DBing after WAW then reactive EA by me...NO QUIT!

[25yearsmlc]

Usually I stay out of people’s business--but I know Joe is going to have a rough patch in the next few days. When that happens he is going to latch on to labug like you are a life raft.

Joe is going to say his wife is a crazed woman and she is verbally abusive and he was engaging in wishful thinking when he thought they could reunite.

So here is my question:

What the heck labug?

Why are you stirring the pot with Joe? What’s in it for you? You got a beef with him? You don’t want him to reconcile with his wife?

What’s up?

Though LaBug hardly needs me speaking for her, I would like to address some of your questions and comments Bob.

She's using a form of the Socratic method of "self discovery" and self learning --she often does, and with wonderful results---so that by her asking Joe the harder questions, HE can look inside and see how HE frames things that do not help his situation.

It's a common method of teaching and of therapy.

Let me give you my perspective.

Joe and his wife hit a rough patch in their marriage. When this happened Joe and his wife stopped being companions and started being adversaries.

His wife stopped being kind. So Joe stopped being kind. His wife started being combative so Joe started being combative. His wife started being aggressive. So Joe became aggressive. His wife started becoming verbally abusive…

And they kept escalating their bad behavior until they couldn’t stand each other anymore and Joe moved out.

While you have the right to your perspective, of course, I must say that ^^ is not how I saw Joe's marriage or his story here.

I saw & heard Joe pretty much admit to being a mediocre h, who so deeply frustrated his wife, and over such a long period of time, that she "went batchit crazy" on him...

and that is IF we are to believe his descriptions and IF we assume he left nothing out about his own role or his own behavior.

Most posters who describe such extremes, not all but most, omit important facts or give them out in a piece meal fashion. Sometimes they lie by omission, but later report never hearing those terms ("lying by omission") til getting here and being called out on it.

It can be painful to watch or experience but it DOES help to "Force" some more in-depth self searching and genuine growth.


Joe’s life turned into a nightmare that he couldn’t wake up from. He couldn’t do anything right because he didn’t know where the starting point was anymore. He wanted to make sense of his life. Why was this happening to him?

He wanted to blame her.

So he painted his wife in the most unflattering way possible on this chat board—because that is what you do on chat boards.


I strongly disagree. At first when I posted here, I wanted a simple "instruction manual" on how to change my h back into who he once was or who I thought he once was.

Then I got healthier and my DB coach helped me realize I only controlled ME and that meant, that when I posted here, I began to want to know what I could do to work on ME and that is sure as heck why I stayed and kept posting here.

In TIME, I learned that all I could do was work on ME and so I posted more and more honestly and in full, here on these chat boards.


Often we paint our spouses to be better than they are b/c we are mortified we may have married real jerks. A lot of times we paint ourselves as better, OR worse, than reality b/c either that is how we feel on a given day, and or b/c we want permission to quit--- or be a doormat --- or we have some agenda that colors our descriptions.

FWIW, Venting is only helpful if one feels BETTER afterwards and in some way learns.

When I see someone here who is bashing the heck out of their spouse, I first look to see how new their situation is-- b/c a total newbie is NOT ready to hear that they have no control over their spouse, and that they have to look within for the only person they may be able to change.

They are often reeling and our concern then, is to get them thru the hellish first weeks til they can see straight. Then we start on the "real" DB work.

But re venting...IMO, more often than not, venting keeps us spiraling in negativity and keeps us stuck in our victimhood. It's usually NOT productive.

The folks who mostly paint their spouses badly and inaccurately, usually get "caught" and then - IF ALL GOES WELL,--this is "revealed to them" by using Bug's techniques here.

Then we can hope their perspective starts to get a bit more fair and more realistic and they might just end the blame game. OR at least take on more responsibility for their choices.


Joe is not going to get on a chat board—while his life is spilling downhill and tell us how awesome his wife is and “Gosh, golly, me and the little woman are going to get a soda at the malt shop after this little spat blows over.”

I think most of us know Joe was venting about his wife.

Just like most of us know Joe is remembering all the wonderful things that he loves about his wife.

Which brings me back to you, labug.

Why are you making Joe [b]defend the terrible things he said about his wife?

The only people I know who do that are people who stir the pot.[/b]

IMO, you have misread & misinterpreted her words and misjudged her intent. And that's unfortunate for all, b/c Labug is a huge resource here.

She is what's referred to as an "expert vet" who has dug very deeply inside and made huge internal changes in herself AND her marriage is being restored as we speak.

She's a success story.

I wish you had politely asked her what she meant, rather than telling her she's "just stirring the pot" and "making Joe defend terrible things he said".

I don't think that is at all what was trying to achieve. As for "what's in it for" her, I'd say nothing. She gives this board her time, for free. As for whether she has a "beef with him", I can say with almost 100% certainty that she does NOT.

As for whether she wants him to reconcile with his wife, my assumption is based on knowing her and reading her posts here for a few Years now, and I'd say her first goal is the same as mine here. Helping the person improve a marriage IF it's the type of marriage that can ever be healthy (in some cases, like with actual physical abuse, most of us will NOT say "go home and cope better". Most of us will say to get some professional help asap.)

DB is more about saving yourself and THEN hopefully saving your marriage.

You may not have been here long enough to know what we mean, but when a person's ego is so crushed from a toxic marriage, then that has to be addressed BEFORE we can support any type of reconciliation with the person who is doing the damage.

IF Joe's wife really is as physically abusive as he said and if this is typical at all for her, heck yes that would need some intervention.

((Imagine if Joe were "Josephine" and his wife were the husband, breaking down a door to get to her...

and just so you know, we've seen assaults on this board, and at least 2 suicides...so we take violent behavior seriously, but we also take mood swings and distorted perspectives seriously too.)))

I THINK, that La Bug wanted Joe to see how badly his negative views on things create more problems, and how unproductive such a poor self image, coupled with a victim based "woe is me" attitude, can be. UNLESS it was all true and accurate and in that case, we cannot sweep that under the rug.

HIS ATTITUDE changes daily, true. But Joe seems surprised that he can get better results when he's not bashing and blaming and assuming the worst.

That is a lesson. It's NOT asking him to "defend" his comments [b]at all.
[/b]
I guess you'd have preferred she spell this all out to him, but a lot of us think it's much better learned when it's self discovered. Some can, some can't.

But so you know,

it is asking him to SEE how his words and perspectives - change OUTCOMES...

AND OR

her questions could serve to remind him of what he wants to so quickly forget...at his peril - and at the risk it may pose to his children, (Ie her violent outbursts).

I hope you hear me on this Bob, b/c to me it sounded as if you just insulted a woman who deserves better, and who has so much to offer...

based on your misinterpretation of her posts & intent.