Mindsink - Part 2

[mindsin]

THIS is a BIG reason why you're still in this mess. Didn't the two of you go to C after your A's were discovered? The NUMBER ONE thing that she needed from you was FULL transparency. That would have helped to heal things faster and re-established trust. You should have allowed her full access to all of your emails and cell phone when ever and where ever she asked for it.

If you didn't do this, you didn't understand what she needed to heal.

We went to one session of C after the 3rd time she caught me. It was mildly productive. I remember being very defensive, very self-righteous, and not truly making an effort to understand her feelings. (Kind of like now, unfortunately)

[mindsin]

Mind,

3 questions.

1. Does Either family know about your past with the prostitutes?

2. How have you changed, and can you please list specific behaviors or actions that you have changed?

NOT things that you "won't do again" but that you have already stopped doing AND OR changed.

And

3. how have your attitudes or opinions changed? Have they?

1. People who know: Both sets of parents, my brother, my best friend, two of her friends, one of her cousins.

2. Things I've changed:
- Much more thoughtful with regard to sharing workload around the house, especially to give her more free time to herself and w/ the kids.
- Stopped criticizing her A, the OM.
- Much more thoughtful and respectful to her parents.

3. In the beginning, there was a lot of fear and anger (towards her and the OM). The anger has been almost completely eliminated, but the fear has not (entirely). I'm fearful of a future without her by my side. I'm fearful of the effects this will have on my children. I'm fearful about the inevitability of losing my house, and possibly being forced to relocate 2000 miles away from home away from my family, my friends, and the place I called home for 37 years.

[mindsin]

Regarding Trust

Wife made it clear to me that she doesn't care that I trust her, nor does she care to trust me.

She said: "I only trust you as the father to my children, and that's all I need from you at this point. I hope you never prove me wrong in that area."

If that is true (and not just her speaking out of anger)...

Then what could I possibly do to rebuild trust, especially hers? How do you get someone to even begin to trust you again, if that person doesn't give a crap about trusting you?

[25yearsmlc]

Are you willing to let her do that now?

Yes. I don't think I have anything left to hide at this point, unless I start doing something new to hide behind her back.

Well, that's not entirely true. She doesn't know about DB, or my postings here. I don't know if it's something I should share with her.

Yes you do know. The DB books say NOT to share them. They are for you and would make your 180s or change appear to be "tactics" to get her back, not real changes in you.

[MrBond]

"We went to one session of C after the 3rd time she caught me. It was mildly productive. I remember being very defensive, very self-righteous, and not truly making an effort to understand her feelings. (Kind of like now, unfortunately)"

THIRD time she caught you?! You seem to have left out alot in your situation. How can you not see her reasons for not trusting you?

By the time she told you ... ""I only trust you as the father to my children, and that's all I need from you at this point. I hope you never prove me wrong in that area." you were dead to her. She removed all trust she had in you and just cared about your interactions with your children.

If you want to re-establish that trust, one BIG thing you can do is to apologize for your communicating with other women and recognize that it was a violation of her trust and tell her that you would like her to trust you again and that you leave it up to her to do so. And to show your willingness, tell her that you will give her full access to your emails and cell phone. That she can check them at any time and you will respect her decision to do so.

That would be a start.

[mindsin]

MrBond - I do see the reasons why she doesn't trust me. I realize that my reaction to her snooping on my phone was, well...reactionary. I didn't see big picture.

Regarding your suggestion in your last paragraph -- I think I will do just that. However, I'm afraid her response will simply be, "I don't care."

I think I need to let it cool down for a couple of weeks before even attempting to bring that up. Establish a couple of weeks of friendliness. Don't start any new crap behind her back that would further erode whatever trust remains. In 5 days, I am going on a 10 day vacation (out of state) with my children, brother and SIL. This was a vacation that my wife booked and she was supposed to come with us. Understandably, now she doesn't feel comfortable going.

This will be good for both of us, I think. Of course, I'm going to fear that they will basically be living with each other during those 10 days, but there's nothing I can do so I have to stop worrying about that. What I also think about is the possibility of her bringing him to our house. However, that is a boundary that has been agreed upon, and I trust that she won't break it.

[MrBond]

"However, I'm afraid her response will simply be, "I don't care.""

So what? She hasn't cared in a LONG time because you kept breaking that trust.

The time to tell her what I advised is NOW.

You putting it off is just you acting the same way you had in the past. Sweeping it under the rug because YOU are afraid and not caring about your W's feelings AT ALL.

Look how that turned out for you.

[mindsin]

MrBond - Good point. I will tell her when I get home tonight.

There's one other problem though...she may ask for access to my credit card accounts. I purchased my DB coaching sessions through my credit card. She's going to see that and ask. Ugh!

[MrBond]

If she asks, just tell her that it is part of your ongoing therapy which was to learn why you did what you did in the M. Be honest.

[25yearsmlc]

MrBond - Good point. I will tell her when I get home tonight.

There's one other problem though...she may ask for access to my credit card accounts. I purchased my DB coaching sessions through my credit card. She's going to see that and ask. Ugh!

That's ^^NOT a problem. It's not even in the same GALAXY as the OW behaviors. Not even close. It's much more like the total opposite...


AND IF IF she discovers the DB coaching--and do NOT mention it to her--

but if she learns that you are paying someone to help you become a better husband to her,

(Not that you are trying to manipulate her get her back or control her, but how you can be better for/to her...

I'd bet my pinky finger she won't get "mad" at you. Note that she cannot see it as something you're doing to get her back, to control or manipulate her, but b/c you want to know HOW to be a better husband.

There is a huge HUGE difference between "My control lessons" and "studies on how to be a loving husband", which has to be your focus.

At worst, she'll scoff b/c of her doubts and how long it took or all the times before when you claimed to be working on the m (& she may well believe it's too late) but all things considered, you can handle that.

Mindsin, don't look for reasons to keep doing the same old thing, but somehow hope for a new result.

Remember, ^^that's an example of "true insanity". (= doing the same behavior repeatedly ----but expecting a different result).

FWIW, here's something I saw about men that seemed "instructive" for a lot of people.

Make of it what you will. (I am not sure of the author)

"Here’s to all the REAL MEN out there.

Boys play house, Men build homes.
Boys shack up, Men get married.
Boys make babies, Men raise children.
A boy won’t raise his own children, A man will raise someone else’s.
Boys invent excuses for failure, Men produce strategies for success.
Boys look for somebody to take care of them,
Men look for someone to take care of.
Boys seek popularity, Men demand respect and know how to give it.



Food for thought.