Married now living seperatly

[FunDad]

Actually, that whole post you focused everything on her and what SHE did wrong, etc. It just seemed like you blew off your role and responsibility in all this which you just listed.

-- Good point. I've been hard headed at times and have needed to be humbled in some areas throughout this process.

"1Acts of service"

Did you not help her? If she was feeling fatigued and overworked, that's the number one reason why she didnt' want to have sex. You can't expect her to be in the mood with that many kids.
-- I did help her, still help her, but the place is always a mess and over whelming with this many kids. My normal routine was get kids up for school and get them on the bus (so she gets to sleep in). Come home at lunch and talk and normally make her lunch (sometimes run errands). Pick up kids from activities after school. Help in the evening with supper and getting kids to bed. I recently hired some help in the house and that was amazing and will now be a part of my routine. I still drive over to the new place and help kids if shes needs it (all business however).

"2Making sure I have enough sleep, quiet time and rest"

This relates to the first part. Did you not help her? She's a SAHM. It's no wonder she felt overwhelmed.

-- She does get plenty of rest, but her body was sick a lot of the time. Her recent surgery cleared alot of the disease that was dragging her down. She's recovering well.

"3treating the children and I with respect and kind tones- not as obligations"

This is very telling. Is this how you made it feel like? Not a very FunDad if you did.

-- Sometimes I did make kids feel this way, yes, it was one of the issues that I had to deal with. I'm a pretty fun dad however. We do the pool almost everyday, go camping, play music, watch movies, and other activities they like.

"4acting as if people are more important than things or money"

Could you elaborate?

-- I get frustrated when I know we can fix it instead of buy new. Her and I feel differently about this and she wants me to see it her way and buy new. There were several instances where I know we can make simple fixes so we don't have to waste money on more stuff.

"5not making crude sexual comments"

Did you do this? If so, to who and about who?

-- Any hint of a sexual joke or humor directed at her is not appreciated. I stopped this a long time ago.

"6behaving in ways that are appropriate responses to other people's emotions"

-- I don't let our children's meltdowns control dictate my behavior. At times it seems I don't care and sometimes I really don't appreciate their feelings because they are being selfish. Kids are this way. Example would be kids not being able to manage video game time together which demands parent intervention. If I have not been home all day and when I walk in the door child X claims child Y has had three hours and child Y insists it's their turn, sometimes it's easier just to eliminate video games for all rather than to go in circles with kids about a privilege that has to be micromanaged by an adult who does not have time for that. On weekends when I'm home all day I have them set a timer when their chores are done as the standing system. This works great.

On the flip side I have been guilty of misinterpreting meltdowns for selfish behavior when it was absolutely not (tuned out to what was said).


"7not making crude sexual gropes"

Did you grope her?

She hates it when we snuggle in bed and I touch any area of her that is close to a personal zone. This was happening about 1 month when it was an issue. I would forget this every so often and it would make her feel unsafe around me. There was not overt groping in public or in front of children.

"8recognizing that I am your biggest ally instead of your worst nightmare or enemy."

Is this how you treated her? Especially if she turned you down for sex?

-- Yes, I would be resentful toward her for a while (usually a couple of hours), especially if she was turning me down for sex after days/weeks of none. At one point, she had agreed that we would have sex on a certain day of the week. The day would come and go with no sex. Sometimes it was discussed, but most days I knew better than to try to bring it up. Btw -I would be sure to be romantic for her during the week and sensitive especially around this day. That was sometimes seen as self-serving however and I was guilty of meeting her needs only so I could get mine met. I would actually keep daily logs on my phone of the acts of service and our conversations so I would know that I was making an effort to support her in our relationship. The efforts were still rejected (this is a maddening exercise btw and only serves to show you how much you are trying at things that simply wont work).

"9having positive conversation and emotional connection without expecting it to lead to sex most of the time"

Women (especially your W with the kids) need to FEEL loved and that they matter after giving so much to the kids. Did you ever consider that? You can't always "express" your love in the bedroom. That would be selfish.

-- Yes, I understand. One of my favorite quotes is "Before you touch her body, you must touch her heart". I realized after a while if she does not feel "in love" you however, it won't matter.

"10 realize that I need emotional lubonding before sexual encounters"

That's very straightforward. Did you not understand this?

- Yes, I completely understand this. How do men achieve emotional bonding however? Do you see the catch-22 here? Constant rejection does not serve very well to support emotional bonding.

"11 be responsible, trustworthy and safe"

This relates to the previous two points.

"12 don't provoke kids or I to anger, fear, or shame"

-- (fear) I'm spontaneous sometimes with plans. The became an increasing problem as our family grew. She hates uncertainty and going with the flow. So, I changed this. Every trip now has an itinerary posted on Google docs or another calendar service we shared. This was a big help, but it's still hard if people wont read the schedule and then complain they don't know (even if you read it to them in a group meeting).

-- (anger) I don't listen and hear things I should sometimes. I can just tune things out when I'm concentrating on something else. I can do this easily (a gift and a curse). It's getting better. I don't blame family members for getting upset at me for this.

-- (shame) Some of my kids have done some bad things. I accidentally brought one issue up in front of another kid in a joking manner that I should absolutely not have. I apologized for this and it wont happen again.

Please elaborate.

"13 don't say someone or their feelings are crazy (their behavior may seem crAzy, reactions may seem extreme but DO NOT hint that others are stupid, crazy or overreacting."

What did you do?
-- An example from about "fear" from above. Before we went on a trip, I would tell them exactly when and how we were getting somewhere with each transition mapped out. We took a plane trip to a large city recently, and I told everyone we will take a taxi from airport to hotel when we landed. Some of them had not traveled on a plane before and that feeling of uncertainty about exactly what's going to happen next hit them as I was finding us a cab. Not a big deal to experienced travelers, but to some of our kids, it was a big deal because of the new experience. I also got us on a wrong shuttle on that trip and it created anxiety. It was a 10 minute mistake, but created anxiety none the less for some family members. I'll admit most of my detail planning was to keep from being criticized by my wife. I was very tired of hearing complaints about not knowing what was happening when. It was a no-win situation because something always went a bit unexpected and opened us up to problems we were not equipped to handle together (used to attacking the person instead of the problem and putting me in defensive mode).

"14 take full responsibility for hurt you cause. Honestly I'm not sure what would help on this because I'm sorry now seems very shallow"

So you haven't made amends yet?

--Actually, on a lot of these issues we had; however, when the relationship gets rocky, it seems past hurts are resurrected and become current feelings again. I know about Dr. Chapman's new "The 5 languages of an apology" and we were both working on that to some degree. If the love tank is already below empty however, there is not grace left for mistakes and apologies seem empty.

Like I said before, even she had agreed that I had made progress on most of the items on the list, but it was too little, too late apparently in her mind. I read today in DR that divorce is not the answer to relationship problems, and I still think that's very true, even in our situation. I'm still working on me with a counselor, and I hope at some time she will return to work on "us".