lost and desperate

[25yearsmlc]

A running theme in your description, though it's still really vague (a few specifics would help a lot, instead of just saying you were a "monster"), is one of negativity.

And you are doing it now to yourself with a hopelessness throughout. We cannot help you if all you do is argue about why our suggestions won't work. Okay so open your mind up to the possibility that we MIGHT be able to help you IF you allow yourself to be helped. That will mean you change the way you think and behave. So that means you don't keep coming up with reasons for NOT changing or following our advice.

Give this/us a chance.

Oh the issues are big and deep. Where shall I begin? We've had an unhealthy marriage for so long I can't really pinpoint the exact issues except to say that I've treated him like a child forever, emasculated him, distrusted his ability to handle pretty much anything without my criticism or correction, been disrespectful, and emotionally beaten him down to where he has nothing left. Nothing. And to make matters worse, I spoke badly about him (every single thing about him) to other people via text and he found them. I did this while he was going through treatment for thyroid cancer last year. Yes. I did that. He's so hurt by my backstabbing and complaining about him that he can't get those words out of his head. Understandably.

Sounds pretty bad. So, why do you think you did all this? And what were thinking at the time, or did you not ever examine your behaviors?
What was your childhood and parents marriage like?


He has said that he dislikes everything about our relationship.

Sounds as if you do too...


That he can't trust me, questions my principles, morals and thinks my promises are empty. He wants to feel appreciated (which I never did), loved (which I never did), emotionally connected with (which I didn't try hard enough to do in a way that would work), like a MAN (which I beat down and to be able to have self respect (which I took from him). These are all things he deserves unquestioningly just simply because he is human. I have truly been a monster.

If you are even half right, then you have a long road ahead of you and you really MUST NOT trust only your views on this. When your coach or we suggest something, try NOT to come up with a reason for why it won't work in "your case" b/c as unique as we all are, there ARE patterns in these situations. You need to accept that we might offer you something.

Stop wallowing in hopelessness. You have a child who is going to be watching you and this is NOT a trait you want to pass onto her.

Last year when I made promises I promised to be more loving and to be more affectionate and to have sex more. It lasted a month, maybe. It isn't that my promises were empty but I was looking for HIM to change and meet me half way. HE needed more from me to make changes and I see that now.

Usually the LBSer comes here thinking they have to take the first step.

I tell them this: "Yes, And you have to take the 2nd step, and the third, and the next 3054 steps - b/c THEY ARE NOT HERE TRYING TO SAVE THE MARRIAGE; You are..."

and that is the truth.


If I'd read DB last year things would be different but I didn't and they aren't. I know now my path. I know what to do if things get rocky.

Such as? Can you list 2-3 things you would DO/SAY differently if you had the chance?



I know now how he feels when I reject him sexually. I know now how he feels when I emasculate him, even inadvertently. I know now how much I've done to him and how much I've stepped on him. I now have a path, goals, a process, a plan.

Sounds great. So why not begin? Why so hopeless?

Last year I had none of those things, I was just flying by the seat of my pants hoping he'd see changes in me and when he didn't, I just said, "Oh well, there's only so much I can do alone in this". Now I know differently.

You must drop the scorecard (whereby you measured what HE had done to keep things 'even' with you.) You cannot pick that scorecard back up again either. Ever.

The problem with scorecards is that they "keep a record of wrongs", which is detrimental to happy marriages. AND the other thing is that our spouses have their own scorecards and on theirs, we are NOT ahead.

Our vows often say "from this day forward" and I think those are genius words! That is how you have to take this, from this day forward. Drop the past and be here now. Drop the list of grievances that are used to berate and negate.

Don't borrow trouble from tomorrow either. That's stinking thinking and it's negative and wasteful and downright harmful...and miserable to be around.


I know what you mean by not talking about my changes but I'm at a loss with this one because he doesn't want to see my changes. He's happy I'm making changes so the divorce will be easier.

NOT making the changes will make the divorce easier, on him, b/c it'll serve as a reminder to him of why he's leaving you. Talking about the changes never helps and you will have to trust us on that.

Talk is cheap AND it tends to mean that your "changes" are merely tactics to get him back; not sincere genuine authentic changes you make for YOU so you can become the woman you were meant to become.

These are changes anyone would make if they had a come to Jesus moment like you have had. No need to tell him. Telling him undermines the very claims you are making about the changes being for you.


That's not what I want. I'm making these changes for ME so I can be a better person to HIM and for our relationship.

Then make them. I don't understand what you mean by "not what I want". You don't want the divorce to be easy on him?

Then BE the changed woman he's wanted for so long. Let him SEE & BELIEVE that you have finally become the woman he wanted/needed. That will make anyone second guess their choice to leave, especially when there are kids.

TALKING about it will not help you - and it may well hurt your cause.

I know the road will be hard and jagged and super rocky but I am willing to walk it because WE are worth it. If I don't ask if he's noticed he'll go a year or two without seeing them and I'm not exaggerating.

Stop the negative projections. IF you DO ask him if he noticed, what then? You think he will THEN notice what he had not before?

You think he'll slap his forehead and say "You are right! FINALLY I can come home!"??

I think it's much MUCH more likely he'll say "Oh, she's doing her tactical superficial GAME again...I'm not buying it again".

If you really did the DB work we do here, it will show and saying nothing about it - would help you convince him FAR MORE than talking ever will.

You already talked about your changes before, so why repeat failed behaviors?

My changes don't make him want to stay so how are they going to make him want to stay if I don't bring them up?

OMG it's the opposite! If the changes don't make him want to stay ---then pointing them out will make him want to run.

And How would you know if the changes won't "make him stay"? I Know one thing, NOTHING you do will MAKE him do/feel anything. Those are his choices. All you can do is change YOU. Stop trying to control who/what you cannot control, like HIM or his reactions. Let go of that this minute. It's an illusion anyhow, but it's a dangerous illusion.

Okay so You think a month of "change" is enough? It's not. You need a month of contrasting new behaviors, to undermine every year of past negatives.

So that means if you have always been a "monster" in the marriage the whole 12 years, it will take a YEAR of new changes to get him to buy into the changes being real or lasting.

You have NOT done that, so how can you so certainly negatively predict how you'll fail (unless you get to do this your way)? Your way is the OPPOSITE of what we are telling you -but You seem to think your failed way is mandatory. I just think it's another same old thing, and I don't get that. Stop resisting a program you have not tried b/c you have NOT Done real DB work yet. Not that I know of.


I agree, I need to make them permanent and lasting - my #1 goal above all else. Nothing matters to me more.

He works ridiculous hours so if he moves out, I will quite literally not see him unless it is to exchange our daughter. A "hi, how'd things go?" or a "she has karate on Friday at 5 pm" isn't going to be enough for him to see ANYTHING let alone permanent changes I'm making.

NOT TRUE. We have done it so WE know. Short interchanges can be lengthened and will be, IN TIME< if he learns he can relax around you and not flee. If you don't pressure him with more arguments about how you have changed and he can stay now and blah blah blah then maybe he'll take a breath and feel safe enough to have coffee with you. But not if you're going to harangue him.

So how to be noticed for a change in 3 minutes? You can look great and be happy which will shock him enough as it is. You can give him 1-2 authentic compliments when you see him, which will be noticed. You can text him a thank you and send him a cute picture of your d or something positive she said or did, when he's not around. THOse things alone will be noticed. Plus your d will speak about the fun things you have been doing and how nice you are and playful and artsy, etc.

You can thank him for awakening in you the real you. The "Unafraid to be wrong" you, the optimistic you, the spiritual you, the beautiful healthier you. And you can tell him the truth -- which is that you are grateful he woke you up, that he has done you a favor by getting you to shake off these negative chains you have been wearing too long. You can be happy and loving and lovable and when those things are happening, they will radiate and yes they will be seen.

Pointing them out is so unnecessary as to almost negate them. Certainly in this scenario pointing the changes out is so self serving that is exactly how they'll look and since the changes are for YOU and NOT to get him back, telling him makes zero sense. Do you get that?



And let's say he does recognize changes, he will just say, "that's great" and move on. He won't relate it back to himself or our relationship.

Man, you need to change the negative tape in your brain's cassette recorder. Too much mind reading and ALL negative.

You have it set up so no matter what you do, he'll never come home. So give up.

Oh you don't want to give up? Then don't come up with reasons NOT to try this program, before you even begin. I thought you had a plan. Is it to keep saying "no this won't work for ME b/c MY situation is the only one in the world like this"...?? That mindset does not help you.

If he sees changes in the mother of his only child, at some point he's going to wonder if "NOW" things could work out. That is at least a possibility and it's the only way I can imagine it happening.



I'm just so upset about all this and the ache I feel in my heart of regret, sorrow, loss, desperation, fear, anger, frustration. You're right, Ben, he has no reason to trust that I will make the changes and for them to stick. Except that I now have a path. I didn't have that last year.


You keep saying "now I have a path" but it sounds as if your path is to TELL HIM IN WORDS - and we are telling you that won't work.

What is this "new path" and are you on it now?


I can now own my role in all of this like an adult as opposed to the petulant child I've been all these years ("I did that because of YOU..."). Why should he trust me other than because I want him to? I don't have the answer to that. I wish I did.


Because this time I mean it. What a sorry excuse for a reason. I know that. But I don't have endless months for this because once he's gone, he'll witness NO changes. Once he's gone that's it.

Obviously the sooner you make the changes the better. But even after you are apart, you'll surely continue to grow. Do not revert to the old you, and tell yourself you may as well "b/c after all he didn't come home." Besides, I have 2 family members who divorced and remarried their former spouses so yes, it happens.

You will never be glad to have been a monster. Change now.

"Consistent change + sufficient time = change he can believe in."

^^^ That is the 'math' of it.

You will never regret handling yourself with dignity and strength and honor. You need to start that. Don't lose your temper at all. Not in front of him.

If you know the negatives and images he has of you which justify his leaving, then you also know how to contrast and contradict and undermine those images.


To show him that his data about you is no longer valid.

Contrast the images he has of you that are bad, with new positives. If you used to dress too casually, then begin to Dress up. You berated him, now you will sincerely compliment him, do NOT berate him or anyone for anything that isn't life threatening. Life is too short.

* Applaud loudly for the 1% of positives he does.

* Lose the scorecard and never bring up past grievances. Let them go.

* Live FROM this day forward" which is what you'd have to do, to stay married.

* No past grievances get thrown out in a fight or piled on, or hung over our spouse's head.

* Let the inner feeling of contentment, liking ourselves, trusting that our future is bright no matter what others do, radiate from within.

No long term marriage stays together and happy without a CHUNK of forgiveness from at least one party. Learn to forgive and practice it on yourself.

As for your d, stop assuming/projecting the worst. That can be a self fulfilling prophecy.

And if the marriage was as terrible as you say it was, then it's not something she needs in her life either.

She should not learn to treat a man like crap and have no respect for him, to backstab him even while he's ill, to emasculate him while he faces cancer.

That's what you say you did/do, so how can you argue that her NOT seeing that will "destroy" her? What she's dealing with now could destroy her too. Sounds as if she has a terrible model for marriage and perhaps it hurts her interactions socially if this is what she has witnessed all her life.

Your h may find a kind loving woman for himself, and your d seeing him in a healthy relationship is probably what he's thinking/hoping would be good for her and for him.

Your goal is to show him he can have that healthy r with YOU, so start treating him with respect and admiration and tenderness

-- and yes you can do that without overly pursuing him.

What do you think?