Trying to find my way

[Meghan]

True - I'll admit to being pretty resistant to change at the best of times, so change now feels especially threatening. I've been seeing the trip and the fact that he perceives it as a time to clarify his thinking and make a decision about the R as the be all and end all, which gives it a whole lot of power.

[nit84]

Hi Meghan,

I know the possibility of your H leaving is very troubling to you.

You must remember until you have all the facts surrounding this possibility you have no idea what might happen so worrying about it is pointless right now.

Continue to detach, GAL and do your 180's.

Your H is on his own journey at the moment you must let him complete it. You can't control what he does so try to keep a PMA and let go of the bad thoughts. I know it is hard but it is a must if you want to have a chance at R.

It took me many months to be able to learn this. I still am not totally there but it does get better.

Patience is your friend.


Hang in there!!

[Meghan]

Journaling: I've been thinking about H.'s somewhat contradictory statements again tonight.

Statement One: I should be making efforts to go ahead and fix things (because this is my fault and he shouldn't have to put in the effort because he already did).

Statement Two: the things that he knows he wants (hugs, kisses, head scratches, back rubs, sex, and so on) are not things that he wants from me right now because he's angry with me and they feel inauthentic

I've been wondering how on earth do I navigate H. saying they he wants change but but won't accept change. It seems impossible. Trying to meet statement one is a direct violation of his wishes in statement two, and judging by how he seems to be acting right now (moody and quiet) is probably a very bad idea.

I still feel like I need to be doing things for him. I still want to do things that he says he's missed out on, like scratch his head while we watch TV, kiss him every night before bed, and run his back while he works. But statement two says this is a no go.

If they key is really to focus on me and making my life better, it strikes me that I could perhaps deal with issues that he's had with me, so he starts to feel less like the caretaker of a needy person who relies on him for everything.

I could - work more on managing my anxiety
- quit bringing him my work and life problems
- spend more time out with friends so he has space
- stop worrying so overtly about money
- be pleasant and happy about things that I would normally worry about
- work on getting more content with my life (GAL and all that)
- figure out ways to lighten my work load so I have more time for other things and so work isn't as much of an overwhelming priority

If I can do this, could it possibly open him up to trusting me in other ways? Could it show enough change that he might trust me to start doing things for him down the line?

[pilot]

I've been wondering how on earth do I navigate H. saying they he wants change but but won't accept change. It seems impossible.

Most likely he is afraid any change you make will not be permanent. He has to see the changes last over a period of time before he buys into the 'new' you.

[Meghan]

Most likely he is afraid any change you make will not be permanent. He has to see the changes last over a period of time before he buys into the 'new' you.

I absolutely agree with this, and he's said as much to me, too. I know he's afraid of backsliding, and I'm sure that this is why he's so adamant about seeing any changes as authentic and focused on his happiness - if they're not, they won't stick and we'll wind up in this terrible place again. I'm sure that he's terrified right now, even if he hides it almost all of the time.

Problem is, he can't see any changes as authentic and so I don't feel I can do the things he really wants. I've touched him - usually on the shoulder - every day since counseling, but that's hardly the intimate actions he was missing. In the absence of any other intimacy, the touches feel more like a friend than a lover. I also listen better, tell him he looks great, ask questions about what he's working on when he's talking about it to me, and try to validate and support where I can. I did that for what I thought were two good weeks between our last MC sessions, but he said in the last session that nothing had changed, which felt crushing.

I just don't know where else to start when he's so angry at me that he doesn't feel enough of an emotional connection to be comfortable with me doing much more than these small things. I know small changes done consistently can yield significant results. They just feels so, so small and ineffective right now.

I keep coming back to the idea of backing off and working on me, as you've suggested. I do feel some concern that working on me won't be seen as any kind of a change. One of his biggest complaints has been that I'm too focused on myself and my needs, so focusing on me could potentially be seen as more of the same. But, since his complaint was largely about his feelings of having to care for me, I suppose some changes that help me to take better care of myself so he doesn't have to could still work.

[Meghan]

One thing I’ve been considering is seeing a sex therapist (perhaps while H. is away on his vacation, but not really sure about timing or even actually going yet).


My reasoning (or possible lack thereof):

- it shows effort in getting these problems dealt with in such a way that I can learn how to manage them better in the future – new BC helped, as did more help around the house and getting in a better financial position, but I think it might be worth exploring all of the possible reasons with a professional in case there was something else going on

- it's something that maybe I should be looking into anyway, in order to better understand myself

- it’s a 180, since H. thinks that I didn’t take his concerns seriously or put in enough effort to fix things

- if I can do this on my own, it’s also something that he doesn’t have to participate in, which is good since he’s resentful of doing the work and feels like he’s already put in way more than his fair share of the effort

- the therapist I’m looking at also does couples counseling and has a solution based approach – I’m starting to feel a bit frustrated with our current counseling, since we seem to spend more time talking about feelings (with me crying as a result, and getting defensive, and other not great things) and wouldn’t mind seeing about some other options


My concerns:

- that this could be read as pursuing, even if we're not having sex right now

- that this will be seen as another example of me doing something that’s self-focused because I’m scared of losing him

- that this is more “too little, too late” (although I’m still confused about why he talked about the issues with me again back in March if he didn’t want me to try again to fix them)

- that the therapy could bring up the same old resentments (or maybe even new ones) on my end, which could make things worse when I’m trying really hard to focus on him and his needs rather than me and mine

- that at some point he’ll be expected to come to the therapy, thereby making him do more work and possibly having to hear about my resentments yet again, which really seems to mess things up

- that he doesn't like therapy (I don't know if this is true, but he doesn't seem to be thrilled about the current MC) and more will just throw fuel on the fire


I was going to add a concern that the therapy could further demonstrate how awful I’ve been to H., giving me more to blame myself for, but this could actually be a good thing if it helps me to better empathize with his perspective.

I haven’t seen anything about this as a possible approach on any of the boards, so thoughts are appreciated, as always.

[Ben2010]

Meghan,
Did you even try any of the stuff that I suggested to you? Im not telling you that its a 100% guarantee to work, but if your H is not feeling like he even wants to touch you right now, Im nearly positive that will have an effect.

I ran it by my brother last night too. He agreed. It may not be the case that you walk around in a thong or naked and he immediately jumps on you, but it will bring about a desire for sure. I would say that a couple instances of this and you should see some kind of change.

I know you think it is pursuit, but it really isnt. It isnt you asking him if he wants to have sex. Thats not what Im telling you to do. All it really is doing is putting the idea in his mind. When he tests the waters and makes some sort of advance, whether it be slapping your ass or making a comment, you need to be flirty and let him know that its ok and that you are open to it.

If you look at it, its still him initiating, not you. Its a 180 for you because you are gonna be excited to have sex with him.

Take my advice or leave it. The way I look at it, you have nothing to lose by trying it. You can give him a positive experience before he goes on the trip and make him excited to come back. Im telling you this from a guys perspective who is pretty close to the same age as your H. I know it would work on me or any of the guys that I know. To me this seems like a no brainer. Have some confidence in yourself, you know your H wants to have sex with you or you wouldnt even be in this position. I dont care what others are saying on here about the DBing portion of this, do it and see what happens.

[CS000]

Meghan,

I understand why you want to see a sex therapist but I completely agree with Ben2010. Just let him see you looking hot in yoga pants or something thing similar. It's just planting the idea in his mind. Just like dating, you are being flirty and attractive. I think some times its the simplest things that work than over analyzing it... Just my 2 cents.

[pilot]

Meghan,

I understand why you want to see a sex therapist but I completely agree with Ben2010. Just let him see you looking hot in yoga pants or something thing similar. It's just planting the idea in his mind. Just like dating, you are being flirty and attractive. I think some times its the simplest things that work than over analyzing it... Just my 2 cents.

Agree. Go to bed in lingere or something like that. He is a guy. His mind thinks about sex every 12 seconds. Even if he acts cold, he will be thinking of you and looking at you

[Ben2010]

Meghan,
Here is a quote from another guy in the SSM thread:

Its not too hard to stoke the fires without actually making love.

We men are visual creatures. Be eye candy. Its that simple (at least for most of us)

Lounge around the house in lingerie instead of sweats or anything baggy and unflattering.

Be a tease and flash him. Bend over with locked knees. See if you can distract him with upskirt/down blouse shots.

Dont wear underwear, and make sure he realizes that - but without telling him. If he comments, just give him one of those looks you women are so good at giving and let him enjoy the view.

And whenever he approaches, you playfully shoot him down telling him there is a time and place for everything and continue teasing. LOVE your role in teasing him, enjoy the ego boost of his oogling, you are the object of his desire - embrace it!

You will drive him nuts!

And when its finally go time, he will have all this pent up sexual energy to unleash and you will both be smiling in the end

I would agree with all of this except the part about you shooting him down. Make him "commit" to sex with you by "chasing" you a bit playfully. Dont shoot him down at all though. Maybe even do something like semi-violently push him back on the couch or bed and undo his pants and use your mouth for a minute and then climb on top of him. You doing things like this will plant the idea in his mind that you WANT to do it and not just to fix the situation. You have to trust us on this one. Be confident, sexy and flirty a bit without pursuit.

Sex can be a great healing/bonding experience. And make-up sex is on a whole different level. Im not saying that it will solve all of your problems here, but it could calm the storm alot.

When that works and your H goes on the trip, let me know. I have some more ideas for you