Not sure what to do

[MrBond]

"I don't pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead my wife. I don't call her. I don't talk about the marriage. I am getting a life, etc.

I am seeing a therapist to learn how to communicate."

And how actually are you "showing" your new communication skills? Talking to your W isn't pursuing. Especially in your case.

"I am clearly following the rules. How am I blaming my wife!!!"

You have to understand that the "rules" aren't set in stone and have to be adjusted for each person's situation. You said you and your W don't want a D whereas the rules were made primarily for those whose spouses want a D.

Your biggest issue is and has always been how the two of you communicate. Go back to your very first post. Since then, all you've been doing is blaming your W. You accuse her of being abusive, yelling, etc. Yet she isn't that way with anyone else. So it's obvious it's a problem just between the two of you.

The problem is that your situation is SO fixable! Have you read many of the other stories on here? We've had WAS's who have accused the LBS of physical abuse, had the LBS arrested, the children taken away, etc. They have it so much more worse than you do. You've got an easy problem to solve.

[Bob1967]

I tried to open the lines of communication again. My wife is going on another business trip. I was scheduled to take care of the dog so I sent her the following text:

Me: (7:48 am) I have on my calendar to look after the dog beginning tomorrow. If this has changed let me know.

Wife: (8:04 am) No thank you.

I didn't respond back. She obviously wants to punish me. Okay. I'm not going to lash out.

I finished the separation agreement and express mailed it to her. It lists all our assets (about a million).

I said I would give everything to her for $35,000. So she makes out very well financially at the end of all this.

I detailed all the paperwork she had to complete and explained I would file all the necessary papers with the court. She didn’t have to do anything. And if she had any questions I would help. (My wife has a severe learning disability. Filling out forms gives her extreme anxiety.)

I said all I want is the dog.

I reminded her that she originally didn’t want the dog—I did. It would mean a lot to me if she would let me have him. I thought the apartment was big enough for him. (I also pointed out how she had lived in her car and an apartment with her last dog before she met me. I said I wouldn’t make an issue out of it but I wanted her to consider this.)

As always I said I would do anything around the house if she needed. She just had to ask.

How is that for changing the way I communicate?

[unbidden]

IS there any warmth or understanding of her side in any of this? I don't feel it or see it but don't know your sitch that well. I think that opening the lines of communication is saying that you would really like to talk openly, not messaging her that you've calendered taking care of the dog.

[Bob1967]

You shouldn't post when you've been drinking but what the heck. Right!

What is warmth and understanding? She used to have warmth and understanding but then she just got angry. Nothing I did was right. There went the warmth and understanding.

My wife used to be the warm one in the relationship because I didn't understand warmth. My family wasn't warm. They were nice. They were kind. But they weren't warm. They didn't know how to do it. But my wife...there was another story. She understood warmth. She made everyone feel loved. It was a gift. That's why everyone loved her.

Boy I sure don't miss her long rambling emails. She could go on and about what an ass I was for pages.

Here is an example of ONE email. Swear to God--ONE email:

Dear Bob, again, this is what you wrote:

"I want you to know I have really tried. I came back last year not with the hope of bringing calmness to you liked as you say in the email but rather to fix the marriage I tried to be more communicative I tried to better understand your concerns. I did become a better listener and I did get better at communication. I still struggle with conflict and properly standing up for you. I do have emotion. I think the physical ailments I have had over the last year can be directly connected to the emotion as I was trying but failing. And when I say failing it was my fault not yours."

Bob--This what I hear:

To my constantly complaining wife: Why must you make me say things that hurt you?

I did not move back home last year with the hope of repairing a marriage that I had destroyed.

Because I have never seen myself as the person who destroyed our marriage. The destruction was your fault. And you must understand, my goal was not to repair the marriage last year. I did not want to move home. I moved home because you manipulated the situation. You let me to believe that you would be perfect. This was untrue. And this untruth made me very sad. It caused me to move out a couple more times. And each time I came home it was under the false promises that you would be perfect. When you failed in this objective I had no option but to be saddened.

I waited for you to take full responsibility for all the problems in our marriage. I listened with open ears for apologizes that never came. I waited for you to stop all conflict in our marriage but it never happened. Instead you continued to get angry and insisted that I take responsibility for things that I did not like. I tried to explain to you that I would only take responsibility for issues that I agreed on. I was not going to take responsibility for issues that I was not comfortable for.

I believe that I am allowed to pick and choose what issues I can be responsible for in my marriage. I believe that I am allowed to pick the problems that I get to blame you for in our marriage.

Things would have been happy in our marriage if you would have gone along with this set up but it wasn't good enough for you. You were never happy. You wanted to pick your own issues to whine about.

And you failed to see that your consistent nagging is what has brought us to this point. If you would not have forced me to live under unrealistic expectations then I would not have been so conflicted. It was horrible. You forced me into situations that made me sick. If it had not been for you I would not have been forced to hide my behavior and engaged in bad decision making.

It is your fault that I am sick. Do you know how hard it is to live a double life? No you do not. But I had to do this because you forced me. And now that I am free of all that you still badger me. You still nag me.

When will you stop and allow me peace?

All you do is discuss your trauma. Why do you think I care about any trauma I have put your through? It is not as if I loved you when we got married. It is not as if I love you now.

You strongly need a reality check my dear, dear wife.

Although you have appeared to have several alarming medical conditions since June 2 (a deadly infection, C-diff, heart problem, lung infection, teeth problems, etc..) they are not as serious as my medical issues. Do you know why? Because my medical issues are mine. And I blame my medical issues on you. I blame your medical issues on you.

I will not take responsibility for your declining health. No more than I would ever take responsibility for the destruction of our marriage. Neither of these was ever my fault.

I do not cause conflict. I avoid conflict. Any deceptive behavior that I may have engaged in during our marriage never caused conflict. If you would have ignored my behavior (as any good wife would have) everything would have been fine.

Therefore the conflict was your fault.

Again I sign this document with no emotion.

Bob

P.S.--Please stop making me feel responsible for your failures. As we know you have been married twice before. This is my first marriage. I think we know who is probably the failure you.

Damnit! Why couldn't she just learn to edit. We could have gone a long ways if she could have just learn to stop expressing herself so damn freely all the time. And why couldn't she have been a little softer. Would it have killed her to be a little softer?

[Nettles]

You've got an easy problem to solve.

I'm sure that seems like a harsh line, Bob, but is meant that there is hope.

Your W wrote "I wanted my marriage. You wanted your hurt. Your hurt won." That is an extremely powerful thing Bob. IMO, that quote and a lot of what you wrote on here makes me think that it is hard for you to forgive.

Think about forgiveness for a second Bob. What does it mean to you? You have to forgive your W for the past and never bring it up again. Ever. The next time she yells, it has nothing to do with the past X number of times she has yelled. You've been given advice on how to handle her yelling going forward. But to truly forgive, you have to move past the past. When you do this, you can start communicating with your W.

Part of what saved my M was my W truly believed that you can hate the action but love the person. A C who we saw together told us that we have to agree that all people should be loved (Have you heard that on Sunday? Aren't you a Catholic?). We can hate the action but love the person. Love the person by forgiving the action and use tools to handle the next time and prevent the action.

I know it can work because my W did this. And it changed me. Your actions can change your W. Reread what your W wrote. You are choosing pain by not forgiving.

Forgiveness won't fix everything. But it is the start for using improved communication skills that you can work on to rebuild things. Things can be different the next time W starts to yell and you have the power to change it. You can choose to. What do you choose Bob?

[Jacket]

Bob,

I don't understand why you are filing a separation agreement if you don't want to actually separate from/divorce your wife. Do you think your actions are bringing you closer to or farther away from your wife?

Jacket

[Nettles]

Bob--This what I hear:

It all reads like someone who knows there is no forgiveness.

I do not cause conflict. I avoid conflict. Any deceptive behavior that I may have engaged in during our marriage never caused conflict. If you would have ignored my behavior (as any good wife would have) everything would have been fine.

And what is this? It is hard to give forgiveness when one won't receive forgiveness.

[Jacket]

Bob,

Based on what your wife said in her email, she seems to feel that you always make yourself out to be the victim. My H always felt like the victim, too, and that he always had to make sacrifices. He felt very much like the martyr in nearly all situations, not just with me, but with friends and family, too. Have you thought at all about what keeps you in this victim mode?

Also, if you can look past the sarcastic tone and get over your pride when reading her email, you can see that your W is actually telling you exactly what she is upset about in painstaking detail. Read it carefully and you can see all of the things you need to work on. I know you may disagree with her on some of the points, but rather than avoiding that topic, could you directly address it (180) and say something along the lines of, "I really DO take responsibility for the destruction of our marriage. What can I do/say to convince you of this?" The key though is that you have to really believe what you are saying, and say it in an open and vulnerable way, without saying it in an accusing way. I learned to do this with my H, and I found that it was all in my body language and tone that changed the meaning from being attacking to totally earnest. And the other thing that is essential is that you have to TRULY WANT TO KNOW. And when she answers, you have to stay in that intent to learn rather than moving into a protective and closed state.

The thing that jumps out especially to me in your W's email is this: "It is not as if I loved you when we got married. It is not as if I love you now." If this is really what she thinks, will any of your current actions bring you closer to her? Filing separation papers certainly isn't going to convince her you love her, is it? Also, it's nice that you're offering to do things around the house and to watch the dog, but these things don't demonstrate love. These are things you'd do for a friend.

I think you need to really forgive her for the past hurts, as people have been saying, and I mean really TRULY forgive her, and you will only be able to do this if you really truly accept what your role was in things. Once you do, then your actions might align with those feelings and be more loving again. I cringe when I hear of some of the things you are doing toward her because it does seem like you're inadvertently continuing to punish her with your disengagement.

I'm not trying to be harsh. I want things to work out for you and your W. Best of luck to you.

Jacket

[MrBond]

"How is that for changing the way I communicate?"

I'm not sure if that was supposed to be a sarcastic statement or not. You didn't change ANYTHING in how you communicated with her. You set yourself up.

"As we know you have been married twice before."

Funny how you never mentioned this.

"Damnit! Why couldn't she just learn to edit. We could have gone a long ways if she could have just learn to stop expressing herself so damn freely all the time. And why couldn't she have been a little softer. Would it have killed her to be a little softer?"

Would it have "killed" you to be a little more compassionate? You want her to shut up and be the happy June Cleaver of the home and just do what you want. So is that what happened to your last marriages?

The thing about drunken rants is that they bring your guard down and the truth comes out. You really do have a victim mentality. It's very obvious. And when she tries to communicate with you, you think she's a B*TCH. That WHOLE letter that you are complaining about is her trying to communicate with you in different ways. You just don't want to hear it.

I guess for you it's easier to make her XW number 3 and look for number 4. That is your pattern isn't it? Rather than looking inwards and doing the work, you look for someone else who you're "compatible" with or is softer. The problem is that over time you'll notice that they also have a mind of their own like every other woman and the same problems come up. Have you EVER thought that the problem lies in you? Maybe you should learn to start taking responsibility and be a man for a change rather than blaming it on your W.

Sounds harsh, but you pretty much called yourself out on that one in your posts.

[sandi2]

Bob, would you describe yourself as the walk-away spouse? Not just based on the fact you left the home, but in how you feel and and tell your story. I know you say you want the M to be saved, and I agree both of you have issues that have caused the breakdown of the MR. Now that you have shared more about the stitch, I see some characteristics similar to those of a WAS. Just one example is the feeling you cannot return to the M until she makes changes.....and having huge doubts about it.

I was the walk away spouse in my M. I never actually left the house physically......but I left the M a long time before I showed up on the doorsteps of the DB board. In spite of my behavior, attitude, and many negative feelings....my deep belief system, core values, or whatever you want to call it....was urging me to reach out to somebody who would really listen and maybe know how to give me some guidance. The first place I searched out was advertised as a Christian forum, and that was what I wanted. Call it bad timing or something else, all I know was the first night I was desperately trying to get them to talk to me, they were cutting up and not taking me seriously. So I left that place and somehow found my way here. The timing was right. The right people reached me and said the right information I needed to hear. Maybe I didn't want to hear some of it.....but I needed it.

I criticized and blamed my H. Post after post I was trying to describe his failures to the people here. Especially if I started feeling too much heat. I will never forget being told what you've been told........"you are the one here". That meant I would be the one getting the information. It meant that I would be the one who had to make changes. I don't think I was very thrilled to hear that b/c I kept reminding the board how it was my H who needed to change his ways.

It was not easy for me. I don't think it's easy for either the LBS or the WAS. It seems, based on the majority population here being LBS's, that they are usually the ones here who want to bust the D. They are usually the ones asking for advice in how to save the M, and seem desparate to do so. Sometimes I felt as I was the only WAS on the board! (and there were very few at that time) I only mention it b/c it is easy to believe none of the advice fits you b/c you are on the other side of the fence, so to speak.

To me, the hardest part for the WAS taking the advice to heart, is due to the condition of his/her heart by that time. I think the no. 1 attitude in a WAS is "fed up"! It took some of a long time to reach that point, and just the thought of enduring longer under in that environment is almost unbearable. Whereas, the LBS is faster to plead no to file for a D.

Yes, you are the one who showed up. Not your W. So take another deep breath. We want to help, if we can.

Btw, I want to comment about the "rules" later. They are not really die hard rules. They are tips to help LBS newcomers who have had the bomb dropped and have been told the M is over and their S wants a D. B/c the LBS feels so lost and doesn't know which step to take next, that list came together, people began referring to it as the rules. Everyone has to tweak those that may not fit your situation.