you called a lawyer? I would at least consult one just to find out your rights in your state. The fact she called one means nothing and she is only preparing herself if she has to walk down that path. Don't tell her you know.