WAW separation begins

[Wonka]

Ray,

I'd like to chime in on the forgiveness idea here. It is always an ongoing process. Not one where you say, "I forgive you" then hook up your little fingers and pinky swear on it!

In my case, it took me about 9 years for true forgiveness to sink in every cell within my body. My actions, words, and thoughts are now all aligned. I think that vibe shows in my latest interactions with Ms. Wonka. Sure, I've slipped and anger/resentment reared its ugly head at times whenever my thoughts strayed out in the "betrayed" territory.

Keep working at the forgiveness thing. It means you've truly let go of their hurtful actions toward you and begin to look at their good qualities instead of their mistakes. I've only begun to recall Ms. Wonka in a positive light and it shows up in my countenance.

All of this was accomplished through very hard work at being mindful of my thoughts and emotions. I had to take charge of the steering wheel --thoughts---and direct them toward a place that was positive and peaceful. Pretty tough, but it can be done!

[rayzzz]

Thanks Thornton...patience...the process is like reverse mach speed but I get it.

I am mad! Mad! I seem to have gotten to the angry stage of "why did you WAW...blah blah?!?!"
I know detach, GAL but I assume this is normal in how the stages of all this grief and rejected love play out. just gripping so I will process what I can and put an abnormal amount of effort in being "happy cheery dbing Rayzzz" when its kid swapping time. I am getting good at keeping the darkness boundaries and usually just catch a hello in the transition. Going out now to punch a punching bag...or five!

[oad]

I hear ya rayzzzz....im at the mad phase as well...so I go work out...but dam its hard not to be mad, especially when you know they are not happy and struggling with this....its like wake up!!!!!

[Meghan]

I find myself angry somewhat regularly these days. Forgiveness is hard, particularly when H. doesn't seem to have any inkling that he played a role in our issues.

The hardest part for me is forgiving myself, though, and I think this keeps me sad and stuck rather than actively moving forward. I see all too clearly my role in our issues. I'm blaming myself almost all the time because I have indeed hurt H. very badly over the years, which is how we got to this point. I feel like if things don't get better I'm not sure that I'd be able to forgive myself.

As you're working on forgiving your spouse, how do you also go about forgiving yourself?

[GoatGal]

rayzzz,

I know for myself the emotions run up and down, from self-pity, to fear for my future and the future of my animals, to fury at him, anger at myself for not knowing more, for not doing things differently, for allowing myself to be taken advantage of in so many ways.

How could I not have realized this????

Lately my concern is, I don't think he's ever going to be what I need him to be.
This whole experience has made me examine our marriage and I see how, more from my end than his, how it was less than I deserved.


In order for me to be happy in this marriage, he would have to grow and change a great deal.

I'm not sure he'll want to do this, and even if he does, I'm not sure he'll be able to pull it off long-term.

I think about a future with a man who I no longer trust, who is quite a bit older with some health issues, who was able to treat me so terribly...

A man who refused to give me what I needed although I asked and asked until I just gave up. I have changed, for the better.

I am more aware of my faults, what makes me difficult to live with, what qualities in myself I value most, and which parts of myself I would like to keep improving.

I just don't see him putting in the work to do what's needed to pull this marriage out of the nosedive it's in...

We are no longer starting from whatever stagnant rut we were in pre-adultery.
Now there is all that to overcome before we can reach something approaching a valuable partnership; there is SO much work to be done.

I am willing to do my part, but he's got to do his, and then we'd have to do ours together.

I do know that I am no longer willing to put up with the emotional and physical neglect I felt from him, and to be manipulated so he could keep secrets from me.

I want MORE now.

I don't want the "good old H" back, I don't want the MCL/Betraying H in my life AT ALL.
I need a new and very-much-improved H for this to have any chance at all.

rayzzz, if it makes you feel any better, today I spent a good hour trash talking H out loud to myself!

---GGG

[rayzzz]

Rayzzz DB Relationship solution! Why don't all of us throw our hats into the db dating pool here on the forum and match ourselves with each other...y'know the people that actually give a darn about marriage! Wellllll ta da.....I am throwing two hats in!! ...ok end scene of frustration in the db process....

Thanks for chiming in Oad, Maghan, GG: now to each of you..

I hear ya rayzzzz....im at the mad phase as well...so I go work out...but dam its hard not to be mad, especially when you know they are not happy and struggling with this....its like wake up!!!!!

Oad that is the frustration! I am mad that there is another way for our WAW...together in the new DR way...but this falls on deaf ears fml

I find myself angry somewhat regularly these days. Forgiveness is hard, particularly when H. doesn't seem to have any inkling that he played a role in our issues.

Meghan i think its the forgiving of a WAS's ignorance that adds another layer to the veneer of forgiving the hurt caused in the present M crisis...it's kind of like
"HEY you just ran over our pet dog!" and the WAS says "yeah...but I was going to the store" ((shrug of indifference)) *sigh*

The hardest part for me is forgiving myself, though, and I think this keeps me sad and stuck rather than actively moving forward. I see all too clearly my role in our issues. I'm blaming myself almost all the time because I have indeed hurt H. very badly over the years, which is how we got to this point. I feel like if things don't get better I'm not sure that I'd be able to forgive myself.

As you're working on forgiving your spouse, how do you also go about forgiving yourself?

That's a hard one and I struggle with both ...but the second one about forgiving ourselves is the harder one IMHO
I need to throw this weight of guilt off me all the time. While I absolutely own and completely grieve all the terrible things I did to my WAW I know that if I don't get myself off the hook (that is the super high fishing rod dangling in the air) I will never be able to get on the ground and get to work on what I need to do to save my M.

I am more aware of my faults, what makes me difficult to live with, what qualities in myself I value most, and which parts of myself I would like to keep improving.

GG, sounds like you are becoming more and more a dynamite dbing babe! Add the ukulele and hello! All this self awareness is so deeply humbling and empowering isn't it...its not just like going from coal to a diamond in the rough but an expertly-cut, sparkly diamond necklace ...that hopefully our WAH wants to wear...

I am willing to do my part, but he's got to do his, and then we'd have to do ours together.

I do know that I am no longer willing to put up with the emotional and physical neglect I felt from him, and to be manipulated so he could keep secrets from me.

I want MORE now.

I don't want the "good old H" back, I don't want the MCL/Betraying H in my life AT ALL.
I need a new and very-much-improved H for this to have any chance at all.

Its great that there isn't even an apology for wanting more. In our absence from the R real growth and self discovery have happened so expectations are rightly higher. Its the bar of a brand new M cause the old one wasn't working at all.

rayzzz, if it makes you feel any better, today I spent a good hour trash talking H out loud to myself!

I'm not doing cartwheels but I am so glad you have helped encourage me in the psychotherapy approach known as "garbage can speaking".
What I think GG? Is we need to cowrite a song called "You don't have to be the grumps to me" focusing on WAS as well as us in the dance of anger. We will share the royalties and give 10% to the Divorcebuster cause she has helped us all so much! and We really really like her Michelle Weirner Davis!