Thank you all so much. You all have such great ideas and it really helps to know that someone out there cares enough to take the time to help.
I woke this morning to my W texting me about money! She makes $8,000 a month and I'm avg. about $2,000 right now and she is all upset because she thinks that using the health savings account (that was full when she left) is still her using "her" money. You know this is a community property state and half that money belongs to me up until she and I are D. I course, she wouldn't see it that way since it's through her work. She starts out asking me to pay for D19's prescription and telling me that she just bought our D14 contacts and put $30.00 into her school lunch card and took both D's to the Dr. and how it isn't "fair". I text her back that I just bought D19 contacts (her mother refused to do it) and that is a lot for me right now. I point out that she has access to the HSA to pay for both girls scripts. I tell her that I need to find out how to add to D14's school lunch card as the web site isn't very good. I said as long as D19's script isn't one of the really expensive ones (she has had $300 ones in the past) that I would pay. I ended saying that when D14 lives with me I'll try and see if she would take her lunch. Nothing bad there. Nothing that she should get angry about. But this is a MLCer so I get back a spew about how SHE had to pay for D14 school supplies, and SHE took her to the Dr. and SHE had to buy her school clothes and that something has to change. Of course, I bought my D14 school clothes as well, my W just doesn't think about what other people have done or are doing. My D14 had all the clothes she needed for school when my W ran away. If she wants to buy her more stuff that she doesn't "need" why should I pay for it? As for my D19, I have done more for her than my W has since she left the house. I have bought her things for her apartment, food, taken her out to eat, bought her contacts while her mother has ignored her or lectured her.
So, I put on my DB cap and texted back this "I understand and I'm not saying I'm not going to pay for her contacts, lunches and stuff. I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. Just let me know where (D19's) script is and I'll find out how much it is." OK, I was calm, validated her (when I really wanted to take her head off!) and let her know that I was willing to pay for the thing she started out asking for in the first place. So, W texts back "I just think we need to talk and come up with a plan". I haven't responded to that one yet.
I have a feeling that she isn't liking this being on her own stuff. Why does she want to talk anyway? Every time we talked and came up with a plan, she went and did exactly the opposite of what she said she was going to do! She said she wasn't going to a lawyer, a week later she went to see a lawyer. She said she wasn't going to file, that we would just separate and a week later she filed. We came up with a list of things that she would get from the house and then caused a scene because she tried to take something not on that list and I asked to keep it. I told her and she agreed not to just come to MY home and take things and she still came when I wasn't home and took things! When we "talk" she can't seem to keep her word on anything that we agree to so why even bother?
I haven't responded to her last text yet. The one about talking and coming up with a plan. This is what I mean about her always causing more and more stress. I can bet that she was talking to her father and he is telling her that I need to pay more and I haven't done enough. He like to stir things up as a way to control, the a$$hat. I really don't need this right now. I'm just trying to hang on here and the last thing I need is my W starting this chit up today!
Any ideas on how I should respond to her wanting to talk text? At this point I didn't respond as what I wanted to say (about how talking to her is useless as she just does whatever SHE feels like no matter what we agree to) wouldn't really help the sitch!
Don't respond. Or tell her you'll talk with your lawyer about splitting things.
Let it go for today. Get away from the sitch. She knows she's pushing your buttons, don't let her know by reacting. I always tell my kids to step away and come back to it later.
Matt, step away and come back to it later. Go do something outside of the house and don't look at your W's texts or answer her phone calls.
Atsbaby M:36 H:35 T: 19 M:12 S:11 D:9 BD: 5/4/14 Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her 8/19 admits OW 8/22/14 files D w/o telling me 9/20/14 Says he wants to reconcile
Her father doesn't make her choices. She does. But if it helps, it is normal to see that dynamic like this in these situations. For me, it was her mother and her "new" friends. It's common to see it like that, Matt.
From experience, I can say you should not respond and that you responded too much already. For your own sake.
Two divorcing parents arguing over the expenses of an adult child? I'm in that situation to a degree, Matt. I get it. I also know that the more silence you create the more you can focus on other things. The faster you can begin to heal. If you create that space and silence.
If you're like me, you may have noticed how she gets more like this when she feels less in control. You may also have noticed the accusatory tone.
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Why does she want to talk anyway? Every time we talked and came up with a plan, she went and did exactly the opposite of what she said she was going to do!
Do you know what emotional abuse is, and how it works Matt? Do you know why you're susceptible to it, Matt? What draws you to it?
Your W is all about control and nothing else when it comes to family and friends. You are still in denial about some of that, my friend. But you are waking up to it more and more...
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Since a lot of MLCers have short term memories, I'd suggest that you ask W to email you "her plan" so that way she cannot claim that you "agreed" to it if she switches it at the last minute.
You are right Ats and AJ, I didn't respond to her last text about needing to make a "plan". I haven't heard anything since. I think the fact that she is manipulating things so she can be in "control" is so hard for me to see because it is so not like the "old" W. She has always been "shy" in the past, especially around people she didn't know very well like the other parents at our kids school. She always would say how she felt "left out" with the other mothers when it really was just they didn't know her very well. It is just so hard to see her as the manipulative, selfish person she has become. I think she has always WANTED to be like that but was held back. I and even her kids have seen how she acts so different when she is around her father. She has a total personality change when with him. She has been like that for a long time and the longer she is with him, the worse she becomes. The girls have always hated when he was around not just because of how he acted but how their MOTHER acted when with him. Like the time he excluded me and her 7 year old daughter from a party he was having for "her". There were at least a dozen people but he told me that there wasn't enough "room" for the two of us. (we were visiting him at his home out of state). I thought for sure my W would notice that we weren't there but she just let it happen. It was like she enjoyed that he only wanted HER around after all the years of not caring about her. I understand that her choices are HERS, that she chooses to do the things that her father tells her to. But I also know that all the years of abuse he doled out to her hurt her deeply and having him finally seem to want her to be a part of his life, something she has always wanted since she was 10 years old, is a strong attraction to her. Add that she's in crisis and he's using that fact to control her and she is so suppressible to his crap.
To give you an idea of how awful he STILL is, he has told my D19's cousins that she isn't worth his time, trouble or wasting his money on because she had a rebellious period. She didn't do anything really bad but HE decided she wasn't "worthy". His son has 3 D's. We have 2. Just a couple days ago he told one of his other grand kids that he has 4 grand kids to help pay for college. That means that he is excluding my oldest D19. He has offered to help all his other grand kids BUT my D19. Funny how at the same time, her mother has started to do the same thing! She keeps telling D19 how she is making wrong choices, refuses to help her even though she is able, just like her father. He has total control over my W. She has started calling his wife (the OW that broke up her parents M) her "mother". My D14 is so freaked out by it. If her REAL mother knew about this it would break her heart. Since leaving, she has had little to do with her real mother and my D14 tells me she says "mean things" about her and see's her as a "pain". Of course it doesn't help that her father is blaming her mother now for causing him to not be a part of her life when she was younger (a total lie by the way). Her father doesn't like me (probably because I always call him on his crap and never allowed him to get away with saying the awful things he always did when I was around) and my W knows I don't like him. Anyone who stands in the way of him and her being together, even if only because her father doesn't like them, must be pushed out of the way. It's a sad, ugly dynamic that is really a form of abuse from a man who a IC called "the best example of a sociopath he has ever seen in 30 years of being a IC"!
I have watched her father try (and succeed mostly) to control everyone around him. When his son wouldn't be controlled, he forced him out of his life. He has tried many times to "make up" with his father and he refuses to allow him to be at all a part of his life. He even went to court when his son was trying to regain custody of his D's after a D from a drug using awful woman and testified AGAINST his own son. He could control his son's ex, so he turned on his own son. That's the kind of "man" he is! This is the person my W is taking her cues from. He is teaching her just how to control and at the same time telling her that she is right to act that way! When she is around him, she becomes a 10 year old little girl who doesn't understand why her daddy left her, why he doesn't love her any more and wants that love so very badly. Hence the tantrums, the acting out, the selfishness. MLC's always reach out to others, OM/W, new, different, friends, any family that backs their choices. In my W's case, it's her father and his wife. Both manipulative control freaks who live self centered lives.
None of this matters when it comes to what I need to do. I have to just understand that my loving, caring, W has become a sociopath just like dear old dad. Maybe she was all along but was fighting what she knew was "wrong", that could be why she became depressed in the first place, who knows. Or it could be that who she WAS is who she really is but the wanting her fathers love and acceptance combined with her MLC has caused her to become this way and if she is ever able to "reintegrate", she will see it for what it is. Either way, I have to understand that I can't trust her, that I can't expect her to do anything other than what SHE feels is in HER interest. It's why she doesn't even seem to care what is best for her D's if it puts her out in any way. If I don't step up and protect my D's, no one will. I have to be strong for myself and them. It will be a fight. A fight against the very person I have spent my life loving and caring for. The LAST person I ever saw as a threat.
None of this matters when it comes to what I need to do.
I know you're venting. I can feel the anger in your post. You are stuck on W taking the advice/being controlled by your FIL.
Look at your statement^^^^
Do what YOU need to do. None of us ever thought our S would be the threat or walk away from their families. What are you doing for yourself, Matt? Role model this for your D's. Do what you need to to help support them. Your W is not there for them, she's not there for you. It's not fair, I get it., but teach your girls how to get through this!
Atsbaby M:36 H:35 T: 19 M:12 S:11 D:9 BD: 5/4/14 Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her 8/19 admits OW 8/22/14 files D w/o telling me 9/20/14 Says he wants to reconcile
My D19 stopped by on her way to visit her sister and mother yesterday. She was just going to stop and pick up some things with her BF and their new puppy. Well, they ended up staying a long time and it was nice. Seems my D19 is feeling much more anger towards her mother than I had thought. We spoke about it only because my D19 brought it up. She is very concerned about her little sister and that's the reason she was going to her mom's. At one point I said I may have to sell the house (I live in the only home my D's had ever known until their mother left) because of the fact that my W moved so far and I really need to be closer to D14. That and because my W has made it so I MUST sell it when her sister turns 18 anyway so I may just do it now. My D19 was VERY freaked out about that! She said (in typical teenage way) "I'll kill myself if you do that"! I think she likes the feeling of security she has knowing that she can come and live here with me anytime and doesn't want to be around her mother and won't live with her. We had fun together as we always do and it was great. I needed that time with her.
While she was there my MIL called and told me she made some food for me and that I can pick it up on tomorrow. We had a nice talk and she also spoke with my D as well. It's nice that she is still friendly with me and still considers me part of the family (even while my W says I'm no longer part of her family while at the same time all her mothers relatives keep telling me I am). All in all a better day than I've had in quite a while. It also helps that my D19 and I spoke about my paying for some things like her mother was texting me about and she understands that I'm doing all I can and much more than her mother is. Funny that I knew she would feel this way but with my W getting on me about it, I started to let her chit get to me!
Have a good "Monday" (always nice to have Monday holidays!) everyone!
Matt, your vents are becoming more organized if no repetitive. They tend to do that over time, until eventually you get tired of saying what others won't want to hear. I'm not tired of it, Matt. I'm pointing out what will happen in your face to face relationships, including your MIL, etc.
For what it's worth, I think you are spot on with your assessments if not a little emotionally biased (who wouldn't be, right?)
If you stop expecting her to be different, I think your life will dramatically improve. If you start thinking that she will bad-mouth you, your daughter (the one that doesn't go along anyway), your MIL, your favorite childhood pet, etc as a way to control you (even if she means it at the time) you'll see things differently and it will dramatically improve your outlook and ability to deal with all that is going on. Don't get stuck just venting, is all I'm saying. You in no way should want to become a victim.
In fact, you could have left years ago. You lived with a depressed person for many years. A spouse that wants daddy's approval (he is a piece of work; he should meet my former MIL - they'd hit it off famously I'm sure) and love so much so that she's calling his new wife "mom". What a slap in the face to her own mom.
That's a sign of where she is at in her own life's journey. She's got choices to make and that's that.
What is more concerning, since you're here, is why you aren't jumping up and down for joy at the demise of your marriage? Why your W did you a favor and you're not happy about it. Or why you expect what isn't going to happen?
I think the answers to those questions will help you more than anything at this point. Keep venting by all means, but keep an eye on the next step too.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Thanks AJ, Funny thing about why I'm not 'happy" about W leaving..SHE actually said pretty much the same thing during one of her more "lucid" times post B-day. She said that I will probably find out that I'll be much happier without her. I guess it's just that I saw (see?) her depression as something that she has no control over and that, if she could just find a way to get her head right, whether it be the right AD's or IC or whatever, she could go back to being the loving, kind, caring person she was before the depression set in. Before she became depressed, while she was a stay at home mother, she was really a great partner and W. She really seemed to enjoy the time she spent with me and the kids. She didn't let her father interfere in our lives. I remember those years and thinking how lucky I was to be married to my best friend. It all started when her grand father died (the only steady male figure in her life after her father left when she was 10) and her father asked her to come and help with his memorial service. She was there for a month and was a changed person when I went up to join her. That was when her father told her that he wanted to make up for all the bad things he had done. Unfortunately, he also would only do so on HIS terms, those being that she stop "wasting" her life as a stay at home mother, he also wanted her to leave me and the kids for MONTHS to take her on a trip to Europe. It was also the summer before our youngest started 2nd grade and my W was feeling like she was isolated as a stay at home mom and she was home alone as both kids were now in school.
It was a "transition" period for her and we all know how MLC's don't handle transitions in life well at all. A little more than a month after returning from that trip and my W was diagnosed with her depression. She has never been able to recover from this. For 3 years she was unable to do much and when her IC told her she should go back to work that's what she did. Of course she threw herself into work completely and totally stopped being a wife and a mother and instead making her work the important thing in her life. This was also what her father wanted and he would tell her that it was fine for her to not vacation with her family, to let me take care of the kids and everything as what was important was her "career" and "happiness". The harder I tried to get her to be a part of the family again, the harder she pushed back.
When I would talk to her she would say that the depression was like a cloud that followed her around always ready to grab her and bring her down again. She had to keep running, keep throwing herself into her work to keep it at bay. When her father got cancer and she thought he was going to die (he had 1/2 his liver taken out) it made her feel like she was out of time to "make up" with her father and the MLC started in full.
For the longest time I felt that my W was just "sick". That her depression was no different than if she had cancer or something and I should be a good H and help her all I could. There is still part of me that feels that way still, like her MLC is more a product of her depression (and her fathers chit) than anything else. I will say as she has gone farther and farther and pushed things so far past the point of no return, I'm believing this less and less.
We were together for 26 years, all this started 7 years ago. So, the good years still out number the bad 2 to 1. But I now am getting to the point where I can see that the old her is so much less a part of who she is now. I'm also very tired after so many years of trying to be there for someone who just can't be happy in life. She won't get help for her depression other than AD's and has told me that all she needs is to get out of her M and she will be "happy" again (going so far as to say she will be able to stop taking AD's once she leaves...her Dr. said so!). That she wasn't depressed until after she got M so figures that the answer is to end her M, be on her own and doesn't care how she hurts me, her kids, her family, etc.
You make a really good point AJ. I do need to start seeing her leaving as a blessing as I will be able to stop being the care giver, stop having to put up with her chit. But at the same time she is the mother of my kids. One that will be with her 1/2 the time for the next 4 years. At least while she was still at home I could be there and know that my D's were taken care of, had someone there when they needed someone. But I also have to just let that go as well and know that my D will need to learn to take care of herself and make sure she knows I am always there for her, even if I'm 30 miles away.
