Not sure what to do

[MrBond]

Since she doesn't react like that to anyone else, it's obvious it's how the two of you communicate. Can't you see that?

"I see it from her perspective. She is upset because I can't get over my hurt. It frustrates her. She believes my hurt feelings have destroyed our marriage."

And to a degree it has.

"I don't understand why we can't work together on a solution."

Because you keep seeing it as HER problem and that SHE needs to change. You can be the first one to change and things will get better. It's so obvious, but you don't seem to want to let go of the blame.

[sandi2]

Thanks Bob, I believe I may be seeing things a little better. I post to a lot of people, so I hope you won't mind if I ask something that you have already stated.

I think you said things were fine until a couple of years ago, and that is when she started with the name calling and yelling. Does that timing fall in line with when she started being bullied by the coworker?

In some ways I can identify with her, if this is the case. I worked in a very close environment with a female coworker who bullied me for many years. The stress was unbelievable. I would go home and unleash my frustrations (partly) and I know my H must have been sick of hearing about my job situation. I remember some some times I reacted in anger toward him, when in reality it wasn't him that was causing it.

I could be way off base here, but if the pressure from this bully is her true source of problems, then she is taking all that pent up frustration out on you. She must feel she either can't afford to put the bully in her place (for one or more reasons) or doesn't know what to do about it. Otherwise, why would she continue to stay in the situation? I know why I felt I had to stay in my situation, but if I had it to over.....I would handle things differently.

She feels under attack all day, then she comes home and attacks the one closest to her. And what did you do? When there is a communication problem then all kind of other problems develop.

Your W has been willing to see several counselors. She has begged for you to go home and commit to working together on the M. She even tried to get you to have sex with her. (Did you see making love would be rewarding her bad behavior too?) Can you see how this makes you look like the stubborn one, while she appears to be the willing one? You each have hurt the other one very deeply. I think both of you have contributed to the breakdown here.

It breaks your heart to D her? Then don't do it. Find a way to work this out together. Didn't she say something about learning her lesson......or similar words? Right now, it seems you are the one clinging to anger and stubbornness that is keeping this D from being busted!

You won't even consider the retreat 25yrs told you about b/c you think it would be rewarding her bad behavior. How many have you attended over the past two years? Have you ever been to this particular one, or received information on it? I'm sure 25yrs would be happy to tell you more about it.

I agree your W needs to make some changes, but so do you. Blaming each other is not going to cut it. Would you be willing to talk to a DB Coach or the two of you have a session with Michele?

[Bob1967]

I think my wife began having anger issues about 2010 a year after her mother died.

She started being bullied at work in 2012. The work bully used to be one of her best friends.

I did look at Retrouvaille. I'm not opposed to it or anything else that save my marriage.

But I'm still in a state of limbo with my wife. I can't do anything until she contacts me.

[Ss06]

You're not entirely in limbo. You can work on you. Like Sandi said, what are some things YOU can do to soften a little? To have a little empathy? It's HARD, I know. We all know. No one got anywhere by being stubborn and hard. If you're waiting for her to contact you there's so many things you can do and work on in the mean time. Take it from "waiting" to "working" and your whole mind shifts.

Just a thought.

[Bob1967]

I think I have been working on me.

I do volunteer work every Saturday at my church. I see a therapist once a week. I am at the office all the time because of a new position I have at work. I go to the gym. And I am drafting the legal separation agreement.

I never contact my wife.

When she is ready to come back to marriage I will be here. But until then I have an entire life which doesn't involve her anymore.

[MrBond]

"When she is ready to come back to marriage I will be here."

Again. Not helping.

All your GAL counts for nothing if you don't learn how to COMMUNICATE with her. You keep blaming her still. Swallow your pride for a second and start learning. If you don't want to do that, go ahead and file for D. What is the issue here?

[Bob1967]

Hold on.

I don't pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead my wife. I don't call her. I don't talk about the marriage. I am getting a life, etc.

I am seeing a therapist to learn how to communicate.

I am clearly following the rules. How am I blaming my wife!!!

When my wife contacts me I will talk to her.

[Jacket]

All those things you described are GAL, and those are great! However, I was under the impression that the LBS is not supposed to pursue, reason, chase, beg, or plead because those are things that most LBS do, and usually they don't work. But based on what you've said about how you tend to withdraw, NOT doing those things seems to be "more of the same" behavior for you. It is clear that you your wife DOES want to talk about the relationship, and avoiding it seems to make your wife even more angry. It seems like a 180 for you would be to actually talk about it, instead of avoiding it, and for you to attempt to engage in a constructive discussion about it. Your wife seems to want to come back to the marriage, but she seems to want to discuss things about it before she's willing to come back. You refusing to talk about it seems to be what's keeping things from moving forward.

I think the reason people keep saying that you seem to be blaming her is because you have made comments that you think she has anger issues, is emotionally unstable, and that she emotionally abuses you. I get the impression you want her to work on those things, which might help, sure, but you have zero control over that. Instead, what you can control is looking at yourself, and seeing what it is exactly that YOU are doing or saying that is causing her to react this way. Since she does not react to anyone else this way, it is clear that it is something about your dynamic that is setting her off. If you read my story, you can see that it would be really easy for me to simply blame my H for wanting this "fantasy" kind of romance that it would not be possible for anyone to possibly live up to. In fact, that is what all of my family and friends focus on, and I've been encouraged over and over to kick my H to the curb. Instead, I have chosen to examine my own role in the demise of our M. Does my H want something unattainable? I think so. However, from my own exploration, I see that I withdrew from our relationship because I didn't feel loved and because I got negative reactions from him when I did something that I felt was loving. In looking deep into myself, I see that I could have reacted differently (e.g., told him how what he was doing made me feel, asking him directly what he thought of XYZ) rather than withdrawing, even though many people have assured me that I was justified in reacting the way I did. The only person I have any control over is myself. Even if my H and I do not reconcile, I will have learned valuable information about myself that I will take with me into my next relationship.

I actually identify a little with your W. While I am not the kind of person who usually yells, I would get incredibly frustrated with my H when he didn't react to things I would tell him. I would tell him about things that made me happy, excited, sad, frustrated, upset, etc. When my feelings weren't validated and when he would actually withdraw (he was brought up to completely stifle his emotions and actually felt like he was in danger if my feelings seemed too "out-of-control"), I often felt rejected if I was trying to share a happy moment or even more frustrated/upset/sad than I already was. I felt I needed to re-explain what I was feeling and more insistently; that he didn't understand what I was saying and that I needed to clarify. The more he withdrew, the stronger I felt I needed to make known what it was I was feeling and oftentimes, if I was already describing something that was upsetting or frustrating to me, my H's withdrawal made it 10x worse. I would actually forget whatever it was I was frustrated or upset about and instead focus on the fact that he couldn't emotionally support me.

Through MC my H and I both learned that my display of emotions was shutting him down, and he learned to listen to what his body was telling him and to teach himself that he wasn't being attacked when I was simply trying to get some empathy from him. He often took things I told him about incredibly personally, even if they had nothing to do with him. For example, if I was talking about something that happened at work and just needed to vent, he would often take it as a personal attack and would feel affected physically. Before we separated, we had gotten to the point where I could learn to preface what I said with, "I just need you to listen and validate me" and he learned to say, "I'm shutting down" when he could feel like he wanted to withdraw. We worked a lot on communicating better with one another and it allowed us to have much better conversations.

If you feel like you still would not be able to have a constructive conversation with your W, perhaps you could write her a letter to open up the discussion. But I would make sure you focus entirely on what you are doing to change things, and not give the impression at ALL that you are blaming her for what she has done or said.

I'm no vet. In fact, I'm really new to the boards, so I'm not pretending to be an expert at all. However, I have read your thread and I feel for you and for your wife. If I'm way off-base here with my suggestions, feel free to chime in, vets and others!

[Bob1967]

Jacket-I read your posts. I'm sorry this is happening to you.

I noticed you left. Why did you move out?

I moved out because my wife told me to leave. I know it's my house but it didn't occur to me that I could stay.

Is that why you left?

[Jacket]

I moved out because we had agreed, back when he called it for good in April, that I would move out at the end of last school year. I kept to my word, though I did ask him several times (at the urging of my DB coach) if he was really sure this was what he wanted. Every time, he said yes, and that he intended to go through with the divorce. He complained after April that I wasn't honoring him and his feelings (i.e., that I was still acting as if our M was salvageable), so I felt that moving out would show him that I really was hearing him and respecting his wishes. I moved out (instead of him moving out) also because I had someone I could move in with and I worried that I wouldn't be able to handle the mortgage if/when we divorced.