I simply head to lunch to create a little martial mystery and wham – you guys do a ton of work! I’m so impressed!
Karen, those things that Betsey mentioned as her crazymaking are all mine as well. And you can add the thought of driving him away to bring him back to my list as well. Been there, done that and lost the husband over it.
Because, it works to a point. In the meantime, they’re miserable and we’re unappeasable. I remember the first Sweetest Day after I had our son, H got me a spa package. I cried…because I wanted a necklace and flowers. I had his child, damn it, and I deserved a necklace and flowers. WTF was wrong with me?!?!? In truth, I didn’t want the necklace, the flowers OR the spa package. I wanted quality time with my husband. Makes your head spin, huh? Mine too! And…it made him crazy as well.
Crazymaking is easy to identify but hard to overcome. Sometimes, the things that we do are so justifiable to us at the time that we don’t see the monster for the monster until it is over. I remember the crazymaking trigger for me was Betsey saying that she was going to tell her husband to sell the house because if they weren’t going to live in it together and pay the bills together then there wasn’t any point in having it. I AGREED WITH HER!!! Then I continued to read and she identified the behavior as crazymaking – why? Because she realized that she only wanted to tell him to sell the house because she wanted him to tell her that he didn’t want to sell it. Suddenly, I understood...
Are you familiar with the controlling behaviors list? That might be a good first step. I’d still recommend posting the pros and cons…they might help you to stick with achieving the goals that you posted yesterday. You married this man for a reason Karen – and the only thing that has changed is his behavior. That, my friend, can be changed back with a little patience, effort and zipping of the lips!
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
Wow, I really DON'T want to lose my H. I know I am just acting out of fear. I get freaked out when things go WELL for a while. DDDDUHHH! I guess I am afraid that I will be fooled, the other shoe will drop, I'll get the wool pulled over my eyes, hmmm...what other cliches can I come up with?
I had such a hard time during my childhood. Both of my parents smoked pot and drank back then. My father was very unpredictable, violent, and verbally abusive. I tried SOOO hard to please him. One day this would work, the next day it wouldn't. One day that would work, the next day it wouldn't. He called me a lot of names and was very critical.
My mom never protected us. The S 3 times before FINALLY getting D. He would stalk us when they were S to see if she was w/other guys. (She was). Whenever I would get upset my mom would say, "stop crying! Think of the people that are worse off then you!" (Oh, that helps A LOT-NOT!) Then when I had prob's w/bf, she would say that ALL men are @ssholes, and that they all gawk at other women, and that I need to be happy and bubbly all the time for them to like me. Nonverbally, she taught me to get my self-esteem through sex, and getting men to "pursue" me. She does the same thing-picks out a negative and focuses on that. Then she goes out w/a guy for 2-3 years complaining about him the whole time. Then they break up, and she is upset.
Like Mr. W said to UD-this is what you wanted! So I said to her, "You don't LIKE him, remember? Why are you upset? I don't get it!" And I had no sympathy for her.
Pshaw-the apple doesn't fall far from the tree! But, hopefully, I can pull out some skills and make a pie out of the apple. (NOT an American Pie-ha ha, get it? Well...maybe...)
I have a VERY hard time when things are CALM! Like I said, I feel the need for stimulus, or to make stimulus if there is none.
Where is this controlling behaviors list??
Pros to be married-get to come home to the same lovely man everyday, can snuggle, ML, have fun, have a friend to share w/, can live in a house, can have a family...
Cons-can't always get my way, can't just break up, can't be w/other guys (not that I really want to!), have to WORK on the M and the R, hard to get along sometimes...
I could go on...Today I feel good. Last night went to Pampered chef party w/cousin (finally bought the baking rectangle that I've been wanting forever), went uptown to eat and to a piano bar. Had really good convo. and fun w/her. H went out for a few beers after work, and then came home early. This morn. we chatted before he went to work. I was very +, , affectionate. He's so stinkin' cute! Ok, so this is when I get into trouble: I start thinking about how much I love him, how great some things are about us and him, I open my heart up and start feeling love (even unconditionally!!), I get more emotionally involved, he starts to open up, we get more comfy, he says some nice things, starts initiating and showing that he cares about our R, we laff and have fun...then...
WHAMMO!!!
I get scared, start telling myself that he doesn't care about me or love me (& look for ways to prove it), that he's not what I want, etc.-basically anything to close myself off from him and push him away, then I get upset, make accusations, and PUSH him away!
Yes, fortunately, he still comes back, but as you all know, that doesn't last forever, and eventually he WILL go away! and NO, I really DO NOT want that!!! Then I'd be miserable and feel guilty and once again, have unrequited love which equates to not being lovable. bleh...
So, to STOP the crazymaking... I must be aware of when the urge to c-make is upon me, step back, write/walk/talk myself out of it, etc. I know it is hard to id. the monster when it is right there until after. Must catch him before it is too late!!!
Tonight we are going out separately again-I feel ok with it, not my first choice, but the +++ for me was that I made my OWN plans for Monday, Tuesday, and Friday. (I get so exasperated feeling like I always have to work around HIS schedule. Yes! He can work to-if he wants to see me, I'll see if I can pencil him in! ha ha)
AND it does HELP me to feel more independent and it does HELP me to appreciate him more to do my own things and **as db'ers have told me** NOT give him so much power over my life and how I feel about myself.
I felt a little urge to C-make this morn. but didn't. He has 2 single friends that NEVER date. One was talking about being set up w/a friend of a friend, but chickened out. h asked what he had to lose. mf said his self esteem. (he doesn't have any to lose!) then mf said this other woman he knows likes him and just got rid of her "sex toy." so h is like, go for it! at least you'll get sex! but mf doesn't feel like he can do that. (& h mentioned that guys will hump most anything) My h usually does not talk like this, and he was never like this when he was single!! So, I felt like saying "anything??? what's anything??? am I just anything??? and, if you were single, would you just go out w/someone to boink? No, didn't think so..." but, I just smiled and laffed w/him about the sit. And took it as a compliment that h thinks it is a good idea for his friends to pursue m. If he thought it was that awful, he would say, "don't do it!!! stay away from w!! Don't have an R, just screw around!..." Right?
I'm obsessing about GS cookies in the freezer and thought I better do something useful, so here I am.
Quote: I have a VERY hard time when things are CALM! Like I said, I feel the need for stimulus, or to make stimulus if there is none.
You are a classic crazymaker--welcome to the club!
Now, in order to really pinpoint why you feel you must create drama, why do you think you do this? It took a little delving for me to understand why I did, so just know that "can't deal with calm" isn't the reason.
I got noticed, Karen, I really did. But being around me was pretty tiring. I could not just sit and BE. And if things were going along swimmingly well in my M, I waited for the shoe to drop... or I nudged it along.
I can't tell you how nice it is to not be in a position to create drama. My life is FILLED with it anyway, so why would I choose to live under a constant adrenaline rush?
Looking back, I wonder why this never came up in therapy... because at least one friend that I can remember told me that she prayed for me to be happy during the peaceful times. I thought she was nuts. Now I see that I was.
My Rs with all my family and friends are pretty good. I don't like fights anymore (though I won't back down if one is handed to me on a silver platter and lined with lettuce). I don't enjoy creating conflict and I don't like hurting people I love.
It takes a lot of work to quell this insatiable need. I don't get the urge as often as I did when I indulged myself, but I do get them. The difference now is that I FORCE myself to sleep on it, pray about it and think about it before I take any action.
I can't think of a better example than the one Meredith shared about my desire to announce to Mr. W. that we needed to put the house up for sale. True, carrying a mortgage that I never intended on taking on by myself has been a huge burden.
I don't like it. I don't like all the financial responsibility falling on my shoulders. And yes, periodically I resent the hell out of being where I am. However, NONE of those reasons was the underlying reason, though I would have told Mr. W. they were.
The fact is that the convo would have been a litmus test for our M: is he ever going to come home? Does he miss us? Does he really want to sell? Does he want a D?
Had I pushed that button, I feel fairly certain that Mr. W. would not have gone down to his knees and begged for forgiveness and a means to come back home. In fact, I'm pretty sure he would have told me to call our real estate agent (a friend).
Then what? I'd have gotten a really bad R talk that might not have been indicative of where he hoped to go (as in our M), but because he wouldn't have been ready, gone along with me in listing the house.
I have hundreds (maybe even thousands) more stories on this topic. It makes me literally sick to my stomach now that my diet has cleaned up and I've eliminated that toxic element from my lifestyle.
I really can't believe that person was me!
Now, if I need words of affirmation, I ask my friends, family members and fellow BB posters for them--until I manage to get them from my estranged H. They will have to be enough until that day arrives.
And yes, they DO count when they're from others we like or love or whose opinions matter. Don't tell yourself that they don't...
But words may not be what you want from the crazymaking. What purpose does it serve so we can help you figure out how to get what you want and need without having to create more drama?
Big hugs! And NO STINKING THINKING!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Okay, you’re a crazymaker! I’d say congratulations…but I’ll save those for when you can say you’re a RECOVERING crazymaker
Controlling behavior list is floating around the board somewhere…but I’m going to post it here for you. I think this is something you’ll need to reference often, as I certainly have had to!
Controlling behaviors: Orders Threats Promises Psyching out / mind games Manipulating Blowing up / going off the deep end Physical illness / symptoms Time-out (when misused) Blaming Intimidating Withholding Violence Yelling Going to a higher authority Taking things away Making unilateral decisions Vigilance / stalking / following Being overly sensitive Wild statements Over protective ("for your own good") Giving alcohol or other drugs Making them feel sorry for you Keeping the other person ignorant / uneducated Using "male privilege" (man of the house) Withholding sex / affection Limiting access to items (eg car keys) Monopolizing the time Dominating the conversation Superficially polite / nice Handling someone else's belongings Rationalizing Black-mailing Shaming Apologizing Walking away Sarcasm Pushing buttons Nagging Interrupting Raising your voice Ignoring Using friends Bringing up the past Making demands Looks / stares Whining Using children Changing the subject Lying Isolating Fear Money Getting the last word Badgering Silent treatment Threatening suicide Giving rewards / gifts Giving the third degree Short fuse Flattering Requiring authorization / approval Secret purchases Defensiveness Impatience / hurrying someone Silence Quid pro quo Dismissive sounds (eg "tsk") Contrariness Argumentativeness Repeated correcting / negating Unsolicited advice Sabotaging the car or other items Taking / disconnecting the phone Hiding items that don't belong to you Playing the expert Extended pauses Rhetorical questions Talking down to Inappropriate humor Physical size Talking for someone Giving permission Micromanaging Back seat driving Making fun of
A few of these behaviors are normal…it is when you do them with an ulterior motive that things get bad. Let me know your thoughts…
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
Why do I C-make??? 1. To get attention-as they say about dogs, negative attn. is better than no attn. 2. To get WOA-allow this doesn't work as H stopped reassuring me a loooooongg time ago 3. To make H prove that he loves me by putting up with this 4. I have trouble being happy in peaceful times!!! 5. I don't feel comfy just "being" w/h. I feel the need to entertain or do something in order to keep his attn. 6. Sometimes it feels good to cry and yell. 7. I hope to get h to do what I want, when I want, how I want. 8. I want h to appreciate me (and this works how??) 9. I am afraid that he will leave me so I make it so he will and/or make it so that I am less committed, therefore, leaving before he does. 10. Being really close, intimate, accepting, loving is really really scary to me, so I do it to create distance. 11. I like the "rush" of fighting and making up - though h does NOT "kiss and make up." (So, this isn't working either!)
Sat. was good. H came home from work and we spent some time together. He's been spending a lot of time on the puter. I just went about my own thing and he asked me to come in, gave me a really nice hug (like w/me behind him ya know?) and asked me to sit with him. We are now considering and shopping for road bikes.
He was going out w/his friends, and I was going out w/my friend. Neither of us were meeting them until later. We and fell asleep. I had mentioned eating din. together, but left it at that. Then as I was getting ready he said, "what are you doing?" I said, "i'm gonna get ready, get something to eat, and meet ff later." He then asked if I wanted to do din. together! yah!
Sun. we got up early to look at bike stuff, he played cars w/his friends and I went to outlet mall w/another ff. (Wow, I have lotsa friends again!), came home, i cooked din, we watched a movie. (American Wedding) funny, sick humor. Went to bed, h was tired and just turned over w/o doing any snuggling or ML...(We ALWAYS ml on Sunday...) So, I LET HIM BE! I DID NOT CRY OR WHINE OR TELL HIM HOW DISAPPOINTED I WAS AND THAT I AM AFRAID HE DOESN'T WANT ME!!!
This morn. I consoled him b/c the ground was snow-covered again. Told him I am climbing and that he is welcome to join later for 'ritas.
Ok, I'm holding on too!! I have that roller coaster restraint on too. But wait, if it werent' for me, there would be no roller coaster (or at least much less steep of hills), so maybe I need to put on a straight jacket to contain myself. Do they make chastity belts for the mouth?
WOW It sounds like you had a really great weekend! Good for you!
Quote: I have that roller coaster restraint on too
Where can I pick up one of these? Maybe we can suggest Michelle add these to her line of DB'ing "tools"!
Quote: ...(We ALWAYS ml on Sunday...)
This says pressure to me. Let it go! It seems like its a way to keep tabs, kind of like a constant tempurature check. Oh its Sunday, so does H still like me, find me attractive. Let the wonderful good things that are happening be your guide. If you don't ML on Sunday, but do on Saturday, GREAT! Or Tues or every other third odd day of the lunar eclipse!
Quote: I LET HIM BE! I DID NOT CRY OR WHINE OR TELL HIM HOW DISAPPOINTED I WAS AND THAT I AM AFRAID HE DOESN'T WANT ME!!!
Where is the little clapping icon?? Way to go Karen!
Karen you are doing such a wonderful job at all of this. Keep the good feelings going!
Hi! Thanks for stopping by. I think Meredith is selling the roller coaster restraints!
Last night I climbed some walls-some really hard ones too! My xbf was belaying me and very impressed. H doesn't seem to have a prob. with this (he's such a frickin' pillar of strength!!), and I asked xbf if i was invading his space b/c he was in the club(s) first. He said, no, that he thought I was cool and that h & i would make great additions to the club. (or something to that effect.) i have met x's gf also.
I called h to let him know that we were going to the nearby mexi. restaurant, but he said he was staying home. I said, "ok! I'll see ya later!" Went home, h was on couch all bundled up. I told him he looked like a burrito and that i wanted to go to bed and make a big burrito with him. he said, ok. so we snuggled for a long time and he gave me several squeezes. I told him that I missed him climbing. He said, "why, you have all these other ppl to climb with?" I said, "I know, but I miss having YOU there." I sold all of his gear for him. He wanted to get rid of it.
Today he was shopping around for bikes for me and sent me a few pics. He signed one loveoo! yay! baby steps...baby steps...slowly...gently...easy now, girl!
Having probs w/dizziness again! wtf is wrong w/me? I thought it was caffeine so I quit drinking it, but it is still happening!
Tonight is vball, tomorrow will climb if h goes out, thurs. have bday party for my twin nephews (h is not invited/not going-pppllllbbf on my sis & bil, but, ya know...), fri?, sat. & sun. celebrating FIL's bday. Lots to do & to keep me busy!!
, affectionate. He's so stinkin' cute! Ok, so this is when I get into trouble: I start thinking about how much I love him, how great some things are about us and him, I open my heart up and start feeling love (even unconditionally!!), I get more emotionally involved, he starts to open up, we get more comfy, he says some nice things, starts initiating and showing that he cares about our R, we laff and have fun...then...
and NO, I really DO NOT want that!!! Then I'd be miserable and feel guilty and once again, have unrequited love which equates to not being lovable. bleh...
and fell asleep. I had mentioned eating din. together, but left it at that. Then as I was getting ready he said, "what are you doing?" I said, "i'm gonna get ready, get something to eat, and meet ff later." He then asked if I wanted to do din. together! yah! 
