Your girls are watching. Don't worry about what they see with stbxw-that's their relationship and they will figure that out. It is extremely painful to watch your kids struggle and suffer. However , you need to be their example. Dignity, humility, grace, compassion... You must be the rock for your girls.
Please don't try to *show* them what living with their mother is like. They will see it all for themselves.
Right the ship!!! You ARE so much better than this.
3 kids BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. ) Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style D final 9-9-14 "Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
OK, I get it. I actually am glad for the 4x8. Like I said in my first post about this "I made the mistake of talking to....". I understand that those guys just don't know what they are talking about, have no idea about what is really happening or what is the right thing to do. BUT...sometimes when you have people who actually seem to care pushing you, while at the same time things just aren't getting ANY better (worse in some ways) no matter what I seem to do, you start to question whether you're doing the right thing. And they were very insistent, played on my already hurt ego (just like you said). This is why I HAD to run it by everyone here. When what they were saying started to make sense to me the better part of me didn't agree!
Well, I guess that is what this board is for. It's just that sometimes, when things just don't change, only seem to get worse, even things that you never would thought you would do or think start to make sense. That's when you start to question yourself. I've tried so hard to be decent, understanding of why my W is doing the things she is, to keep the damage to my girls to a min. while my W just mows anyone down that stands in her way. It's just that she NEVER seems to give me a break, a chance to make some forward progress. Every time that I start to think that maybe things will get better, she does something new to knock me back again. Maybe I got a little punch drunk!
Thanks everyone. You are right I am better than this. Hey, it could have been worse, I could have just taken their "advice" and ran with it. Of course if I had done that, I would have felt like I had stooped to my W's level of selfishness. Impossible unless you are in "crisis" because unless you are, the guilt will eat you up alive! Funny how badly I feel for just thinking about doing something like this, can you imagine how an MLCer must feel once they leave the tunnel and actually see the damage they have caused? Kind of gives one a taste of why it is hard for them to deal with the guilt. The amount of shame that they feel must be incredible!
Thanks again everyone! I'm so glad you all were there to bring me back down to earth BEFORE I did something I REALLY would have regretted. You are all the best!
It's just that sometimes, when things just don't change, only seem to get worse, even things that you never would thought you would do or think start to make sense.
And that, Matt, is why I strongly suggest you make up your mind about your actions and what you are going to look back and see. That, and this
Quote:
can you imagine how an MLCer must feel once they leave the tunnel and actually see the damage they have caused? Kind of gives one a taste of why it is hard for them to deal with the guilt. The amount of shame that they feel must be incredible!
If you were nuts, you wouldn't care. If you were so scared or otherwise impaired, you wouldn't care. But you are not. You have the honor of being sane and taking care of your children. Of showing them how to live a life worth living. How to forgive. How to be a decent human being.
There are times when that is thankless. That doesn't make it any less important. It makes it a point in time and nothing more.
Want to help yourself? Think beyond yourself. Think about how this all affects your children. Think how you can help them.
You? You'll be more than fine. Your children? They need help to be fine.
Do whatever you have to do to keep the kids out of it. I've made the mistake of allowing my ex to drag me into conversations that the kids heard. Years later that still comes up with the kids. My action since? My ex's H drags my daughter into email conversations she shouldn't be part of. I don't participate in the conversations. Period. I don't participate in conversations with my ex. Period. I don't try to "get back" at her or him. I don't try to defend anything.
It's one way I can help my kids deal with all of this. There were times I'd like to do more and be offensive. But I know that would not be helpful to them. I don't need to respond to anger or crazy. My ex has that market cornered enough for all concerned
It can make you crazy, Matt if you forget what you're about. But if you make up your mind what you're going to do, things will be a LOT better for you and the kids.
Later, your kids may thank you. And your boss and co-worker? They may ask for advice. For now, it's your road to walk and you need to decide how you'll walk it and what you want to see when you look back so you're not tempted to take others' advice. Even mine
Peace brother, AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
To add to AJ's wisdom ^^^^... Matt, remember that Mach guy? Those questions he, AJ, myself and others were asking you...those "wtf?", brain hurting, unfair and annoying questions, back when you first started posting?
Those questions were designed to get you to where AJ said you need to be ^^^^.
You are at a pivotal moment in your life right freaking NOW...how you handle this will either haunt you with regret the rest of your life, or be one of the most positive, pivotal changes in your life, that you can look back on with peace, and maybe some pride.
NOW you need to figure out what kind of man, father, human being you are, want to be and are going to be.
And those questions we threw at you in the beginning?
They are your path to discovering that.
I am asking you to go back to your first threads, find those questions, print them up if you have to, one post per page, and REALLY look into that dude in the mirror.
Your stbxw has no say in who that dude in the mirror becomes any more.
It's ALL on YOU now.
I'm going to re-post from my thread my response to you and Mighty:
Quote:
Matt and Mighty, some realizations came to me since June, granted I've had 3 years (BD #1 anniversary this month) to come to terms with the possible loss of my M, these still came fast and hard, because though I don't easily quit, once I do get to the point of futility, I drop the rope fast and hard. Here is what came to me:
She's gone.
I need to heal, I have kids full time, work 40-60 hours a week, I am taxi and school bus service, and I have a disaster of a house to remedy, etc... Like the Van Halen line from the song "Ain't Talking About Love" goes... "I got no time to mess around..."
I had to see my life without her, hard as that was.
My healing has nothing to do with her anymore.
Nothing she can do or say is going to change how I feel. It's about me.
It's up to ME.
So I re-framed this into "as if" she died.
Absolutely no chance of reconciliation, her changing her mind, etc.
How does that change how I feel?
How does that change MY ACTIONS in recovering, healing myself and my kids, getting to the needful?
Life is for the living, and my kids and I are far too blessed to be waiting around for a ghost to maybe re-appear and be re-incorporate, meanwhile life passes by.
That mindset change gave me strength and determination to do the right things for my sons and myself. To tackle the hoarders hoard, organize, super-clean, create the NEW normal in a positive, healthy way. My kids deserved it, and it was completely up to ME to make it happen.
You can do this.
Last edited by TSquared2; 09/07/1412:37 AM.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Thanks AJ and T2, Well, W came over at about 2:00 PM. She just left 20 min.'s ago.(that means that she was here over 7 hours!) I had ALL her books out in the living room and ready for her to "go thru". She starts doing that as I settle in with my D14. I was very nice, upbeat, friendly. W takes A LOT of time doing the books, seems to be feeling me out. Then comes what I expected...she just drops that she is coming by tomorrow with her BFF and BFF's boyfriend (who have a truck). Well, what does she need a truck for?, I ask. She says that she wanted to take the kitchen table (which I expected. Her grand father made it and we have an old one that we bought when we first got married that I can use). OK, so now I KNOW that she is wanting something else! So, a little later she says "I would like to take the book shelf, too". OK, this bothers me. With that, she has now taken EVERY good piece of furniture we owned! All the antiques and all the best and newest pieces! And the D isn't even final! I let her know that I don't like it, that it's something I really wanted myself but she keeps calm and actually speaks to me without losing her cool and running around screaming. She calmly made a case for why she WANTS it (didn't say how she's "entitled" to it), how I have a couple other, nice book shelves, etc. I actually would have liked to keep it but, as I've said before, I'm not really concerned about the "stuff". I decided that since she ASKED and didn't DEMAND, I told her that she could have it.
She also went through and took some of her clothes that I have wanted her to take since it takes up most of my bedroom closet! Went through her kitchen stuff and actually was decent about what she took (more than she should have but nothing I really cared much about). She than said that we need to make plans to take a day and go through all the remaining things we have from 26 years together and decide what we want and what we will give to Good Will, who gets what, etc. All this time we were talking and she was being a lot like the old her (although a bit tense and talking mostly about herself and her "new" home). As it got later I asked if she wanted a burger as I was going to grill some for D14 and myself. She accepted and we ate together.
I helped her pack her car and when it started to rain, she came back in and killed time going through a bunch of socks that came out of the wash without a mate and gloves that did the same and paired a bunch all while sitting on the floor while my D14 and I watched some TV and talked to each other and my W. This was the most decent time we have spent together since she left. Of course, if I had tried to tell her not to take the book shelf or any of the things that she did, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have gone so well. I really don't like that she TOLD me she was coming again tomorrow, didn't ask if it was a good time for me (it really isn't what I had planned on doing). She didn't just come to go through her books like she said she was AND some things have come up with my D14 that I will talk about in another post that I really don't like but my W is putting her up to doing. But, all in all, it wasn't that bad. I was relaxed, I didn't let her get to me (there were a few times that she did bait me but I didn't bite) and she was nicer than she has been in a long time (although like I said, she did get her way so who knows what would have happened if I had said no to her taking something she wants). I just hope that things go as well tomorrow. I tried to make sure it will (as much as that is possible with MLCer) by asking more than once EXACTLY what she planned on taking. As long as that stays the case It shouldn't be too bad.
Now if only things with my D14 were going near as well. That's for another post!
hi Matt, just as I thought, you've had quite a bit of 'action' going on. Glad to read of the good advice re: your girls. Children 'make children of us' - I saw it w/my sibling's divorce.
The insecurity of the two due to the lack of trust. We love our children. We want them to want us ... if we were sure we wouldn't lose them ('guaranteed'), we might feel differently. It isn't like that - it a 'war'. There is no trust, there is manipulation, so of course we feel desperate! We love our children, we WANT them to be with us and to 'want us back' in return. They 'have' us ... ! We may be adult re: other sitch. but with the love we have for our children, it is emotional. Human nature I guess.
pb ps just hinted at mine (I got a shy gesture."wants the family") Take care Matt
pbetra ---- M: 15 yrs (in 2014) BD: 6/03/2014 Infidelity ('known' from July 2014) Denied PA Feb 2015 2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact. Back briefly 2017 (after family death) Separated 2017
Thanks for stopping by pbetra! Well, W came again today. With her BFF and BFF's boyfriend. She knows that it was important that I watch the game and told me that she would be here and gone before 12:00 noon. Well, she didn't show until 1/2 way through half time! I missed all of the 3rd qrt. because she couldn't do what she said. Entitlement at it's best! To my surprise, D14 didn't even bother to come out of her bedroom to see her mother. In fact she waited until it was quiet and asked if they had left before coming out! Umm...that was odd. More than that, W again, after I tried to make sure she wouldn't, took a lot more than she said she was going to! Again! I swear she won't be satisfied until she has everything SHE wants and doesn't care a bit what is best for me. Of course to hear her, I'm just so much better off without "stuff" (take your own dam advice, woman!). She even took the flower pots from the deck! She is just ridiculous!
Of course, I was nice, kept my cool about the game and the extra stuff. I will say this, my W stayed as far away from me as possible. It was weird, it was almost like she was afraid I might actually touch her or something. She stayed at arms length. Yesterday she didn't have the deer in the headlights look in eyes that she has had almost every time I've seen her since she left, today she did. Her BFF commented to me about my making burgers yesterday while looking at my W and smiling. Umm, I wonder if W saw that as "pursuing"? It wasn't, it was just what I would do if I had a guest over. Who knows what's going on in my W's head, I sure don't and I really don't care. I think she thinks that I care much more about her or what she's doing than I really do. I will say this, she looks awful. She is STILL losing weight, she looks tired and haggard with big circles under her eyes. She hasn't seen her father in more than a week and I have noticed that the longer she is away from him, the nicer she is. Thankfully, she didn't stay any where near as long as yesterday and we got through it without her getting upset and screaming once again. (When my W started to get more things to take than we agreed to, her BFF actually called her on it! She used humor, but she gave me a look like she understood that W was pushing before she said it. Maybe W is starting to listen a little bit to people who tell her she is going too far? Naw, that can't be right!)
Well, a problem has come up with my D14. She is wanting to go back to her mom's house each day after school, to "relax and do her homework". When I told her that I was planning on picking her up from school each day and she can do her homework here, she got upset, saying she didn't want to do that. I told her that by the time she gets to her mom's (she will have to walk) I will be there to pick her up even if I left work my normal time! She said that since her school doesn't have lockers (stupid!) she has 2 sets of books...one for school, one she keeps at home for homework. That makes no sense to me. Where does she leave her "school" books if she doesn't have a locker? Why not just bring her home set of books with her for the week? When I was talking, her mother chimed in saying that she thought my D14 was fine doing this, it gives me more time if I want to stay late at work (that's HER thing, not mine. I want to be with my D, want to help her with her homework, etc.). It's like she's encouraging my D14 to see HER home as MORE of her home than mine! In fact I'm fairly sure this is what she is doing from what she is saying. I know D14 hasn't been feeling like her mothers house is "home" and I think my W doesn't like this and is telling her all the things about going to her home every day.
I don't like it. I want my D to be with ME, not at her mom's. To feel like my home (her home all of her life!) is as much her REAL home as her mothers. What she is asking just doesn't make sense except to my W and a 14 year old! I want to just tell my D that she needs to bring her books with her when she comes here and I will pick her up. It just doesn't make sense and by the time she gets to her mothers, I will be there and I'm not wanting to wait around while she does her homework. I don't want to upset her and I know her mother won't back me but I feel it's something I need to do. What do you guys think? I don't think I am overreacting or am being a pain. D14 needs to see my home as as much a home as her mothers. I think this has more to do with the fact that D14 spent the first 2 weeks of school at her mothers. I think she was so scared and she made certain habits to have stability and she wants to keep those routines. I wouldn't be surprised if soon my W will start trying to get D14 to say it's easier if she just stays there during the week during the school year! I really think this is what my W is working for. Not because my W wants her there of course. She just wants D14 to not be angry for ending the M and family and is jealous when she thinks my D is happier with me more than her. I really need to get this under control right away before it gets out of hand.
I would really like to know what you all think. If you have had to deal with this kind of thing and what you did. Thanks!
OK, I really need some help here people. It's like all my worst fears are coming true and I'm losing my D14. So, today is day one of my taking her to school. Because her mother moved 30 miles away and put D14 into school that is close to her, D14 (who is a definitely NOT a morning person!) can take her time and sleep later in the AM when with her mother. Of course this wouldn't be the case if she had to walk to school which she would have had to more than 1/2 the time except that I came and picked her up and took her when she was staying with her mother. So, she doesn't understand that she would be having to get up at the same time as when she has to when with me if I wasn't there to "help' her mom by putting myself out and getting her to school when her mother "can't". As far as D14 knows, when at her mom's she can always sleep later.
This morning I tried to get her moving and ready on time. She got up in time (I thought) but there is just so much she seems to need to do to get ready! Make-up, clothes, hair, who knows what, that she wasn't ready when it was time to leave. She get's crabby in the morning and there is no rushing her without a fight. By the time she got ready it was 20 min.'s past when I wanted to leave! Of course once we get in the car and are going she says "Is there any way that you can get there any faster?". So, I tell her calmly that we just need to leave 15 min's earlier and we would be fine. Just like I thought she would, she got angry (something she has learned from her mother) and said "I got up before 7:00 AM! How early do I need to get up?". I say calmly again "Well, it's 30 miles away and we need time to get there". I got back from her.. "Mom lives 4 min's from school....". Look kid, it's not MY fault your mother moved away, put you in a school you didn't want to go to, put you in a school so far from me and still wants you to live 7 days with me, 7 days with her! What I SAID was "D14, it wasn't my choice for your mom to move so far away. She didn't think about me or you and what it would mean when you stayed with me. She moved there because it's where all her friends live, not because she wanted you to be closer to school so you could sleep later". It was the closest thing to me saying something "bad" about her mother and her choices since this all started!
So, we got there 2 min's late so she will be in trouble. It will mean a tardy and who knows what they do if you get too many of those at public school? Add to this the fact that her and her mother are saying that she should go home after school when she's staying with me to do homework before I pick her up and it just adds to what I KNOW is coming....D14 saying she should just stay with her mother during the week when school is in session! I can see it coming. My W is manipulating her to see HER house as D14's "real" home and mine as not. She doesn't even need to put herself out as I have been coming and getting her in the morning when W doesn't "feel" like it so D14 doesn't see what relying on her mother (who doesn't really care to put herself out) is really like.
I know what's happening, I can see it coming. I just don't know what to do about it! I don't want to do what the people I work with suggested and just not take her in the AM when she is with her mother or not take her places when she's with her mom if her mom can't (or won't) do it. But I just don't know how else to block her mothers effort to make D14 see HER place as her "real" home while pushing me more and more out of D14's life. I already am at a disadvantage because W isn't helping keep me in the loop with school things. I was hoping that once I started picking her up from school, I would start getting all the info and hand outs from teacher at least on my weeks but now D14 wants to go to her mom's before I get her and she will just leave that stuff there. Other than putting my foot down and telling D14 I am getting her from school and that's that how to put a stop to this. Any thoughts?
I went through similar situation last year. First off your daughters behavior is normal for her age. Some kids are better some are worse. It will get betting in time and you have to wait it it.
You need to step back and detach a bit. You need to stop saying negative things to your daughter regarding her mom. She may choose to live with her mom more of the time right now. Keep calm. Don't threaten or coerce. Be the stable one who is the best dad he can be and is always there for her. In time she will see that there is something wrong her mother. Friends may even point it out to her. When it happens you will see a shift back in your direction. She will never say anything bad about her mother so don't look for it. Her actions will speak louder than her words. This will hurt really bad at first. But keep in mind she will come back to you if you do the right things. Don't panic. I can say this with the utmost confidence because this is the advice I received and it has come to pass.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
