Maybell VI

[Maybell]

So I didn't reply to his apology text and then after I put the kids to bed I saw he sent me another one with a song link saying "I don't want you to take this the wrong way but I don't want things to be awkward between us."

The song is something like "I don't want to be broken" and it's about all these people going to counseling.

After the text exchange he also sent me his itinerary, which he hadn't done in a while. And a couple of days ago he sent me the pictures from his trip with the kids. (I have only shared a couple here and there; he sent me several while they were gone and an album of over two hundred.)

I didn't reply to that one either. I wasn't sure how to take it or what message he intended me to get since he didn't want me to get the wrong idea. My SIL said it was ridiculous of him to just not want things to be awkward and that he should feel the pain of missing me -- basically that he's cake-eating. I saw her point. And besides, how am I supposed to respond to something so nebulous?

So he's off on another international trip and I will be dark. And now I have this great resource in my fantastic SIL which is just one more layer in my armor of loving support. Poor thing, she doesn't know what she signed on for giving me this great advice.

[CaliGuy]

I agree with your SIL ..... I know I am new and all but that was my gut feeling as soon as I read it.

I have been Sep since NOV ... I have my S 3 days a week and the nights I dont have him I atleast get the goodnight talk in at 8 ... we have been good at that ... sometimes she will chat as I am chatting with him on speaker .. baby steps .. like so many I hope to learn more and apply to my sitch as so many others here seems to do and have success with

Hang in there .. you have many people including myself pulling for you.

[Maybell]

You all blow my mind.

Labug, you asked me if I was being who I wanted to be in that exchange and I gave you an emotional answer. But I've been over it a few (hundred) times and I've decided, yes, in fact I was being who I wanted to be. I don't want to pretend I'm ok with all this. I was honest in not knowing what on earth is going on and that I think he should be responsible for his relationship with his children. It makes me mad that he got that text and then asked me about it rather than reflecting on what he knows of his children and their situation and taking action. If it were possible to express my frustration less vehemently I would have, but I don't think it was. I AM frustrated, for a number of causes, and I'm tired of sweeping those things under the rug when they are causing my young children pain.

[labug]

You all blow my mind.

Labug, you asked me if I was being who I wanted to be in that exchange and I gave you an emotional answer. But I've been over it a few (hundred) times and I've decided, yes, in fact I was being who I wanted to be. I don't want to pretend I'm ok with all this. I was honest in not knowing what on earth is going on and that I think he should be responsible for his relationship with his children. It makes me mad that he got that text and then asked me about it rather than reflecting on what he knows of his children and their situation and taking action. If it were possible to express my frustration less vehemently I would have, but I don't think it was. I AM frustrated, for a number of causes, and I'm tired of sweeping those things under the rug when they are causing my young children pain.

OK.

But what is your need here? Is it that he spend more time with your kids? If so, schedule a time to have that discussion with him, don't allow your emotions to sabotage your true needs. It sounded like you threw that in in exasperation. Have you had that talk with him before? Not being an apologist for him but, how can he know it's a problem if you don't tell him? You'e been a very capable parent all these years while he's left the cave and then days or weeks later drug home his kill. He's just continuing what he knows. The kids were OK (in his mind) with him only there sporadically, and you were OK doing it all (in his mind), why should that be different now?

He can be responsible for his R with his kids but it seemed that he asked for input because you were physically present with S8, he wasn't. Maybe I misread but again, have a face-to-face, something along the lines of "this is difficult for all of us but mostly our children. I can't run interference for you but I will do what I can to support your ongoing R with them. They need, truly need both of us. How can we best support each other and our kids?"
Then let him talk.
That might not be what you would say but along those lines if that's where you what you need.

Have you had the discussion with him before?

What else is being swept under the rug?

Disclaimer:I want to say this in a general way, because it's not 100% true.

Women have a difficult time talking about their needs in a way that is constructive. We're taught to suppress them and buck up, we don't want to be a bother, we don't want to be seen as needy. My IC told me there's a big difference in having needs and being needy.

So instead of accepting that we have needs and clearly stating them, we hope people will guess them and when they don't we get pissy and P/A and resentful...and the downward spiral starts.

So it takes some work to be able to really know what our needs are and be able to state them in a way that will get them met. Can your IC help you with that?

I also think your interactions with your Mom have got you in a one down position right now, so maybe instead of lashing out at her, you lashed out at H? Just wondering.

Keep you're chin up, you're worth it!

[Maybell]

I so appreciate your wisdom.

Yes, I lashed out at him in total exasperation. I've been defending my decision to stand for the marriage and when he neglects the kids it makes me wonder why. I'm taking grief for it and suffering in my own right for a guy who doesn't even prioritize the kids?

Also I really miss him and my intact, imperfect home, and I really, honestly can not understand why it's broken right now. And I think too I let some expectations creep in.

But you are right about that. And I don't mind anyone standing up for him. I clearly have no perspective but I do feel like whatever drove him away is solvable. And I want to solve it, sooner than later. I want to see him take responsibility for his own well-being to the point that if we can't be together at least I can understand why. My needs and wants, I know, and my only defense is that I honestly care for his well-being.

He DOES know that he needs to contact the kids regularly and I have asked him to plan for it as much as possible, both so they know when to expect him and so that he doesn't miss talking to them or go several days without talking to them. He missed talking to them that night because he was processing pictures from their trip, so it ought to have occurred to him that they hadn't heard from them. There are other ways in which he's let them down this summer that are frustrating and disappointing, so I consider the phone calls kind of a minimal standard.

And it is accurate that my IC has been encouraging me to be a lot more direct with him.

He sent me a text last night after his apology that had a song link in it and said he didn't know why he sent it but consider it gallows humor and he wanted to share it with me. It's called "I Wanna Get Better" and the video shows all these people in a therapists office. He said "I don't want things to be awkward between us." I want to answer (on reflection my SIL is part right -- because of what the song is about). Here's what I'm thinking:

Thank you for the song. I'm not really sure what you're trying to communicate with it, especially since you asked me not to take it the wrong way. I'd love to know, though. I don't want things to be awkward either.

I'd like to add something about it's not reasonable for him to expect me to be warm and ok with being demoted to "just a friend" because I'm not, nor can I be without certain expectations being raised. But I don't know if it's possible to communicate that under the circumstances.

Would love some input.

[Maybell]

Thinking again. Better to say

Thank you for the song. I'm not really sure what you're trying to communicate, especially since you asked me not to take it the wrong way. I'd like to know, though.

And leave it at that. The rest can come out another time.

[Maybell]

So H texted me to plan call with kids and then added "I assume you're still frustrated with me?"

Me: Was just trying to plan my words so they'd be constructive. It's really hard to express myself right now in a way that is honest and constructive.

H: That's okay. Take your time. I understand. I didn't want to push you or anything.

Me: I really don't understand what you were trying to say with that song, especially with the "don't take this the wrong way" caveat. But I'd like to.

H: I don't know what I was trying to say either. I just was listening to the song and thought I'd share with you. It was spur of the moment and not well thought out. Was just trying to bridge the gap a little, that's all.

Me: I appreciate you thinking of me.

H: I want to be friends right now and it hasn't been easy. Sorry it's been so awkward. It is a hard place for me to talk right now though. I don't know where I am right now but I do know that I don't want it to be so hard with things between us.

Me: I am your wife. It is not reasonable for you to expect me to be comfortable with "just friends." I would be happy to rebuild the relationship from the ground up but it is impossible for me to be warm and friendly with you while having no expectations and it is insensitive of you to ask that of me.

H: Yes. I realize a lot of things I say are contradictory and not practical sometimes. I don't mean to be insensitive. But you are right that I have been.

And then it was just whether the kids wanted to talk to him.

So he's not there at all but his song/video choice is still curious. Back to kids & finances till he misses me more, I guess.

Or until we just drift into a divorce. I'm feeling discouraged.

[Maybell]

Grr... There were missed opportunities to validate in there? Not everything I think is so important? But it's true that I won't draw closer under a demotion. Being direct with him may have worked before, when I said I wouldn't be friends while ow was in the picture. But he may have just been playing a card she dealt him.

I don't know if I know what I'm doing.

[mdu]

I don't know if this is the right or wrong thing to advise but just an observation. As I read through your latest posts I keep thinking 'be careful, don't push too hard too fast'

Maybe I'm projecting because that's been one of my biggest mistakes. It's hard not to get all wound up when it seems like there's *some* hope.

A friendship doesn't seem like a bad start. Also, do you think he still needs time to mourn OW? It's awful but seems to often be a significant factor in their ability to reconnect with LBS.

[Maybell]

That's a good observation and worth considering.

My initial thought is something my SIL suggested last night (remembering she's been supportive of rebuilding if possible)... Which is that if I make this comfy separation easy for him he has no reason to consider going back to IC. He has untreated ADD, which he acknowledges, which is likely contributing to our current situation. IC feels strongly this is the case, and the fact he sent that specific song link without a lot of awareness as to why tends to support that, in my view. Whether or not we end up divorced he needs to get treated. He has other relationships to lose than ours.

Second, things have settled out so that he has almost no responsibility at the moment. He has a swank apartment downtown and we're managing the finances such that we're pretty close to breaking even (likely actually breaking even) each month. Things improve even more once I'm employed. So there's no financial pressure on him at all (though I worry a little).

Third, I must protect myself. Others may be able to bear being close friends with an estranged spouse without going bonkers, but I know for sure that I can not. And I'm not going to feed him a false idea of our situation -- that he can dump me and keep me at the same time, which is essentially what he asked for when he moved out -- because I already withstood seven months of trying to rebuild the marriage after I found out about OW. If he wants out, then he is OUT. And he is well aware that it would not be at all difficult for me to have a very good time dating if it should come to that. So he needs to understand that I'm no longer going to lay down and take whatever he wants to dish out like I did before.

I told him before that it was clear he needed time to work through his cr@p and that he could have it, but not forever. This whole "I want to be friends but not return to the marriage" thing feels like cake-eating to me, and an effort to buy time so he can continue the playboy lifestyle. I'm thirteen months out from BD. I'm not exactly done, but I'm done giving him rope, for sure.