1st post. Long but please read, help!

[HopeTex]

Zeus, just wanted to reach out in support. I see a lot in common in out situations, and in the issues we face internally. Change is hard and scary. But we are making changes, and that is good. We are getting better and healthier. We will look back some day and know that this is when things turned around for us in a big way.

[25yearsmlc]

Zeus,
It sounds to me like your wife is in an affair.


Wow....Even if this^^^ were true (& as a woman I found NOTHING she said like what a woman in an affair would say),

for you to just blurt that out is inappropriate. And imo, inaccurate.

You projected your fears onto a new person here. A man still reeling from a blow to his heart and ego,

and you HAD to poison his desire for personal growth and healing with YOUR OWN suspicions, and plant more self doubt in him than he already has?

This happens way too much around here. Please Be more cautious with your statements. "Sounds like your wife is.." ...

The things she is saying and the speed with which she is moving you out all indicate it to me.


Really? Have you read the DB books that form the basis for this site? B/c Your statement is NOT in alignment with DB practices.

Don't bury your head in the sand. Look for evidence of what is really going on here. If you want a fighting chance, you must know what it is that you are up against.

-HS

Snooping is NOT advocated on this site. I don't know why some folks insist on pushing their agendas here, but there ARE other sites that do advocate snooping, and hiring PIs and testing their spouses and confronting and shaming, etc.

But not this one. (This site also has a higher than average success rate.)

I think you people should either follow this approach or go to another site- but don't remake this one into yours.

[25yearsmlc]

Question for the vets. I am getting conflicting advice from my DB coach vs what I've read on the forums here in regards to the 'friend zone' with my STBX.

STBX made the statement 'I hope we can stay friends' a week ago. She has started acting neighbor friendly- no deep emotional conversations, but a couple of friendly exchanges and texts.

Some threads talk about staying dark and detached to drive home the reality of the D. My DB coach thinks its great and says I should casually invite her to join in some things I'm doing with the kids when I'm visiting (whether its playing a game, going for a walk, etc). She says its all part of building a new relationship based on respect for her autonomy, good will, and collaborative coparenting.

Personally I am going to follow this advice for a few reasons. One, during the R one of my biggest faults was distancing during painful situations. So this is a 180. It also gives me opportunities for her to see my other changes. It allows us to work through details with the kids more easily and show them warm behavior. Most of all, I am appreciative that even if we never go beyond that I would rather forgive and let to of the pain and enjoy the positives we do get to have, even if I wish there would be more at some point.

So vets, am I missing something here that would hurt our growth or chances?

I want to say 2 things to you, At this point. (More later)

1) You are a brave man who has realized the real journey in life is an inward one. That insight, coupled with continued brave searches, will get you far here. I believe you will become a man only a fool would leave. Hopefully your wife will see that in time (and you will stay on this path.)

2) When there is a conflict between Coach's advice and ours (or you perceive there to be one), in my opinion, you go with the DB Coach.

They are more experienced than we are, they are NOT laden down with our personal biases and pain, and they know ALL the information we know, PLUS some.

And what good does it do YOU to be confused? I got so much out of this site AND my DB coach was a Godsend.

When in doubt, I went with the coach's advice, and never regretted it.

[Zues126]

Thank you all for following my thread and offering some support and feedback. Some stings but can’t be worse that D and cheeseless tunnels.

***Can anyone help with a validating reply?*** Here’s the set up. Last night I was at the house visiting the kids, the trash and recycling were overflowing so I took them out. There were a couple of things on top of the bins so I went to move them, one was a coffee mug and I fumbled, dropped it, and it broke. I emailed her last night letting her know, apologizing, and telling her I'd be more careful. Part of her reply was in regards to the mug, part was a 'thank you' for the gifts from the kids (DB instructions).

HINT- this isn't a new dynamic. She has been self righteous/angry for a few years now. I remember she had a crock-pot on the stove and I accidentally burned the knob while cooking pancakes once and she used that to viciously conclude I was insensitive and didn't care about anything but myself. Here are the two replies:

1) I won't lie, that mug had meaning. It's from the edible arrangement fruit thing XXXXX's mom sent me when I was in the hospital with D7 for her surgery and was my favorite. Accident yes, but ouch. Just put bags out the door or don't take them out. If I break something meaningful to me it's one thing. Someone else is another. Sorry this is prob harsh but direct and honest.

That being said, thank you for getting things for me from the kids. Not needed but they were happy to give me something not home made although their home made stuff means more than they will ever know.

2) Same mug is on ebay. Please get the same one because of the meaning or I will just order it myself.

[Zues126]

DB coach said I have to reply to emails same day. Need help validating. See above post. I want to make sure my reply doesn't sound anything like my pre-BD replies. Thanks!

[CaliGuy]

As far as the Mug, I would get it ordered on ebay, again apologize and let her know it was an accident and you want to do what you can to correct it (by having it replaced) and leave it at that. Its all you can do, you can not unbreak it ... validate by telling her you realize that it was important and understand how she feels. Then leave it at that

Just my .02 ... I am sure vets will help out, did appear to me your W did hold back a little bit ... my wife is that way, she would have let me have it, so I can understand your sitch on this a bit.

[Zues126]

EMAIL SENT: Ordered. Thank you for the link. Though it won't be the original the difficulty you endured and the support she showed deserves to be remembered.


That was my email. Seems simple enough, thanks for the support Cali. It's tough, I DID feel she let me have it both by dismissing and minimizing what I did for the birthday (saying she didn't need it and the homemade stuff they did without me was really special) and laying into me about the accident. Do you think she'd treat a neighbor that way?

Point isn't I think she's out of line. Just that I'm noticing a dynamic we've had of her criticizing me pointedly and me defending. My "doing something different" will be to not defend. I don't want to play that game anymore. She can attack me forever if she wants but I'm not going to let it cut me to ribbons like I've done in the past. I'll look at the pain I've caused her to drive her to that tone and change me and my behavior, but not going to be verbally beaten either.

[25yearsmlc]

EMAIL SENT: Ordered. Thank you for the link. Though it won't be the original the difficulty you endured and the support she showed deserves to be remembered.

Well done^^ and a lot better than I could have done it, at your stage of the game..


That was my email. Seems simple enough, thanks for the support Cali. It's tough, I DID feel she let me have it both by dismissing and minimizing what I did for the birthday (saying she didn't need it and the homemade stuff they did without me was really special) and laying into me about the accident. Do you think she'd treat a neighbor that way?

I didn't see her comments about the kids gifts the same way as you are now. I think she is trying to make the point that SHE does love their home made gifts and does not want THEM thinking they have to buy gifts, but she also thanked you for them. At least that's what I think she meant.

However, she should have been grateful for you at least taking the trash out. I can't assess the value of the particular mug but it IS a "thing", not a person..sheesh.


Point isn't I think she's out of line. Just that I'm noticing a dynamic we've had of her criticizing me pointedly and me defending. My "doing something different" will be to not defend. I don't want to play that game anymore. She can attack me forever if she wants but I'm not going to let it cut me to ribbons like I've done in the past.

I'll look at the pain I've caused her to drive her to that tone and change me and my behavior, but not going to be verbally beaten either.

2 notes.

First, I LOVE that you see this^^ as a chance for a 180, which it absolutely IS.

Second, you're showing EMPATHY for her viewpoint, even though she was a bit of a hard a$$.

Good for you.

[Zues126]

Thanks 25. You provide so much good feedback I'm thrilled to have you keeping up on my posts. I got a reply to my email: "thanks." Par for the course.

Yes, this was a big breakthrough moment for me. In the past I've gone to one of two extremes. Either I'd let it cut my heart out and apologize extensively to try to make her stop being angry with me...or I'd roll my eyes and dismiss what she was saying because it seemed so disproportionate. Now I'm trying to walk a middle ground of not letting her reactions hit me as hard emotionally, while still honoring her feelings underneath. Not just the surface issue of the mug, but how this symbolizes her feelings of hurt and neglect in the R.

And let me tell you. It does help to let to a bit. This would've really hurt me before. But I just get she's going to be dripping with scorn for a while and I need to focus on me. Although I have a bad sense of humor and part of me wanted to send back "yeah, I know what it means to lose something with a lot of memories. You lost a coffee mug. I lost my house. It's been pretty tough on both of us..." But that's just a joke for us DB'ers, I'm not comparing pain for a minute and know she has hurt deeply for a long time or we wouldn't be here. I assure you I regret my part of it and don't even pretend to understand just how much pain I caused.

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks 25. You provide so much good feedback I'm thrilled to have you keeping up on my posts. I got a reply to my email: "thanks." Par for the course.

Try to leave that^^ alone but at the same time see that she could have reacted much worse.

& To ME, that response (and here I am, MINDREADING!!), might mean she is a tad chagrined. She likely knows she over reacted.

She also feels (as you recognize) that a LOT of bad things have happened in the past and she's very emotionally "sore". She will be for some time.

You're wise to realize that it's not necessarily today's faux pas or mistake that she's reacting to, it's today's pain from yesterday's injury...

make sense?


Yes, this was a big breakthrough moment for me. In the past I've gone to one of two extremes. Either I'd let it cut my heart out and apologize extensively to try to make her stop being angry with me...or I'd roll my eyes and dismiss what she was saying because it seemed so disproportionate.


but now you can see that it's sort of "not" so disproportionate - in the context of where she is on her path towards a new R with you?

She has to let go of a whole lot of pain in order to heal and then rebuild with you.

She may not want to but no matter what she thinks her path is, ALL paths to wellness, will eventually require her (& all of us) to let go of our past pains...

that happens to really benefit YOU, as well as her, so it's a win win.

Let her feel it & let her react and then let it go... (besides, what choice do you have? OH yeah...none)

Do you get that?

Now I'm trying to walk a middle ground of not letting her reactions hit me as hard emotionally, while still honoring her feelings underneath.

Cool...good stuff.

Not just the surface issue of the mug, but how this symbolizes her feelings of hurt and neglect in the R.

YES...yes.

And let me tell you. It does help to let to a bit. This would've really hurt me before. But I just get she's going to be dripping with scorn for a while and I need to focus on me.

Anger/hurt festering pain And this is gross but illustrative...

"the putrid boil has to be "lanced" before it can heal." And she is spewing it out. Let her! Don't take it in...but do let her get rid of it. Back to YOU...


Although I have a bad sense of humor and part of me wanted to send back "yeah, I know what it means to lose something with a lot of memories. You lost a coffee mug. I lost my house. It's been pretty tough on both of us..." But that's just a joke for us DB'ers, I'm not comparing pain for a minute and know she has hurt deeply for a long time or we wouldn't be here. I assure you I regret my part of it and don't even pretend to understand just how much pain I caused.

Interesting comment...and probably accurate but I wonder if you should try to understand it or at least see it, and if so, for how long.

If my h really knew how much he had hurt our 2 d's when he left, I'm not sure he could handle it. I actually wonder if he'd flee the country b/c his shame would be that deep. I feel for him

But I also see him, now and then, trying to gloss over it b/c Imo, he begins to get an inkling and it's too painful for him. At those times I worry that I have to gently yet with clarity, remind him NOT to do that.

He and our d's are STILL working on their r's and it has been 5/7 years since he left us and later returned.
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