Not sure what to do

[Bob1967]

Believe me Mr. Bond. My wife is VERY specific. You would hate to be cross-examined by her. Her attention to detail could drive you insane.

There were two things she complained about:

(1) She wanted me to stand up for her.
(2) She wanted me to make her #1 in our marriage.

She says I allowed her to "merge into my current family" but I never gave her "top billing."

I absolutely don't think this is true. I think I always put her first. To me she was #1.

At least this is how I felt in my mind. She may disagree with me but it doesn't negate my feelings toward her.

I will agree I didn't "stand up for her" the way she wanted.

Let me be clear. My wife is not timid! She didn't need me to defend her.

When she says "stand up for her" her definition is that I should never publically disagree with her.

She says married couples should always present a unified front 100% of the time to the outside world. She says if I have a disagreement with her to "take it inside the cone of silence of our home."

Here is an example of where she doesn't feel I stood up for her:

She says the final straw happened when some members of my family unfriended her on FB this May. She was really surprised. So was I.

She hasn't had contact with any members of my family since April 2013. The last time she saw my family it was really positive. Truthfully, my wife had a great relationship with all my relatives until I left her the first time in June 2013.

Honestly, the only problem they had with her is that I was unhappy.

She doesn't post anything but funny stuff on her FB page. So when she was unfriended she was really hurt. She said unfriending her was an "unprovoked act of hostility."

She wanted me to do something. I didn't know what to do. She badgered me to unfriend everyone who unfriended her. So I did. But that didn't make her happy.

She wanted me to ask them why they had unfriended her. She said this was an example of our marriage. How "they were more important" how they were "number one."

She said if she was "#1" I would be outraged over their actions. She said they were sending a message that it didn't matter whether we were reconciling...they wanted her out of the family.

Come on! It was FB. Mountains out of molehills. Let it go.

And then...BAM!

"See Bob--this is what I'm talking about. I spent an entire year ignoring the petty slights from your family. And in response they escalated their behavior. Instead of taking the reigns and saying, 'Knock it off. This is my wife.' You told me to, 'ignore it and get along with them. When it comes to whose feelings get protected it is never mine. They are #1 not me.'

I'm certainly not going to destroy my relationship with my family to prove my love for my wife. I think my wife is being emotionally destructive and manipulative.

I unfriended the bad actors on FB. I asked my sister what she knew about the unfriending (one of the bad actors was her 20-year old daughter). My sister didn't know anything about it.

Enough. This is childish. I am not going into my family like a wrecking ball over FB. My wife has to learn when to let things go.

[sandi2]

" I think I always put her first. To me she was #1."

Here's the difference.....,she has to feel she is top billing. If she does not feel you make bed #1, then you can argue all dAy about it, but it won't change how she feels less th?/-an first place.

!

[25yearsmlc]

" I think I always put her first. To me she was #1."

Here's the difference.....,she has to feel she is top billing. If she does not feel you make bed #1, then you can argue all dAy about it, but it won't change how she feels less th?/-an first place.

!

Bob, surely down deep you KNOW she could not possibly feel as if she has top billing with you. You have bad mouthed her to your family and friends. To ME, as a wife, that seems so disloyal.

My h is the one guy in the world I need to have my back, so he cannot be backstabbing me to the world!

If my h's family or friends did ANYTHING rude to me (and unfriending me IS a rude if not juvenile, act)

I would absolutely know my h would say or do something. I KNOW THIS based on our history.
If my h had NOT taken "my side" with his family, we'd be over.

Not out of my pride --but bc I would never have felt safe around his family afterwards....and if he can't stand up to his family for me, what would he do around a big dangerous stranger or several, OR a controlling critical boss? I mean, his family follows HIS lead.

Of course she's mortified & Humiliated b/c you aired all your dirty laundry to them. And you did not own your part of it at all.

You did NOT say "we have marriage problems". You said "Wife is abusive" and if that were completely accurate and true, totally, no one would advise you to be with her.

OR they'd say you both need help. Here is what I don't get.

Here, You blamed her for ALL the problems.

Now, despite how "abusive" you said she is (BTW Can you name 2 traits in her that you like? I can't think of one nice thing you have said about her, off the top of my head).

So as evil as you said she is, now you say you WANT to go home but she has to admit HER wrong before you will and that your pride won't let you go home.


SIGH...

(Talk about wanting to be "right" more than wanting to be "happy".)

Bob, Decide if your pride or your wife is more important. Decide if she is "abusive" or if you both stink at resolving conflict.

Decide if you both are willing to get real help, which means you both must change AND not measure whether the spouse is also changing or "changing enough". Lose those scorecards.

Bob -the problem with scorecards is that the SPOUSE has their own! And on theirs, we are NOT ahead!

Since the m sounds so toxic, maybe you both ought to learn some conflict resolution classes FIRST. And some "safe communication" methods.

Then try to have a real marriage. Just my .02

[25yearsmlc]

Believe me Mr. Bond. My wife is VERY specific.
There were two things she complained about:

(1) She wanted me to stand up for her.
(2) She wanted me to make her #1 in our marriage.

She says I allowed her to "merge into my current family" but I never gave her "top billing."

I absolutely don't think this is true. I think I always put her first. To me she was #1.

At least this is how I felt in my mind. She may disagree with me but it doesn't negate my feelings toward her.

I will agree I didn't "stand up for her" the way she wanted.

That is all that matters!

Let me be clear. My wife is not timid! She didn't need me to defend her.

Yes she did. Obviously.


---

Here is an example of where she doesn't feel I stood up for her:

She says the final straw happened when some members of my family unfriended her on FB this May. She was really surprised. So was I.

She hasn't had contact with any members of my family since April 2013. The last time she saw my family it was really positive. Truthfully, my wife had a great relationship with all my relatives until I left her the first time in June 2013.

Honestly, the only problem they had with her is that I was unhappy.


which YOU are not responsible for at all....


She doesn't post anything but funny stuff on her FB page. So when she was unfriended she was really hurt. She said unfriending her was an "unprovoked act of hostility."

Isn't it?

She wanted me to do something. I didn't know what to do. She badgered me to unfriend everyone who unfriended her. So I did. But that didn't make her happy.


Did you feel concerned for her at all? Or just "badgered" by HER and not hurt FOR her?
You are showing a remarkable LACK of empathy for her...really remarkable.


She wanted me to ask them why they had unfriended her. She said this was an example of our marriage. How "they were more important" how they were "number one."

She said if she was "#1" I would be outraged over their actions. She said they were sending a message that it didn't matter whether we were reconciling...they wanted her out of the family.

How do you NOT see the validity of this?? ^^ You felt NOTHING when you saw that YOUR FAMILY hurt your wife, all b/c of what YOU told them?

You don't see how you created this whole thing between them?


Come on! It was FB. Mountains out of molehills. Let it go.


Bob, aren't you the one who "has a BIG problem letting go of past hurts"???? Isn't that something you are working on in therapy?

Again, what a remarkable lack of empathy you are revealing.

And then...BAM!

"See Bob--this is what I'm talking about. I spent an entire year ignoring the petty slights from your family. And in response they escalated their behavior. Instead of taking the reigns and saying, 'Knock it off. This is my wife.' You told me to, 'ignore it and get along with them. When it comes to whose feelings get protected it is never mine. They are #1 not me.'

I can see why your wife feels this^^ way. I'm sure you can't, but then, that's the issue isn't it?

I'm certainly not going to destroy my relationship with my family to prove my love for my wife.

that ^^ says it all. Go live with your family then, b/c some of us think HUSBANDS/WIVES are our family

but I guess you don't.

"A man shall leave his family and cleave to his wife"....ever hear that?

I think my wife is being emotionally destructive and manipulative.


Maybe so. Maybe she is "abusive" to your family....

All I know is what you post here. Your family did a sh1tty thing to YOUR WIFE. As long as you are divorcing her anyhow, so what I guess....they did it out of what they think is loyalty to you and all you really had to do was inform them that loyalty to you means kindness/respect to your wife.

AND if you think you ever want to have a chance at reconciling, this crap has to stop and YOU are the only one who can stop it.
--

Enough. This is childish. I am not going into my family like a wrecking ball over FB. My wife has to learn when to let things go.

Maybe you can teach her to let go of things - when you learn to let of or your "past hurts"

including those from years ago, which "prevent" you (along with pride) from going home to your wife...which you also say, that you WANT to do.

Bob, you are one confused guy and it makes it very hard to help you b/c I can't tell what you want or can handle.

I hope sandi can help you more than I can. She's a great DBer.

[MrBond]

Okay NOW we're getting somewhere. 25yearsmlc did a VERY good job at pointing out how what you did pushed your W away.

You weren't there for her the way SHE wanted you to be. Alot of your reasoning for why you did certain things and approached things were based of what YOU believed. Not your W. Have you actually read the books?

You need to understand her POV rather than just saying that she was "bitching" at you all the time. You never understood WHY or WHAT she was really trying to get through to you.

Are you willing to approach this with an open mind or just see your W as a "bitch" who needs to change?

[sandi2]

I can tell you from personnel experience that no matter how small it may seem to you, if she does not feel your support, it will cause a seed of resentment to start growing. She won't be the warm, sweet & loving girl you want b/c carrying that resentment around has made her bitter.

You said something about not choosing her over your family b/c the whole FB thing was silly. But now you have separated, so see where it can lead?

[Bob1967]

Let me start by saying nice things about my wife.

My wife has a heart of gold. She is kind and gentle. She has a genuine forgiving nature. She can connect with people and form deep friendships. People love her.

She is strong. Not just physically but mentally. Her morale character can never be questioned. Her word it is good.

She is pretty. Seriously pretty. She literally turns heads when she walks in a room. She has the body of a centerfold—which she hates. She thinks her body takes away her ability to be taken seriously in the business world. She won’t wear shorts in public or a bathing suit at the beach. So I’m the only one who gets to see her body.

She is very sexual. I’m more repressed than she is. She rarely turns me down for sex. I was a virgin when we got married. She was not. Any problems we have with our sex life is not her fault.

She is independent emotionally and financially. She insisted we maintain independent interests and friends as well as mutual interests and friends. She is a success professionally and one of the highest paid people in her field.

She is deeply spiritual. She will tell you her number one loyalty is to God. Her second is to me. She believes our marriage is a covenant with God. She claims the day she agreed to be my wife she never allowed any other man to enter her thoughts. She believes we are meant to be together until “death do we part” because of the covenant we made to God.

Is that enough nice things about my wife?

I get it. My wife looks pretty perfect. But she also screams and calls me names when she is angry. She flies into rages that are terrifying and she can be emotionally abusive.

Here is my issue with the FB situation:

After I unfriended the people who unfriended my wife I don’t know what more I could have done.

After reading the posts everyone seems to think there is something more I could have done about the FB incident. What? What? What?

Everyone is implying somehow I am responsible for these people’s actions.

I am not.

Two members of my family unfriended my wife on FB without my knowledge or my consent. I unfriended the bad actors. There is nothing further I can do.

I’m not sure how this became a marital problem.

What people choose to do---they do. I can’t control other people’s behavior. I am truly at a loss on what I could have done different.

Yes.

I bad-mouthed my wife to my family when I left her in June 2013. But I barely talk about her or my marriage to any of them anymore. I’ve learned!

Last Thanksgiving when I went to my sister’s house I asked them why they didn’t send my wife a birthday card (it was the first time they ever ignored her birthday). They said they felt “uncomfortable.” I didn’t know what to do with that. I figured this would end with time.

I volunteered to post a FB message telling the world I was wrong when I left my wife.

But my wife said “no.” She said it would not serve a purpose. She said humiliating myself would be destructive to our marriage.
Then she turns around and says I need to have her back.

I don’t know what this means.

I put money in the joint account even though I don’t live at home. I offer to take care of the lawn and other household maintenance even though I don’t live there. I offer to take care of the dog when she is traveling.

I have apologized. I have apologized over and over again. But she won’t accept my apology.

Yes. I said I won’t move back home until she asks me to come home. I can’t. She told me to move out.

I called her about the separation papers but she didn’t call me back. I waited to hear from before sending her a copy of the papers. I figured we could talk. But I never heard from her. I still haven't send the papers.

I don’t know what to do.

I don’t think I’m keeping a scorecard.

You guys keep talking to me as if I have this diabolical mind. I don’t. I was a 30 year old virgin when I started dating my wife. I am 47 now.

My wife is the only woman I ever loved. I dated one girl in high school. My wife is the only real relationship I’ve ever had.

I don’t know how I got her. It was a fluke. We were really great friends and somehow she fell in love with me. It was a million-to-one shot. I will never get this lucky again.

I know I don’t understand women. I never did. I was a dud at dating. And I certainly don’t understand my wife. But she made it really easy to be married to her. So I didn’t have to understand her.

Then things got rough and it wasn’t easy being married to her. I know I failed her as a husband. No one has to tell me this.

In 2008, her mother died and I wasn’t there for her. When my wife said, “I’m okay.” I believed her and selfishly continued my life without a thought about how much her life had changed. I would have been there for her if she had asked but that was my problem—she had to ask. And she never asked.

I get it. I don’t see anything but me. I don’t know why I don’t see anything but me but I don't.

And yes—I’ve read all the books and it doesn’t help. The books assume you understand something about relationships. I don’t.

They assume you understand yourself. I don’t.

So there you have it. This is Bob...

[Bob1967]

I wanted to revisit saying something nice about my wife. I think my last post made it sound like I resent saying something nice about her.

I want to tell a story I think illustrate the kinds of woman my wife is. So here goes:

Last January my wife and I got into a huge fight. She told me to leave so I moved out..again. She asked me to come home and I did. She explained how much it hurt that I kept refusing to recommit to the marriage.

I felt guilty so I quick claimed the house to her and gave her all the money in our joint savings account. It was about $50,000. She didn’t ask for any of this. I just wanted to stop feeling guilty about what I was doing to her.

The house is worth about $435,000. We owe about $250,000. She took the quick claim deed and didn’t say anything more about it. We literally never spoke of it again.

During this time our relationship continued to deteriorate and I moved into the basement. Then she gave me the deadline of this summer to make up my mind about the marriage or move out.

One day in March, I came into my office and there was a hand written note from her. Attached to the note was the quick claim deed and check for $50,000.

The note said she would not take the house or the money. She said it wasn’t ethical. The note said if we divorced then assets would be divided fairly.

I don't know very many people who would walk away from 100% of the marital assets when they don't know the state of their marriage. Especially when their partner continually refuses to commit.

But my wife would never take advantage of anyone. No matter what that person did to her. That is the kind of person my wife is.

[MrBond]

"I wanted to revisit saying something nice about my wife. I think my last post made it sound like I resent saying something nice about her."

Probably because you made sarcastic comments like ... "Is that enough nice things about my wife?"

It's VERY obvious that you and her don't communicate very well and when you don't seem to understand what the other is saying, YOU run away and complain and SHE yells and thinks that by talking louder, it will make you understand better.

Case in point, your post above about the house.

"Last January my wife and I got into a huge fight. She told me to leave so I moved out..again. She asked me to come home and I did. She explained how much it hurt that I kept refusing to recommit to the marriage.

I felt guilty so I quick claimed the house to her and gave her all the money in our joint savings account."

Unless you left something out, she never said that she wanted your house and assets. She said you "kept refusing to recommit to the marriage". To you, recommitment meant MONEY. To her it means something more on the emotional level.

But you can't seem to understand that. You think she wanted "physical" acts where instead she wanted you to "show" her that you were the man she wanted. But instead of catching the hint, you took it as her being "abusive" when in fact, she is actually telling you what she would like you to change and be a better H to her.

If you didn't keep shutting down, things would get better. If you haven't already, maybe the next time she talks to you about something, stop what you're doing, look her in the eye and listen. Really give her your undivided attention. Then when she's done talking, validate her and respond with something like ... "okay, if I understand correctly, you're saying..." and repeat what she just told you.

It seems fairly evident that your W doesn't want to be proven right or wrong. She just wants to be HEARD. Try it out. It may not take on the first, second, fifth attempts. But it will. You just need to be PATIENT and LEARN.

Are you willing to do that?

[sandi2]

You guys keep talking to me as if I have this diabolical mind. I don’t.

Well I, for one, certainly didn't mean to give that impression. I would really like to help you understand where your W is coming from, if I can. But please don't be too sensitive b/c everything can't be said at one time in one post, so it may come across more bluntly than intended, IDK.

I know I don’t understand women. I never did. I was a dud at dating. And I certainly don’t understand my wife. But she made it really easy to be married to her. So I didn’t have to understand her.

And that's probably the problem right there ^. I not only try to tell LBH's about WAW's and their mindset, but maybe....just maybe I can share with you a little about a W who feels her H doesn't have her back.

Your description of the nice part of your W sounds beautiful. Has she ever heard you say those exact things to her? You see, some husbands assume she "knows" all of that already. But that's beside the point. A woman needs to hear it from him.....and some women need to hear it a lot.

She may be the most beautiful, talented, successful lady in town. She may get praises everywhere she goes. She may hear it a hundred times a day from people. But what you think of her....is most important over anyone else. You may think that she already "knows" how & what you think of her. But that's not the point. A woman needs to HEAR it from her man. (And I am referring to her hearing positive comments from you, like the ones you said about her nice side. Negative comments will tear her down.)

You may see her as the most confident woman ever. She probably is confident! You see her as being emotionally independent. But even the best player on the team still likes to be cheered on. The best employee wants to hear he/she is doing a great job from the boss. Don't you agree? And I'm not suggesting you never say anything nice, but sometimes after we have been M a few years, we get kind of lazy in stroking their ego.

So, she still needs to hear you say positive things about her...and to her. Some men think, "Well, she already knows...so why do I need to tell her what she already knows?"

I believe most human beings have emotional needs. I don't think it makes us emotionally "dependent" on another person. I just believe it's one of the things that makes us human. I think we can have a healthy self esteem and have emotional needs. I just say that to let you know where I'm coming from and not to imply you don't know it.

It's difficult for us to accept criticism from our S. We want them to cherish us....not to find fault in us. It can cause a lot of hurt (depending on the situation, how the criticism was expressed, timing, etc.) But when or if the criticism from our S is expressed to us in front of others....or expressed to others behind our back, it seems to multiply the pain b/c we have other emotions added (embarrassment, anger, sense of betrayal, etc.)

I don't know if your wedding vows has this part or not.....
“Thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart, and shalt cleave unto her and none else”. It doesn't mean we can't have others in our life, but our S is to be set above anyone and anything else. Even our extended families. (The only exception is God.) The Bible commands the woman to respect her husband, and the man to love his wife. Interesting, don't you think? A man may feel he is being disrespected if his W criticizes him in front of others, but a woman can feel as if he is betraying her. Even those with healthy self-esteem can feel less than the most loved by her H, at that moment. Yes, she "knows" he loves her but it's the betrayal she "feels" that causes the hurt and plants a seed of resentment that will start to grow. He was suppose to be her protector and defender! But instead, she feels as if he is the one slaying her.

This post is getting way too wordy so I'll have to continue in the next one. I hope you'll be patient with me while I try to get this out.