1st post. Long but please read, help!

[Zues126]

Think I just had to get that out. Reality check. Both in the sense that while I'm a better father, have been more laid back, more considerate, and made some small steps...long way to go. I'll forget about how far and just keep hiking. Thank you.

[Zues126]

OK, for anyone that survived my previous post, here's the update. I spoke with my DB Coach today. Among other things I brought up how I had been feeling last night.

She told me that while many men never change, I was by no means destined to be destructive in my relationships forever. She said most men who don't change (based on her experience with thousands) denied, deflected, blamed, and justified their behavior. And that when my talk is dissatisfaction with how little I've grown, and disgust with my role in the M destruction, she says that I absolutely have a chance to grow.

The next thing she said was that I shouldn't focus so much on what I did that didn't work. But instead I should focus on what I'm doing now that IS working. She says beating the dead horse doesn't help and actually hurts.

When I told her I couldn't figure out what was wrong with me for being so controlling in my R, she told me that I had mixed up wants with needs. She said that I wasn't getting what I needed, and that I was trying to force things I WANTED that I thought would fill that void. She said I may never get exactly what I wanted, but that it would be possible to get what I needed. She referenced feeling 'significant, appreciated, cared about, and desirable'.

That made me hopeful. I definitely felt cared about, but did feel pretty undesirable and insignificant in my R. It was always about the kids, etc. And by STBX playing the role of the noble sacrificial martyr that gave everything for the family, I took on the role of the taking dominant controlling H. I don't want that ever again. But it gives me hope that if I can change and be a better H, and my partner gives me what I need...I can go without some of the perversions I thought I needed.

To be clear, I'm not patting myself on the back. And I wasn't fishing for praise. I just felt so down and defeated yesterday it was nice to have just enough hope to keep going. And I have to. Giving up hope would be selfish because my kids need me, and maybe even my W will need me to make the changes I need to make.

Goodnight all,

Z

[Zues126]

I might get crucified for this post but I’ve been thinking about my STBX’s role in the downfall of the marriage. I’m starting to think she was wired to be a bit sadistic. If she just was playing a subconcious game of ‘now I’ve got you you son of a *****!’ in which the goal was to be the righteous victim. So she sacrificed everything, more than I wanted her to ever. She gave up her life, did nothing for herself, and blamed it all on me. Then she cut me off from any feelings of significance, desire, or intimacy, and starved me of affection. Then when I got frustrated and acted out she saved up each offence in a journal and built a case against me that was used to crucify me at judgment day. Now I’m the abusive bad husband and she’s playing the game of ‘reclaiming her identity’.

I’m not playing that game anymore. I know she loved me, and I know consciously she didn’t want to suffer, didn’t want to hurt me. Maybe it’s just the way she was programmed. I do know it is EXACTLY how things played out with her mom and her dad. Her mom left her dad, is still single, and is still seething at her dad after all these years. For sure there are many things she could’ve changed, many ways she could have communicated differently with me, and many things we could’ve tried together before she threw it in. But she accomplished her goal of satisfying herself that a marriage just wasn’t possible.

I’ve been so focused on my own problems, my own issues, my own destruction, I haven’t until now even thought seriously about her role. But I’m starting to realize she had a serious part in it. Maybe more serious since she ended it.

How is that the DB way to focus on her? It's not, and I'll go back to focusing on me. It just helps me for two reasons. One, as per my prior posts it's a reminder that I'm not the Devil, just a poisonous person that has no choice but to bring pain to those I love. And two, this helps me to remember that even if she is ever open to reconciliation someday I have to be cautious that she is ready to win, and done playing victim.

OK. That all said I've been following my DB's coach and have plans for my STBX's Bday...I'll post if anyone is interested but it's basically cool gifts from the kids that show some consideration...goodnight all!

[Ss06]

You're digging deep and that's good. I'm impressed.

I hope stbx's birthday goes off without a hitch. Birthdays are hard enough to plan for let alone throwing all this crap into the mix. Let us know how it all goes. Good luck!

[MrBond]

What a change from your 2nd post where you said...

"One was after a long string of no sex and rejected attempts to initiate. I was really resentful about it, and somehow we had a conversation in which she had asked me 'what's wrong'. That infuriated me. I marched over to the calendar on the wall and circled a date that occurred like 3 weeks ago and said something like "This is the last day we had any type of physical connection. That just doesn't work for me. And what's really bothersome is that you have to ask. I've told you this is important to me in every way I know how, but somehow you just don't get it. Either you can't understand this one concept or you just don't care about me." I probably went on to say that if I was ever in a bad mood again just ask herself if we've been intimate in the last week and if the answer was 'no' don't bother asking. To this day she says she remembers the rage in my eyes when I circled the calendar and says that something inside of her broke at that time.

Beyond that, there were instances in which I pressured her to having sex, and doing things she wasn't comfortable with. I knew I was pressuring her, but somehow thought it was ok because I was only getting what was reasonable. I felt like we loved each other, if she loved me she should give me what I wanted.

I also used pornography during our entire relationship and was upset she wouldn't join in. I never hid it, but felt like she was being unreasonable and prudish that she wouldn't participate and use it as a chance to get closer to me (sharing fantasies, etc).

So while I never hit her or did anything physically, there is no question I was guilty of some terrible things.

I still battle with some of these things. "

I guess the demanding sex and pornography had nothing to do with it. She is really an evil woman to deny you those basic things.

[Zues126]

Thanks Ss06! Not many replies, I appreciate the support.

My STBX has two hobbies...photography and gardening. She's doing more with both since separation. So, what I did was get her an assortment of gardening tools (a box set of tools with cute colorful designs, matching gloves, a few pots, etc). Then I got 3 gift bags that said "Happy Birthday" and "Hooray you were born". Finally, when I was at the house and she was out getting groceries I got a picture of the three kids outside in front of a tree holding up the three bags. It was cool, my best picture, light from the sunset poring through the tree branches and all kids smiling with their birthday gifts for her. I am going to have it printed off and frames, then when I'm there on Sunday I'm going to have the kids give her the gifts from them.

As for my last post, I promise I am truly looking back at my role in all of this. The fact is that I am DETERMINED to become an H only a fool would leave. No matter what she did there is NO excuse for how I responded. And I have a long road ahead. However...I am determined. This is too important to me. Up to 6 weeks of no porn tonight, doing well on my 180s, etc.

The whole part of thinking about her role was to help me detach. I am little by little starting to realize it's possible that she wanted a divorce all along. Even if that's not true it helps me accept that no matter what I do it may not get the results I want, and that it may not even be all my fault. Trust me, I LOVE her and I'm not using this as an excuse to give up. But I do intend to be a great husband for someone someday. Time (a LOT of time) will tell if I'm fortunate enough for it to be with her.

[MrBond]

"As for my last post, I promise I am truly looking back at my role in all of this. The fact is that I am DETERMINED to become an H only a fool would leave."

So a "good" H, in your opinion, is one who says that his W is ... "wired to be a bit sadistic."

"No matter what she did there is NO excuse for how I responded."

No you should change that sentence to just "There is NO excuse for how I responded". It doesn't matter what she did.

"And I have a long road ahead. However...I am determined. This is too important to me. Up to 6 weeks of no porn tonight, doing well on my 180s, etc."

Good starting points, but you still blame her for alot of your "hurt". Despite your addiction, demands on sex, etc.

"The whole part of thinking about her role was to help me detach."

Wrong way to detach. Detachment through hate and anger never works. All it does is bring resentment to you which will come out in your interactions with her.

"I am little by little starting to realize it's possible that she wanted a divorce all along. Even if that's not true it helps me accept that no matter what I do it may not get the results I want, and that it may not even be all my fault."

BS. That's just you internally shifting the blame onto her. It's what addicts do. SHE caused you to go to porn. SHE was selfish in not offering you sex, etc. Alcoholics never blame themselves. They blame the person giving them the bottle.

"Trust me, I LOVE her and I'm not using this as an excuse to give up. But I do intend to be a great husband for someone someday. Time (a LOT of time) will tell if I'm fortunate enough for it to be with her."

You've got a long road to go.

[Zues126]

Yes. I'm not doing well. I'm having tremendous trouble seeing past my own pain because I've never hurt so bad and times like now I don't feel like I can keep going. My thinking is erratic and the only thing I know is not to trust any of my thoughts. I feel betrayed and outcast from my entire family because they act like this is normal and have supported her leaving me, and want to be close with the kids. I feel like the only reason I have to be around anymore is the kids, but frankly I think something is so wrong with me they'd be better off without me anyway.

I understand this wont get my W back. I get that at this stage in the game I don't have time to break down. So I will make it through the day. Hopefully tomorrow I have more strength to make forward progress. Today I just want to survive and not do anything too destructive.

I do have a long way to go.

[Zues126]

Ok. Regrouping again. The above post was not only a lot of self pity, it was manipulative. Like I don't want to hear the truth so ill act so sad I get comfort. At least I see it. Next step is to try to change it. Here goes nothing...

[Zues126]

Thanks to today I have a new 180. No more self pity as manipulation. It's ok to experience difficult emotions, that is reasonable considering the situation. It's ok to share them with a support group to help me get through on occasion. But I know in my marriage I used my bad feelings to manipulate. Like "I'm not feeling good because you are doing ___________", then expecting her to change her behavior. The result was that I was miserable to be around much of the time, pressured her with guilt, etc. Very, very destructive.

Another 180 is to try to feel more appreciative. Though I am scared, lonely, and hurt, I have a LOT to be grateful for. She is a great mother, and committed to me still seeing the children regularly. We are establishing a very cooperative coparenting relationship and a friendly D. Finally, I AM grateful for the gift of time.

To put it another way- if she told me she wanted to work on our M the best thing we could do would be for me to spend some time on my own to 1) become more accountable for my own happiness, and 2) so we could start fresh with healthier ways to interact. Since I'm not ready for step 2 it is really good that I am on my own. It may not be what I wanted, but in my heart I know it is what I need.

I know it will be a long road. I don't know where it will end up. But I've gone down the other road far enough to know it's time for change. Thank you for the inspiration, support, and feedback. It's not always easy but it's easier than more of the same.