mleigh- just reading up on your posts and I find myself similar to you in many ways so thank you for posting your journey. I too got the "I just feel empty" speech which only came after I confronted him about why he was acting so distant to me -I don't know if he would have ever brought it up - I am sure it would have come out somehow but I just wonder. I also had emotionally shut down over the past years with the kids and I doubted my marriage enough that i started looking at ways to improve it - bought books, tried to talk to him but only got shut out - I knew our marriage was not in a good place but NEVER expected this. Our only communication is about the kids and mostly text messages - i waffle with just wanting it over with to being in it for the long haul but you have provided some encouragement for me. He still tries to "be nice" and do things like mow the yard - he offered to put tires on my car - I said no - just angry at the time and wanted to prove that I could manage without him. There have been several of those opportunities - perhaps I should start being nicer now that the anger is subsiding somewhat and allow him to do those things and try to show appreciation (it's just so hard). Thanks for posting your list of changes - I feel like I am so far deep into the madness I can't even think of the simple things to step back and evaluate my own progress - does that make sense? It's easier to see from someone else who has lived it and is going through it - I would be lost without this forum - convinced I was totally insane. Keep up the patience - it sounds like you are making some progress.