DBing after WAW then reactive EA by me...NO QUIT!

[Joe1981]

I always feel better on days I work out in the AM, glad I got there this morning. I do hate getting up at 4:40 though.

W took it well when I told her that I was told by the school district that we'd have to wait until right at the start of school to know if we get to transfer our son.

Feeling stronger today. Excited by the changes I'm making in myself. Trying to get back to eating less. The weight loss has stalled. If I weren't working out a lot, I'd be gaining. I've got goals to reach and overeating isn't going to get me there.

[25yearsmlc]

I always feel better on days I work out in the AM, glad I got there this morning. I do hate getting up at 4:40 though.


Kudos to you for getting up that early!! Seriously, Good job!


W took it well when I told her that I was told by the school district that we'd have to wait until right at the start of school to know if we get to transfer our son.

Wow, so SOME of the prior stress was for naught. Think about that next time...??


Feeling stronger today. Excited by the changes I'm making in myself.

excellent!


Trying to get back to eating less. The weight loss has stalled. If I weren't working out a lot, I'd be gaining. I've got goals to reach and overeating isn't going to get me there.

Amen (and I need to follow your example myself.)

Keep up the good work. And I DO think venting here can be helpful. A lot of folks do it and THEN they stay stuck in their victimhood. For them, venting is bad news.

But if it makes you feel better afterwards, then it IS helping.

Do what you need.

I was merely pointing out that if my h and I can be apart for 18 months, and many couples we know have been apart for 7 of the past 9 years, and most have stayed well married,

you can handle a summer of no affection MORE than you realize.

You are stronger than you realize. We tend to compare our m's here, with what we envision as perfect ones. Don't.

Compare to the ones who are NOT doing as well and pat yourself on the back now and then.

[Joe1981]

Thanks 25!
I'm really doing my best at the PMA thing. I get reminders from my W many times per day how it will not be good if the school thing doesn't pan out. So the stress there is real and constant, but I think I have to remain at least somewhat patient, even if she won't.

I'm looking forward to IC tonight as maybe she can give me some advice on how to handle it when my W says I ruined everything. I acknowledge that I made everything a lot worse when I got involved in an EA after she dropped the bomb. I thought things were 100% done and that all that was left was to move on. Too bad I didn't find this site first.

Oh well, you live and you learn. And I'm not sure her eyes would have opened w/out that situation. I actually think the thing she is most mad about, that I had the OW and her kids around our kids is what made her realize that divorce isn't so great. Mind reading I know, but it does let me be at peace some with what happened.

Like I said, I hope my IC can help me figure out how to diffuse that a little.

Yeah, my attitude is actually pretty good right now. Work is about to start soon, so that should help.

I've dedicated myself to getting up early every day to get a workout in. There are classes Monday-Thursday from 5:15-6:15 that I can go to and get back in time to get ready for work and on Friday I can "sleep in" and go for a run at more like 5:30 to 6.

I'm set to join an adult soccer league that starts in September, and I think I'm going to sign up for a 5K later in the fall.

I know the only thing of those that REALLY is GAL is the soccer league because I can make friends there while the other two are just exercise.

[LisaB]

Just wanted to say you are doing great Joe! Keep it up!
Hugs, Lisa

[Joe1981]

Thanks Lisa!

IC tonight was good. She was pretty on board with all of the DB strategies I'm working on. Reinforced the importance of the GAL activities in that it gives me some actual adult time and time away from M issues.

Cautioned me against pushing things fast early on in the piecing process (if we get there). Which is something I knew, but good to have reinforced. She helped me with how to deal with the blame my W wants to constantly heap on me.

Also talked about getting my masters and my C liked my thoughts on getting it in something outside of education so I can have career options down the road if needed. It also represents a 180 for me since it'd be the riskier choice than the relatively easy path of getting an education related Masters.

Set my next appointment for right after school starts so I can process however that situation works out. I'm sure I'll need it that day. Feeling optimistic about myself and very cautiously hopeful for my situation.

Hope everyone else is doing well tonight.

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks 25!
I'm really doing my best at the PMA thing. I get reminders from my W many times per day how it will not be good if the school thing doesn't pan out. So the stress there is real and constant, but I think I have to remain at least somewhat patient, even if she won't.


Joe, here's a brutal newsflash. You have to stay VERY PATIENT, (not "Somewhat") regardless of what SHE does. YOU are the one here trying to save the m, Not her.


I'm looking forward to IC tonight as maybe she can give me some advice on how to handle it when my W says I ruined everything.


"ruined everything"...like what? The perfect marriage?

Look Joe...you have 2 options.

1) Ask yourself if the "data" is valid. IF IT IS VALID even only in part, start undoing damage and begin repairing and or turning over a new leaf.

IOW, address the issue and then let go of it.
**

2) BUT If the data is NOT valid, then it is NOT real.

Do you pay attention to what an insane homeless man yells at you near the subway? Wouldn't you ignore him...b/c you KNOW his "data isn't real"?? If this data is not real, it's NOT A REAL PROBLEM.

I mean, "What happens if your wife"----- believes the sun is purple and revolves around the earth? My guess is, nothing....right? Maybe you give her a book on astronomy but you are not "Invested" IN her opinion about it, right?

What if she decides the "trinity" taught by some Christian denominations is NOT what she believes, but rather, she believes more of a "unified" deity theory. What then????

Do you spend A LOT of time explaining to her that the sun is mostly yellow, or that the various denominations have gone over the whole trilogy/trinity and unified deity theory - and fought wars over it ---but NOW for more part are at peace w/each other??

My guess is you don't spend much energy on issues that are not real OR have no relevance to your life. And what your wife believes about you IF IT IS NOT TRUE, cannot affect what YOU believe about you.

Make sense?

I acknowledge that I made everything a lot worse when I got involved in an EA after she dropped the bomb.

Yes, obviously. So, lesson learned.

I thought things were 100% done and that all that was left was to move on. Too bad I didn't find this site first.

Joe, let's all agree for a moment that you DID believe it was "all over".

So, did you actually believe that IMMEDIATELY PURSUING OW was...healthy of you? Or fair to any OW? Do you now see it in the same light?

Even if it were ALL a done deal with your wife, didn't the term REBOUND come into your mind a few times a day?

I don't want to belabor it but DO think it has to be made at least once and it has nothing to do with your wife...

my point --IS THAT YOU seem to think even NOW, in retrospect - that you had some sort of explanation or "good reason" to pursue OW, based on your hurt feelings & perception that your m was over (what, a week earlier??)

So to me, its as if you are saying

1) "I thought I had NO woman anymore and since

2) I HAVE to have A woman (ANY woman, really,) Right away, at all times,

3) Naturally I pursued the first one to come into my head..."& IT'S ALL B/C I THOUGHT MY M WAS OVER."

To which I'd say, "So what? You're not in a position to Give much to a woman, let alone one with kids, and speaking of kids, what about YOURS?

Aren't THEY in pain? Wanna meet their needs first?"

And that^^^ Joe, is what I'd have thought if your marriage HAD been over for at least a few MONTHS....

I now believe that BEING ALONE & BEING OKAY w/it, are the hallmarks of a mature person.

Okay, Do you get what I'm saying? I want to move on & not belabor this if you get it.

Oh well, you live and you learn. And I'm not sure her eyes would have opened w/out that situation. I actually think the thing she is most mad about, that I had the OW and her kids around our kids is what made her realize that divorce isn't so great. Mind reading I know, but it does let me be at peace some with what happened.


MIndreading a lot...to be clear --- you mean the possibility that she felt (what you hope is) jealousy, makes your ego feel better?

What if she felt repulsed by your neediness for a woman on your arm 24/7?

What if she felt betrayed by your disloyalty, and sickened by your horrid judgement in selecting OW who is so enmeshed in your family's activities that it affects present day choices? (What was the plan IF the A had become physical? Never mind...never mind let's not even go there....)

Hey, if you are going to mind read, I hope these^^ examples show you how
UN HEALTHY it can get - so don't go there. Stick with facts as you know them and clarify what you don't know, by ASKING for clarification, when needed & appropriate.

Like I said, I hope my IC can help me figure out how to diffuse that a little.


Or a lot. Yes, agreed, and we'll all cross our fingers for you! And down the road, we can address the temper you described her as having...

Yeah, my attitude is actually pretty good right now. Work is about to start soon, so that should help.

Excellent -- PMA is for you AND your family and helps the M too. Win win.


I've dedicated myself to getting up early every day to get a workout in. There are classes Monday-Thursday from 5:15-6:15 that I can go to and get back in time to get ready for work and on Friday I can "sleep in" and go for a run at more like 5:30 to 6.

I'm set to join an adult soccer league that starts in September, and I think I'm going to sign up for a 5K later in the fall.

Way to get fit! Bet it shows.

I know the only thing of those that REALLY is GAL is the soccer league because I can make friends there while the other two are just exercise.

What are 2 of your 180s? And what GAL plan can you do? So much GAL, so little time!

I can see you enjoy physical movment/sports. Anything in the languages (meet up groups can meet for lunch and just SPEAK in the other language for 2 hours...

or music---music appreciation OR an instrument?

And what about any crafts (not just pottery, but woodwork or metal work or carpentry or blacksmithing or animal husbandry>>>

Any new subject matter that interests you at all? A class?
A current events group? Book Club? Men's Support Group? Divorce support groups? Learning CPR, or about another culture?

You are in a big city or near one. LOTS of things to do.

Did I post to you my GAL list? It's not exhaustive. I lived in a place that was DARK in the winter, and the winters were long. I knew I really had to GAL or I'd be SAD.

I GAL like a maniac. And IT WORKED WONDERS! That's why I harp on it.
You really can do the same. Almost none of my GAL cost much...

Good luck!

[Joe1981]

25, you make great points.

The patience I was referring to was regarding the school thing. I know for sure that the M thing is going to take a TON of patience.

Regarding the "ruined everything" comments, your thoughts are similar to my C's. She said, validate the things that were my doing, but don't agree with, or try to argue against, anything that isn't my fault.

I totally get what you're saying about the absurdity of the EA. Funny thing is, I wasn't pursuing it as a R, just as a friendship. It progressed past just friends because I let it fill the void left by my W. Lesson learned about slowing down, not making rash decisions, and thinking about what repercussions my actions will have.

That is all become old news to me, since then I have refocused on the needs of my kids and on being ok with myself.

On the mind reading, I've had all of those other thoughts as well, many confirmed by my W's words. All I know is I didn't know that my W was anything other than 100% certain until AFTER she found out. I'm not trying to belabor the point further, just trying to move from regret to growth.

As far as the 180s. Losing weight, exercising = major! Doing more around the house and as much as I can w/out being asked to. When asked to, doing it gladly instead of grudgingly. Being more upbeat in general. Trying to do the 180s I can sustain long-term.

GAL. More challenging. Trying to reconnect w/ friends, joining soccer league. It's hard because I'm not that outgoing and just the idea of trying to squeeze in more social time along w/ everything else exhausts me.

[Spacey]

I totally get what you're saying about the absurdity of the EA. Funny thing is, I wasn't pursuing it as a R, just as a friendship. It progressed past just friends because I let it fill the void left by my W. Lesson learned about slowing down, not making rash decisions, and thinking about what repercussions my actions will have.

For all intents and purposes, that's the very definition of a rebound. They occur when one is trying to fill a hole (or when their ego is bruised, or when they're feeling unattractive) following a rejection. I waited six months after my wife walked away to start dating, and I still rebounded.

People don't walk into a rebound relationship thinking "this is a rebound". They don't occur because people make snap decisions, or aren't making rash decisions, but because people are out of touch with their feelings after a rejection.

You keep blaming yourself for this EA of yours, but I haven't seen you take responsibility for it yet. You've come up with some excuses, but then you turn around and say it was inexcusable. Neither self-blame nor excuses are taking responsibility. Nor is attempting to appease your wife over issues surrounding the EA (that's a necessary thing to do in order to ease her hurt feelings, but it's still a separate thing).

Forgive yourself for the EA. Work to understand and get in touch with the underlying feelings of hurt and rejection that lead you down that path, and then forgive yourself. You cannot work toward rebuilding your wife's trust and earning her forgiveness if you haven't yet forgiven yourself.

You made a mistake. That mistake involved playing with your own feelings, and the feelings of two other people. It was a bad mistake! But we all make mistakes, and we all deserve to be forgiven our mistakes, even if only by ourselves. If you have to, have this conversation with yourself, out loud:

Joe: "Joe, I'm sorry for getting emotionally involved with OW. I was hurt, my ego was bruised, and I didn't want to confront that pain, so I let myself get distracted by OW's attention and affection. I'm sorry I neglected your feelings and your needs."

Joe: "It's OK, Joe. We all encounter negative feelings that we would rather pretend don't exist, at least every once in a while. I accept your apology, and I will work toward forgiving you."

GAL. More challenging. Trying to reconnect w/ friends, joining soccer league. It's hard because I'm not that outgoing and just the idea of trying to squeeze in more social time along w/ everything else exhausts me.

I think one of the first things you have to do in order to GAL, Joe, is to pull a 180 on how you talk about and address yourself. You're very down on yourself. "I'm not that outgoing" isn't a kind thing to say about yourself, and I highly doubt it's accurate. Being "outgoing" doesn't mean being, or even wanting to be, the life of the party. It's not being the cool kid that has all of the friends, and spends every night out on the town. If you're shy, or extremely introverted, that doesn't mean you're not outgoing. If you weren't, you wouldn't have attracted the attention of the OW, now would you? For all the damage your EA has caused you, at least try to take something positive away from the experience (in fact, try to take away or learn something positive about every experience you have in life!).

You're obviously an interesting man, Joe. You managed to attract your wife, and you managed to attract the OW. Part of being an interesting man is being outgoing! So stop trying to take that away from yourself!

Part of GAL is reconnecting with yourself. Your reason for doing so may ultimately be to become (amongst other things) more interesting and more (and therefore more attractive) in your wife's eyes, but ultimately it's a self-finding experience. This is important, because when your self-confidence has been so badly beaten down by a bad separation, by emotional or verbal abuse, or by a toxic relationship, a big part of YOU goes into retreat. It runs away and hides! It's your job now to go hunt yourself down and coax yourself back out of that cave where you've been living as a hermit. Go find Joe, and tell him that it's safe to come out now. Then take him bowling.

I'm going to echo something someone else said up thread. You sound like you're depressed. Depression makes it really, really difficult to GAL, because depression eats away at the part of your mind that says your capable of having a life. It's the voice in your head telling you that you don't have many (or any) friends. It's the voice saying that you don't have the time, that you don't have the money. You don't need the money! Do things that are cheap, or even free, if you have to! Just get out of the house. It's easy to do nothing but exist when you're sitting at home. It's a lot more difficult to nothing when you're at the mall, or the park, or the beach, or the art gallery, or the library, or the museum. Notice how, if you're feeling really introverted or tired of socializing, that none of those places require you to take other people along? Also notice that none of them preclude taking people along?

Getting out of the house will also help you fight your sadness and your funk. It's an easy first step (not that it's always easy to take that first step -- toddlers never take their first step on their first try!) toward recovery and GAL.

[Joe1981]

Spacey, I appreciate the feedback. I like the part about forgiving myself. I'm working on that.

I really don't think I'm depressed. I may have been for a while before the BD. I feel pretty good about life. I'm hopeful for my situation, but I know that I will make the best of my life no matter what happens.

When I say I'm not that outgoing, I don't mean that I'm not interesting or that I think badly of myself. What I mean is that I just don't enjoy being on the go a lot.

Getting involved in a soccer league, going to classes at the gym every morning, my kids activities, and back at work soon, plus staying up on all of the house and family day to day stuff that speaks my W's love language is a ton for me.

Being honest with myself, if I took on more than that, not only would I not be able to sustain it, I'd probably actually become depressed due to stress.

[Joe1981]

Now: as far as my situation goes...well, it's going ok.

I'm trying to not mind read. Tonight, she texted my from her room about some of the stuff from the really bad time. I think she's trying to work through the hurt I caused her. I think that because she basically said that. "A lot to absorb. I don't want to talk about it anymore."

I think processing and asking me and telling me how she feels beats yelling at me about it or calling me names. So I'll take it. We've been getting along very well aside from that. Having dinner together and talking about things in our days.

We're not piecing yet by any means. But maybe we're inching in that direction.