Dealing with WAW Part 3

[pilot]

Thank you again for the very detailed response. I will go through and reply with the best of my ability and as honestly as I can.

2 things....

First - Pilot, for you specifically...

I see the whole compliment issue for you as a BIG red flag. I really do.

I just want to mention that it IS withholding of you to measure so much. (Meaning in part, the whole "she has to do/say it first" habit you have).

If I recall correctly you also were not one to say "ILY" very much, whereas your wife and her family were much more verbally expressive. So for you to keep being quiet on those issues, is disturbing. It was a big need of hers that would "cost" you so little, for you to resist changing that is a red flag to me. Truly.

You are correct that in our relationship, I never really said ILY very much. I am sure I did during the 'honeymoon' period, as we often joking debate over who really said it first. And that does go back to my upbringing. We just never said it much in my family, so it never seemed 'natural' or 'normal'. I always thought I had shown it in different ways, but if WOA is her LL, and I expressed it in another language, then yea, I get that it really did not matter or get through as much. Remember, I had 2 BDs...more or less. Back in September was the real BD. It was her father who told me that one of her complaints was the lack of ILYs. So I worked on it. At first, I said it too much, as her dad told me to back off them a bit. After that, I found a nice groove, and it began to feel natural, and nice to me. I found the right balance at that point during our first reconciliation. But more on that R later....

It does seem, well, selfish. OF course I could be wrong, but the word "Stubborn" and the word "Selfish" CAN Overlap. And stubbornness usually means "resistance" to something, like how you resisted uttering "ILY's" more often or even just once a day, or an authentic specific compliment seemed to put you at a disadvantage b/c you fear it'll be seen as pursuing. I think it'll be a 180 for you so she can't argue that you never say a nice word to her...this is such an easy way to do a 180 on something noticeable, I don't get your hesitation.

YES yes I understand your claim that you don't want to be seen as pursuing. But you are being oddly rigid about a suggestion generically listed in some guidelines by Sandi. It's not a law or "Rule" that prohibits all forms of pursuit that we are discussing. You imply that for you to be viewed as pursuing is some mortal sin; it's NOT.

By stubborn I mean I get set in my ways and my patterns. When I go to a restaurant, I usually order the same things. I wear the same clothing styles over and over. I find a comfort zone and stick to it. I make a decision and stick to it. That is how I am stubborn. If you can extrapolate selfishness from that, well, it was never by design. I am by far the least selfish person I know of. A statement nearly everyone who knows me will attest to. I freely give up time, money, an anything I have to offer to others, especially friends and family. I would argue I give love as well, but as i have learned from 5LL, I may not have been giving the right love. Again, not by design or selfishness, but not knowing any better.

In conclusion, I'd like you to consider (and post here if you can - but you don't have to),

the role you played in the marital problems. I'm unclear about what you believe your role was.

What is it you believe you erred by doing/not doing?

What would you do differently if you had it all to do over again?

And If your wife did have an affair, EA or PA, WHY would she?

What would SHE SAY were her reasons/justifications?

The main roles I see I played in the demise of our relationship would be as follows.

Lack of verbal affection. We have discussed this heavily. I should have said ILY continuously, and not let that slack off. I should have COMPLIMENTED her appearance and her efforts to look nice with WOA instead of in my own way.

As our financial situation began to decline, I took a position which turned out to be wrong, that we would be able to weather the storm. I did not anticipate the economic downturn in my industry (real estate) lasting as long as it did. Throw the BP spill on top and it kind of put the nail in my coffin so to speak. I know security, including financial, is important to a woman, especially a SAHM. In hindsight, I should have ventured into a new industry sooner while capital was still available.

I should have made more time for 'date nights', especially after we moved away from family and our typical 'babysitters'.

I should have addressed her concerns more directly instead of with my usual 'coping' manner of making a joke, etc. Example, when we were looking at new houses in our new town to buy, we were looking in the 400-600k range. In this town, you really could not buy much. The houses in the neighborhoods she wanted were 800-1mil. As we got frustrated at not finding what we wanted in our price range, I would joke 'well, if we did not have the airplane we could have the house you wanted.' (at this point she did not like the airplane, and we did not use it as much as before) That stemmed from the fact I was unable to sell the plane for tax reasons/consequences. Or of she would come to me and say she needed money for something, I would say 'me too'. It is not that I was being intentionally dismissive, it just was my way of masking my sometimes panic at the financial situation, and I did not want to get her nervous...something she would do. hindsight I was wrong in that approach.

When we met, I was on top of the world. I exuded confidence, success, and I was just all around fun to be around. I was a truly happy person. Now, start adding up an economic collapse in my industry, toppled off with a BP spill which if it had come 4 weeks later our current financial position would be vastly different (lost sale and partnership in a large beachfront hotel/resort/commercial complex. Throw in 2 unsuccessful and arduous Congressional campaigns, being mauled by a pitbull, and moving to a new town where I knew no one and had no close friends to hang out with, I was not my previous happy confident person. Life had taken a toll on me and every time I thought I was getting back on my feet, life was kicking me right back on my butt. In hindsight, not sure how I could do anything different as far as being truly 'happy' although i always wore a smile in public and at home the best I could.

Those are some of the larger bullet points.

As for why she would have an A? Well, it could be any one of a dozen reasons from her dissatisfaction in our M to a character flaw. From what her father told me, her EA with the OM began because he was telling her how pretty she was, he was happy and fun to be around, and things just grew from there. As I mentioned earlier, our original BD was in September. The next BD I count is the day I first caught her with OM. Shortly before our S began, she confessed she never gave me or our M a chance after the Sept. BD. So the first reconciliation really was not a true reconciliation. She probably moved into an A because in her mind she was moving on.

More generically now, let's talk about

[b] when a LBSer becomes or almost becomes, a WAS.

I had that nearly happen to me.

But lest we forget, we came here first as LBSers. WE came here and we all said to our hypothetical (or real) spouses,

that "Love is a choice!!" and it certainly is, at least partly that.

So We have to apply that same mantra to ourselves, too.

We've been demanding that our WASs' not leave us or our families, b/c "THEY are unhappy" --we implored them to stay and work on the marriage.

Remember?

But wait, now WE don't "feel like it"???

Anyone see a tiny streak of hypocrisy there? Cause I see a big streak of it.

I do not see any hypocrisy in taking a step back, just as the WAS did, and re evaluating the M and who the person I am married to has become. Especially if I am working on changes in myself. I see the person she has become and it is not attractive to me. Maybe it is a front, maybe it is not real, maybe I am not seeing her as she really is. Which is why I am still around doing what I can to save my M. The point of DB is to work on yourself. During that time, if your spouse comes back around, you can at that point reevaluate your relationship and decide if it is still something you want to save. Remember, I am only 50% responsible for my marriage falling apart. I can theoretically fix everything on my side, and still have 50% broken. I am not saying I WILL become a WAS, I am just saying right now I do not have a burning desire to be with my W at this moment.

So we either apply the same standard to ourselves that we've been insisting our spouses live by,

or we STFU and never ever complain about them leaving us b/c we are now, in essence, leaving them.

To apply the same standard would be to require them to in essence go through the same self realization process we go through during the DB process. Which we know is not possible since we do not control their actions.


I think I got to most of your questions. I hope I was able to convey my thoughts clearly and as accurately as possible via typing.

Thank you again for your time, patience, and understanding.