Trying to find my way

[Maybell]

Cheers for that!!!!

[labug]

Meghan, first of all, I'm sorry you find yourself here, but I'm glad you found your way here. I saw your post on Maybell's thread and thought I'd stop by.

I just read your first post, most of it. It was painful for me to read.

Would you agree that marriage should be a reciprocal R? It's never 50/50 but it balances out. What are you getting from this R? Why do you want to save this marriage?

I ask most people that question, it was asked of me. Don't let it scare you but really think about it.

[labug]

I just read Hopeful Still's post, those points are what made your first post so difficult for me to read.

You had and emotionally abusive R before, did you get help and counseling after that? (you might have addressed this before-you can give me the Reader's Digest version)

[Meghan]

Hi all - H has left for his trip.

I helped him pack a few things this morning and was cheerful through the whole thing. He came out at one point and asked if he should take his wedding ring or not - it's now so loose that it falls off when he wears it and he said he didn't want to lose it. I told him to do whatever made him most comfortable. He said that if he know what that was he wouldn't have asked, but he wound up leaving it here.

He got the call that the cab was here, and got his things together. I stood in front of him, and he told me to have fun and not to wreck the apartment with wild parties - I said there was no danger of that. I wished him safe travel and a good trip, and then we just stood there and looked at each other awkwardly. After a bit he said that he should go, and I said yes and that I'd lock up. I didn't cry until the door was shut.

I've had some moments this morning where I've been second guessing myself. I worry that he will interpret no hug or kiss as more of me not giving him the physical intimacy that he wants. But then, it seems like everything I do is wrong - if I do hug or kiss him I'm meeting my own needs or trying to save the relationship, but if I don't I'm not meeting his needs and possibly not trying to make this work. I have no idea what to do with any of this, but I hate what it does to me.

[Heart14]

Meghan, sounds like it was a hard morning. You did great! The wedding ring question would've thrown me. I hope having the place to yourself helps you detach and enjoy life without the constant turmoil.

[Meghan]

Reading through your situation, I'm really not surprised that you have not felt like having S with your H. He has no job, didn't help around the house as he should have (especially given he has no job !), is unable to make friends, goes to bed hours after you do (taking the bed while you,sleep on a futon) and has managed to gain weight even though he has literally all day to keep in shape. Gee, I wouldn't want to ML to someone like that either!

HS - thank you for writing this. I'm so inclined to take this all on myself that I really need this reminder sometimes (and with it written down, maybe I can stop asking my friends for it). The inclination is always to feel like I could and should have done more to address his concerns, but there really was a lot going on in there.

So, here's a H that most folks would look at and completely understand your diminishing respect and lack of desire for, and he has you convinced that the problem in your M is YOU!? Do you want your H back as he is today? A man with no job, no friends, is no help and has no ambition? I'd take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself if that's what you REALLY want or if you're just afraid to be alone.

I've been asking myself this a good bit recently. This is not what I want. I've felt worried, anxious, stressed out, and resentful for a fairly long time now, and I don't want to go back to that. This is not what I expected my life or our marriage to look like - I understand that bad and unexpected things happen, but this is basic responsibility and the practical elements of daily life we're talking about. I don't feel like he adds to the security of my life, though, and I want someone who will be more of a partner and willing to do the things that are necessarily to get along in the world, even if they're hard.

I've done a lot of thinking, and have a lot more to do, and being afraid to be alone is definitely in there. The most obvious things I get out of the relationship are someone who cares for me, makes me laugh, and is concerned for my well-being. There are certainly things that he's done for me, and I don't want to downplay them - he helps with my work, talks me down from my anxiety, and generally does make my days brighter. I'm not always sure that it's worth the trade, though.

It's been heartening to see some changes in H. recently, especially losing weight and applying for jobs. His focus is largely on him, though. Most of this seems to have come from his recent crisis of realising that he feels that he doesn't have a lot of worth. I want him to be happy and I'm pleased he's taking steps, but it's frustrating that it feels like he was unwilling to make these same changes to improve my life, too, and that they took four years to get to.

I think the best way to win your H back is to get some self respect and insist that the only way that you would take HIM back is if he got his act together. Right now, as odd as it sounds, your H has lost respect for you because no matter how low he goes, you still supplicate to him. Why? If you want your H to fight for you, and improve for you, and you want to FEEL like ML to him, then you must become someone worthy of that.

It certainly doesn't feel like I have a whole lot of self-respect right now. I have no good reason for that. I just let him do what he wants. Over the years, I've accepted his excuses and his narrative about why things are the way they are, and I've tried as best I can to care for and accommodate him all the while.

One of my big things right now is improving myself - there are a lot of areas that I could use some work in, and so I'm focusing on those as much as I can right now to bolster my self-respect and self-worth to a point where hopefully I won't be such a doormat. I've been feeling resentful for awhile, but it's been hard for me to talk with H. about, and even harder for me to set any boundaries or expectations of him. I think part of that is just expecting that these are things that he should be doing anyway as a functional adult, but I need to be able to do these things.

You are educated, have a job, do most of the house work, and I'm sure are a great person. Why are you settling? I'll bet dollars to donuts that instead of crying and pursuing and enticing him to want to have S with you- if you turned the tables and suddenly valued yourself, and asked him how soon he could move out, he'd be begging for a second chance from you! That's when you tell him he can't have you until he grows up and becomes a man that a woman would want....

This is something I've been talking through a bit with friends and family, too. When we were dating, he seemed to have it together. Now, here we are, and there are times that it does feel like I've settled. We've been stuck in largely the same holding pattern for four years now and very little has changed. I'm not quite at the point where I think I'm ready to tell him to move out - partly out of fear that he's currently so angry and frustrated that he'd just take me up on it and use it as another validation for his behaviour - but I'm keeping it in mind because the current situation won't work long-term (and really hasn't ever worked). I'm definitely interested in starting to get to a place where I value myself more and expect more of him, though. Maybe I'll ask my IC about setting boundaries and being more assertive in my next session.

[Meghan]

Meghan, first of all, I'm sorry you find yourself here, but I'm glad you found your way here. I saw your post on Maybell's thread and thought I'd stop by.

I just read your first post, most of it. It was painful for me to read.

Would you agree that marriage should be a reciprocal R? It's never 50/50 but it balances out. What are you getting from this R? Why do you want to save this marriage?

I ask most people that question, it was asked of me. Don't let it scare you but really think about it.

Thanks for stopping by!

I've been asking myself this question, and I've been asked it by friends and family at different points, too.

I do think marriage should be reciprocal. If you'd asked me a year ago how I thought we were doing, I probably would have said we were okay. H. did more of the emotional caretaking and I did more of the practical and financial, which probably isn't great, but it didn't feel excessively off. I think I've been lying to myself for awhile - there were plenty of days that I was annoyed or frustrated by the balance of the relationship.

In terms of what I get out of it, here's what I've got. I get companionship. There is always someone here to bounce ideas off, talk to about my concerns, or help me with a problem. I really have appreciated his willingness to help me deal with work issues and to talk me down when the anxiety is acting up. He's really very good about that. On top of that, he's smart and funny and good to talk to, and he brightens my day. He's has been good about helping out when things get really busy or stressful, such as running out to the grocery store to pick up frozen dinners when I'm running late. He's also been wonderful about cuddling and touching me after a long day when we cuddle on the couch, which I love.

At this point, I sometimes wonder what it is that I'm trying to save. I love these things about him so much, but I still feel like I bear the bulk of the responsibility for financial matters, and I also still do a good bit of work around the apartment. In other words, the balance is off and he hasn't really shown a lot of initiative in terms of fixing it (in fact, he seems to actively deny that it was off in MC, even when I acknowledge that he did more of the emotional caretaking than I did). Plus, given how things have been recently, it's getting harder and harder to see the guy I fell in love with.

[Meghan]

Meghan, sounds like it was a hard morning. You did great! The wedding ring question would've thrown me. I hope having the place to yourself helps you detach and enjoy life without the constant turmoil.

Thanks, Heart. I really wasn't expecting the ring question - he hasn't been wearing it, but I suppose it's not unexpected that it would come up.

I'm still feeling all kinds of turmoil, but I'm hoping that settles down soon. I really do think some time apart will be a good thing for both of us if I can just settle into it a bit more.

[Meghan]

I just read Hopeful Still's post, those points are what made your first post so difficult for me to read.

You had and emotionally abusive R before, did you get help and counseling after that? (you might have addressed this before-you can give me the Reader's Digest version)

I was in IC during that time and have been since then, but now that you mention it, I'm not sure it's been adequately addressed - we focused more on getting me out of that relationship and then on my anxiety, without a lot of work on not letting the cycle repeat itself. H. certainly seemed like a better option than my ex, but I wonder if that earlier relationship has left me not as able to set boundaries or avoid getting walked all over because I'm now so conflict averse and so inclined to blame myself and to think that I'm the problem.

I've always been a people pleaser. I want everyone to like me, I hate conflict, and I almost never rock the boat. These are not good things for asserting your needs and not getting treated like a doormat, though.

Looking back, I suspect that I've just tried to push my concerns aside, or to brush any needs that might be difficult to ask him to meet aside. I've asked for things I've needed, but often in the context of other discussions or arguments, sometimes started by him, but also sometimes started when I've reached a point of immense frustration. I don't feel that I argue very well - I always feel like I wind up apologizing in an argument, even if it was my concern on the table.

[Meghan]

Freaking out a bit now that not hugging or kissing him goodbye has left him with the impression that I just want to be his friend and not his wife and that I don't want to salvage the relationship because I don't care enough to initiate a hug or kiss.

Breathe, breathe, breathe...

Must trust the collective wisdom of the wonderful forum people over my own internal craziness.

I can't control how he feels.

Going to do some dishes to calm down.