Can I just ask - is this something that's true? Did you do this? Or is this a new idea on the scene? If it's true, you have some work to do, my friend.
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but how does one transition from Dark and LRT ... toward starting to connect again .... through all this she has changed so much and I know our old M died with the BD last year, I am all for a new and better relationship/M with her and willing to put in all the work required, but for now ... we have to connect again, have to see if the new versions of us have chemistry
How? You just do. It takes two people willing to do that. Two people willing to connect with one another.
Sometimes one person has to take the risk that they will get hurt and drop their barriers. Sometimes it just takes a little step and then the other takes a step and then the other takes a step and then... But somebody has to go first and risk it. And it has to be received and reciprocated.
You know what you want. Can you see a way to get it if the two of you participate? Are you able to put your hurt aside (it's what you're asking for from her, right?) and find a way?
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Can I just ask - is this something that's true? Did you do this? Or is this a new idea on the scene? If it's true, you have some work to do, my friend.
In all honesty .. I have looked at my actions and contributions, I was exhausted working the 2 jobs, was not always there for her, would often be angry ... these are things I have worked on and made progress. But I am not controlling, I do know that the things I say really impacts her, but its not like I have ever controlled her, never told her what she could and couldnt do, just not my way. I think this is one of her issues but one I know I need to be sensitive about, and thats really all I can do here.
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How? You just do. It takes two people willing to do that. Two people willing to connect with one another.
Sometimes one person has to take the risk that they will get hurt and drop their barriers. Sometimes it just takes a little step and then the other takes a step and then the other takes a step and then... But somebody has to go first and risk it. And it has to be received and reciprocated.
You know what you want. Can you see a way to get it if the two of you participate? Are you able to put your hurt aside (it's what you're asking for from her, right?) and find a way?
AJ
AJ I think you are on point here, I guess its just that transition, small steps with out scaring her off that I need to do. and it does seem we are making some good progress over the past couple weeks.
Thank you for your input here, sometimes this DBing thing you are so set on the LRT and there is no set guideline on when to back off on it and start opening that door a bit wider for the WAS just so they can relax and possibly start the healing process ... understandable as similar as our sitchs are .. they are equally different ... some things work for one would set someone else back very far.
So, yesterday I was not feeling well, called my Dr and told her whats going on ... and she wanted me to go straight to ER. Off I went ... let W know as she was pressuring me to call and get an appt etc .... in a strange sick way, it was like old times, her naggin me to do something, nagging because she cares. (I take this as a positive) SO I get to ER , let her know I was there ... once inside I had no service, finally after 6 hours of tests and all that they released me, W left several TM and a couple VM ... I TM her back apologizing that there was no service, and I was on my way to get S .... she called asking what happened, I told her. she offered to keep S for the night but I told her I was ok and knew she had things going on ... but thanked her for the gesture. S called as normal, she told him to give me a big hug, and to pray for me ... again .. not reading into it but I do feel like this is good, was not long ago she said she felt nothing for me ... but this shows otherwise. I drop S off this morning, she gave me a big hug and told me how worried she was about me, I reassured her I was ok, just not feeling well and I would be fine, she asked what was on my mind .. ofcourse I wanted to tell her that I just wish we were together and past this but I didnt I just avoided the R talk ... she later told me that she was trying (Not sure, but she does seem to be letting the guard down a bit as of late, I have not been cold .. just cautious) ..... I remembered to wish her well on her phone interview and told her good luck and I believed in her (Got that from a sermon and it really seemed to be the right things to say to her, especially at that time and she really seemed to appreciate it.) She has TM a bit today, inviting me to Legoland with S, telling me about the potential new job, also the fact she needs to come up with alot of $$ for her brother, I did offer to look into my 401K ... I do want to help and am not doing it just to gain favor, I let it go after I offered figured she would need to think about it.
So ... all things considered .. I think my little trip to the ER did reveal she does care, I do get the feeling she hates being alone, but I know she has much to go through, a few tunnels yet to travel ... as I too have things I still need to work on. God willing, I pray we can get through all this and begin a new life ... I hold out hope for that and I know its a long ways away but looking at my calendar .... this month is full of + marks ... has only one - and that was PMS day, a day I handled better than in the past now atleast tracking these things gives me a small warning notice and allows me to at the least make it to the spew center.lol.
CaliGuy, that's funny -- I was ER this week too (turned out to be gas, not appendicitis, which was a bit embarrassing). My H was also concerned and super nice to me about it. HOWEVER, I read that as him thinking of me as family or a friend. We often read into these situations what we want to believe. As much as I'd like to believe his show of concern means that there is part of him that loves and wants to be with me, I know better. I'm sure your W does care, but it may not mean that she's interested in being your W, sadly. Don't mean to burst your bubble, just think we should all "have no expectations." At the very least, it's good to know that she cares -- even if it's just as a friend or as the father of your son. (My H said that he cared about me as the mother of our daughter after, so I think the message is pretty clear.) It's nice to have her guard down, either way, so you don't have that tension in your life. Best of luck.
Last edited by Ahoy; 09/12/1405:19 PM.
M: 43 H: 39 D: 14 Married 15 Together 16 BD: 6/2014 S: 8/2014 OW revealed 10/2014 Instigated dissolution 12/2014, in progress So over it!
I totally get where you are coming from, but there was a time when she would not even show this kind of emotion .... let alone say it. I do not have any expectations, it was more of an observation that all the DBing that I have done, doing what works and not allowing her to bait me into fights, staying positive, 180's .... GAL have been working and have lead me to this point, she is openly communicating with me about S, everyday life, her job, her family, she has started letting me in again, rebuilding the connection is the stage I am at now. Sure there is alot more work to do ... but this is WAY better than the place I was in 6-8 months ago. Long journey ... but there have been a good deal of positives to justify the DB actions I have performed to this point.
So I worked Friday night as usual, felt like death but made it through the night. Saturday I was completely sick, back was killing me, same throbbing headache I have fought for a week now, I ended up getting sick and was basically down and out the entire day. W texted me all through the day, being in and out I basically was dark, I would reply when I woke but would go back down and reply in like 3-5 hour intervals. W actually offered I come over so she could take care of me .... in a way I seen this as a nice gesture, on te other hand I was angry, alone, and sick ... I never get sick but I realized just how alone I am if there is something serious.
So Sunday I am doing a bit better, W offered to keep S ... I told her its my day and I missed him, so we agreed to meet up at mass. Her brothers trial is in 2 weeks and its not looking good, so just like that .. after church (which went well) she starts in her spew tantrum, telling me to keep S , he doesnt love her, she is a shitty mom who ruined the family because she was in a shitty marriage .... Months ago I would have taken the bait and fought back, however I validated, did not engage, and told her I knew that her brothers sitch was very horrible and I was sorry that its been so hard on her, if she wanted to just talk I was available. Seemed to calm her down ... maybe just the fact I was able to tell that the issues she was spewing about were not the issues that really has her upset. She told me thanks and apologized for her actions ... said she was going to watch a movie with our babysitter from some time ago .... not certain I believe her ... just assuming they are lying takes the sting out of things. She did TM at 10:30 saying the girl had just left .... not reading into it, in a way I don't really care ... just a little bitter atm.
Went to a store with S later, he pointed out a Pumkin Snoopy doll, told me how W loves snoopy, so we went ahead and bought it and gave it to her this morning, well ... he gave it to her, and I just kind of sat back .... she asked me what was wrong and I told her I still wasn't feeling well , have her a one arm hug and told her good luck on the interview. She later TM me to let her know about my Dr appt, shared some day to day talk ... then later thanked me for the snoopy and said "it was really nice of you"
So ... even when she has looked for a fight I have gone all matrix on that ... doing well in that area, but today I just asked myself during my walk, how much do I go with this.... I want my wife back but all things considered, what she has done, how she treated me ... will she ever love me back, she takes and uses me because I let her, I am not sure I will ever be enough for her, who wants a life like that? I have this rope in my hand and I am just not so sure anymore if I want this M. She has been very nice over the past week or so .... maybe she just wants to be friends and co-parent ... that's not what I want or need .... I've been alone for the entire time as she was involved in an A, now it seems she is starting to work on herself and ... again I am alone ... it just really hit home in the ER I have no one ... stung badly.
Ok .. /vent
PMA, GAL , continue to 180 .... maybe press the issue at the end of the month. Either lets work on this .. or I drop the rope. I do not want to waste much more time on something that only 1 of us wants, I feel I have made a good number of improvements, I realize she may not trust/believe them ... that's fine .. but I am not getting any younger and I will never be over her if I keep hanging on to just an ounce of hope.
Ok ... so I am still fighting whatever it is I have going on. W seems to be engaging more via text, asking how my day was, how I'm feeling. Telling me about her interview and the possible new job. Then asked to talk to S before her therapy appt .... late, like 7:00 pm .. not sure if she really is going or not, I asked this morning how it went and she got firm and said she didn't want to talk about it ... so either she is lying or she might just be starting to dig into some issues ... either way I wasn't really moved so maybe my detach is finally removing me emotionally from all that.
Its strange, I have been listening to my sermons as I have been for the past year or so, and strangely they really seem to talk to me. The one said that biblically one has a choice to divorce only if adultery was committed, showing just how damaging that could be ... he said you have 2 choices, divorce , or forgive. Then a thought jumped into my head ..... can you forgive someone for something like that when they don't even show remorse??
I think she is about to enter that tunnel where she has to come to terms with the damage she caused, I have been questioning as of late ... Do I want this? can we be better and move on or will this always be an issue? Can I really let it go ?... especially with the hurtful things she said during the psycho phase... I am the one who needs to come to terms with these things, and as bad as it is ... there is that part of me that wants her to hurt a bit .. I know its wrong ... and maybe its just a bout of anger/frustration where she gets to do as she wants and its everyone else around her who pays for her selfishness.
Maybe its the realization that my birthday is in a week, and marks the 1 year point of where is was apparent things were wrong, the card she gave me did not have the ILY, we went out but she was just going through the motions, all the pictures were of her on her phone ... looking back that stings. Also ... its a reminder that I am not getting any younger. Flip side, without this I would not have been drawn closer to God, I would not have been driven to GAL and start enjoying things I wanted to enjoy, the Harley, sports, appreciating what I have, and in a sense finding me and giving myself some goals and direction.
ok ok ... end rant
So ... I have been a touch dark, not so much our of spite, just due to the fact I am not feeling well and honestly just not in the mood to talk/TM. I dropped of S this morning, she asked me how I was feeling, I told her better but still dealing with it. I realized I forgot to do S's hair and he had spilled yogurt on his school shirt so I told her he needed to change and I would do his hair ... this type of thing would typically set her off ... but lately she seems to not be as angry with me, she told me it was ok but I insisted on making sure everything was all taken care of. After I asked her if she could take him tonight ... earlier I had told her I was open to watching him Sun Mon & Thurs .. but could take Tue if needed .... I forgot I scheduled classes with the Church months ago and tonight it starts. She might have a 2nd interview ... So I calmly told her I could watch him if need be but would really like to go to these classes (GAL and 180 for me ... She is catholic, as is our S ... he attends a catholic school so a few months ago I figured ... I go to catholic mass every week and feel comfortable .. I might as well become catholic)
Hi Cali, The answer to all the questions about "Can I ever forgive her?"...that's what is meant when they say, in the end, it's really up to the LBS IF the MLCer ever comes out of the tunnel, whether or not you will ever have a R and if so, what kind. I'm glad your W has been better lately, seeming to care, etc. Just try to keep in mind that that can change quickly and probably will even if she is "coming out" of her crisis. It doesn't happen in a straight line and they will go back and revisit all the stages one last time before coming out (again, if that is where she is even at).
You are a lot like me when I was at your stage in my W's MLC. She would start to act different, be more involved, text me, want to go to lunch when she was close to my work for a conference, etc. Heck, we even ML'd a couple times (this when at the beginning I couldn't even touch her leg without her freaking out). It never lasted more than a few weeks. Something (usually something I had no part of) would happen and it was right back to the blaming me for her being "unhappy".
Just be careful, Cali. By expecting NOTHING but enjoying whatever "good" interactions you have you are better off. I hope you start feeling better soon!
Then a thought jumped into my head ..... can you forgive someone for something like that when they don't even show remorse??
Forgiveness has nothing to do with what the offender thinks or feels. It's for YOU, not them. Forgiveness relieves YOU from carrying their burden...do you want to carry those negative feelings the rest of your life?
Negative feelings such as anger, bitterness, etc, are a HUGE, heavy anchor, they drag you down into the water, sucking life from you, for free.
You want to give your W that kind of power over you, and your life? Why?
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I have been questioning as of late ... Do I want this? can we be better and move on or will this always be an issue? Can I really let it go ?... especially with the hurtful things she said during the psycho phase... I am the one who needs to come to terms with these things, and as bad as it is ... there is that part of me that wants her to hurt a bit .. I know its wrong ... and maybe its just a bout of anger/frustration where she gets to do as she wants and its everyone else around her who pays for her selfishness.
Now you are getting to the beginning of the work that you need to do.
My stbxw doesn't remember the bulk of the spew and venom she said to me, and some to the kids. She has started to remeber some, last I knew, but you know? It doesn't matter.
You can choose to take the spewing from a mentally unbalanced person personally, if you want, but why?
This far down my road I see it for what it was, it doesn't hurt anymore. I re-framed it into my experience interning in a pysch ward... I didn't let the patients crazy talk and spew affect me because? (psst...they were mentally/emotionally unbalanced)
There are a lot of personal "why's" we LBS have to dig into and answer ourselves honestly, that have NOTHING to do with the WAS. It's tough, but all so, so worth it.
Hope you are feeling better soon and hang in there!
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Hi Cali, The answer to all the questions about "Can I ever forgive her?"...that's what is meant when they say, in the end, it's really up to the LBS IF the MLCer ever comes out of the tunnel, whether or not you will ever have a R and if so, what kind. I'm glad your W has been better lately, seeming to care, etc. Just try to keep in mind that that can change quickly and probably will even if she is "coming out" of her crisis. It doesn't happen in a straight line and they will go back and revisit all the stages one last time before coming out (again, if that is where she is even at).
You are a lot like me when I was at your stage in my W's MLC. She would start to act different, be more involved, text me, want to go to lunch when she was close to my work for a conference, etc. Heck, we even ML'd a couple times (this when at the beginning I couldn't even touch her leg without her freaking out). It never lasted more than a few weeks. Something (usually something I had no part of) would happen and it was right back to the blaming me for her being "unhappy".
Just be careful, Cali. By expecting NOTHING but enjoying whatever "good" interactions you have you are better off. I hope you start feeling better soon!
Matt ... yeah I am all to aware that the R we had died last year, and I have been wrestling with where this all goes, knowing she uses me as an emotional crutch .... and the thing I may/may not have said ... W and I had not ML for about 3 years, I was lead to believe it was medical ... then 2-3 months after OM was discovered she calls me on the way to the Dr office fearing she had an STD ... so I am dealing with the hurt from that, something I think I will start working on with my IC.
However, the past few weeks she has been slowly making more of an effort to contact me, ask how I am, she did say the other day she was scared I was going to die as I am never sick, let alone THAT ill where I would have gone to ER ... she is right .. my reputation with Doctors/Hospitals is well known. I will not mind read, but the few times I was ready to walk/ let go she goes hysterical pleading that she needs me.
Thanks for the advice, and I do not really expect anything, detaching better as of late and just observing ..... I reall ythink there is little I can do at this point, she is going to IC and has some issues she needs to get through, and it will not be easy ... I think of a few things I have read, I need to be the rock, the lighthouse ... and just stay the course. I am FAR better off today and in the now than I was in Jan/March/May ... I am very thankful for that.
