Good luck Mat. You seem prepared. I never am: always winged it throughout my life. Got to 180 that as although I'm completely flexible, I also means I bend to others wishes.
M: 57 / EW: 52 T: 21, M: 8 S: 18, S: 15 Bomb: 1 Jun 14 EA Aug 2014 I think PA Feb 2015 possibly sooner
I need to psych myself down. Now I'm thinking - why would she eschew coffee and food suggestions in favor of a drink?? She must be intending for this to be fun right?
Man I'm gonna be in pieces if I down adjust my expectations!
M:37 W:38 No kids Together since 2006, Married since 2010 EA discovered 06/07/2014 W moved out 06/08/2014
Oh boy. Didn't go the way I was planning. I am in pieces. I don't know if I'll be able to give the whole play by play, but I'll make a start.
I went in knowing what to do. I had my strategy, my 180s.
For the time it took us to have the first drink, everything was going well. We talked about a few light things, had a few laughs. Things about common friends, relatable stories from the papers, that sort of thing. All neutral and light. A bit about the house works, otherwise she talked to me for a long time about her work, her usual issues, and I was on top of things, actively listening, validating. I couldn't believe how well it was going. Couldn't wait to come back here and celebrate with you. I was so good at doing the listening that I hadn't been doing during the relationship.
Then she went down and got us a couple more drinks. Conversation was still going, but I had to fish for topics. No big deal. Still easy.
Then, she starts talking about how she told some people. And she told her mom, and her mom's first reaction was to ask how I was doing. We sort of laughed, because it was always a frustration in her that they seemed to like me more than they did her. I sympathised and shared how sorry I was that she didn't offer her support to her first. She says she eventually told her supportive things.
Then her eyes started to well up. She said something like "there's something I'd rather you know now. I've been talking to [friend's name], and she advised I should tell you. I have started seeing OM again".
At that point, all I'm thinking is - what the �uck do I do with this. No relationship talk, no heavy stuff? Am I supposed to make a joke?? So I start with saying "there's nothing I can say to make you feel better or worse, it's your decision". Silence is heavy and oppressive. We're in public. She looks like she's going to break down. Meanwhile I say things that don't really say anything. She's looking more upset.
So I ask her, is there anything I'm saying that's making you upset? And she tells me that the frustration is that I never opened up to her, and that it's still the same now. And that she thought that I would be expecting that.
And the trap was set, all ready for me to step in it.
I tell her that my disappointment is that she had told me that she wanted time on her own, to figure out how to be alone on her own. And I was doing work on my own, on my side. So that's what I thought she was doing. She answered that she hasn't lied to me when we split up, that this was her intention at the start.
So that's it. We're talking about the R. No backing down now.
I don't know how much I can write without breaking down, but I'll try just to help you guys pick it apart if you care to. Even though it just happened I am not sure I have the order right, but I'll try to highlight the salient points.
She said that the thing that made her the most upset was that she made me sad. I replied that I was going to be OK. That of course this isn't what I wanted. But that even my IC was saying that it didn't look like I was in enough of a crisis to do much more meaningful work. She seized on that like a badger. She goes "so what does that tell you? You are so good at doing your research, saying the right things, but you don't express and feel your true feelings.
At that point I said I felt like I needed to share that I have been feeling horrible, but that it doesn't seem fair to open up if she's not willing to acknowledge or be open to the possibility of creating a new relationship.
I made the point that you could throw away an old relationship, create a new one, but you don't have to throw away the partner.
She made some good points herself, e.g. that we both have trouble sharing feelings, so we could never meet in the middle.
I had answers to her points. She felt it was all book stuff, that it was as if I was trying to manipulate her.
She acknowledge that although she didn't believe I loved her while we were in the relationship, that she now recognises that I was expressing love by doing things for her and giving her things, like our parents were doing for us. I agreed, that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and that's why I am learning not to rely on the sincerity of my feelings, but I want to learn how to show love in a more connected way.
We talked about how life was just comfortable. I said that maybe this is why we never addressed our marital troubles as days turned into years. It doesn't mean there was never any potential, just that we didn't do the right things.
I talked about how I am learning and growing so that I could be happy regardless of what happened to us, and that if I simply found a new person I'd be taking the same junk to the new relationship and mess it up just the same...
In defiance of my 180s, I guess I've been arguing with her. But I just can't believe it's smart to validate her feelings about the end of our relationship.
I am sure I am forgetting stuff. As you guys pick this apart, if you have the inclination, I may remember more details.
I've been thinking about emailing her. I need to drive the point home about this whole research thing, like I am handling our relationship like it's a math problem. I know MWD tells us to trust that our spouse heard us. But I think repetition here sends a message, and I can't take the chance that I wasn't crystal clear, and she could use something to refer back to. What do you guys think about the following?
"Thanks so much for hanging out, and for the talk. I know this wasn't easy for you to say these things, but you did the right thing by telling me. You're a strong person, and I take comfort that I never have to doubt that you're sincere and that you don't want to hurt me.
There's one thing that I want to say though. You talk a lot about the whole "research" thing, and to paraphrase, that I intellectualise things and rely on books at the expense of listening to and feeling what's inside of me.
I think I made the point already, but I just want to be clear. In this whole thing, my brain and my heart are connected. Just like a person in distress can go to a wise friend, I have sought out the advice of people who have devoted their lives to learning about how people who face challenges can repair themselves and their relationships. I think they are saints; they could have applied themselves to solving other problems. This "research" saves lives. When I learn about their ideas and what they found by working with other people in my situation, it helps me get through the day and gives me hope for the future.
When I quote from these books, I talk about the things that resonated with my own feelings. I remember these ideas because I felt something when I learned about them. They are the talks I didn't have a chance to have with my parents growing up, that could have made me better able to connect meaningfully with the love of my life.
I acknowledge that sharing feelings is something that was lacking in our relationship. That's bang in line with - you guessed it! - everything I am learning in books and in therapy. Like I said, I'd be willing to open up more to you even now that we are separated. I am getting practice with friends. I just don't think the terms are fair at the moment. That's a genuine feeling mind you - I haven't sought advice on what to do about this in particular. If we get to that point, I'd also like to hear from you how you feel as well.
I hope that you allow for the possibility that none of this has anything to do with manipulation. I am not applying techniques to manipulate your feelings. I don't have the energy to be this calculating; it's better used on working on myself. I'm hanging on, and putting my faith in the future. And the only reason I have faith, and that I am able to find joy, motivation and life energy in everyday life is because I have access to insights and advice that wonderful people have put at my disposal. If I was only listening to my feelings, I would have stayed stuck at the numbness and hopelessness stage.
Anyway. I don't know if you believe I am sincere, but I hope you heard my point. When I calmly talk about what I think and what I've learned, if you listen closely and read between the lines you can also perceive everything I am feeling.
Thanks again for the chat. It meant a lot to me."
M:37 W:38 No kids Together since 2006, Married since 2010 EA discovered 06/07/2014 W moved out 06/08/2014
Mat, I'm sorry that was the direction things went. I hope you're doing ok.
Don't send any emails at this time. Really, really think things through and get more input here before you send anything.
You wrote a lot here and I want to reread it a couple of times before I comment. No matter what, please don't spend any time second guessing yourself. You did the best you could in the moment. Sending hugs...
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
