living with WAW who hasn't walked yet (5)

[nit84]

Good luck tonight Zew.

[zew]

Just had a strange exchange with W.

I went to the store to buy dog food. W calls me up and gives me he11 for not telling her that I left.
I said, "I didn't know you gave a crap."

She said, "It's a courtesy. I always tell you when I'm going out. Like last night, I told you I was going out."

I was beside myself. Yes, last night she told me she was going out, with posse. Now she went either to pick up someone or meet OM, but she had the courtesy to tell me she was going. Courtesy.

But it occurs to me now, that she is so convinced that we are done, that the going out part is normal; I guess I'm supposed to fully accept that now. So in her view, telling me she's leaving the house is a courtesy.

Why did this shock me? I have to chew on this one a bit.

[sandi2]

Don't you sometime just want to give a Ray Donovan answer?

[zew]

Warning - I'm getting all existential again.

So as it happens, W did not go out with posse Saturday night. She stopped by to say hello, then she went to OM2's house. (He was the one night stand one week after OM1 and before OM3 a week after that.) She slept in the guest room when she came home that night. Last night, she slept in our bed again, and again she tossed and turned and sobbed in her sleep. She is conflicted, and yet, not really.

[So this is why the "courtesy" thing went up my butt. Yes, she had the "courtesy" to tell me she was going out. But everything else was a complete lie.]

I plan two weeks of vacation in about 2 weeks. At first, I wondered if kids would come with me, given that W plans not to. (she's "working") Now she has declared that the kids are coming with me. I was suspicious of her motives.

I now know that W and OM2 are planning a major f***fest while I am away with the kids.

Here's where my mind is, and frankly, it's been here for a while. I am not going to do anything to jeopardize having kids on upcoming vacation. I don't need W calling me in for kidnapping while I'm away with kids.

I plan to use that vacation to absolutely make peace with myself, then file.

I do not want a D, and since D shouldn't be used as a tactic, one might ask why then, would I be the one to initiate it. I really can't tolerate an open M and I need more.

We know two couples that do this, essentially because they couldn't afford to live apart so they stayed married in the same house. In one case it's the H, in the other it's the W who are "promiscuous" while the other spouse leads what appears to us in each case to be a meaningless SSM. Yes, they are with their kids, and they didn't take the financial hit, but they never really reconciled. I know I need more than that.

I've now consulted with two attorneys. My stuff is all ready. D will be very costly, and devastating to W and kids lifestyle, unless of course W finds some income/husband quickly. When I file, it will not be tactical. It will be full speed ahead, with full intent.

W says "Zew is playing a game now. That's ok, we've been playing a game for years." That's her mindset, whether I am supposed to believe it or not. The fact that I haven't filed and want to reconcile is "a game". She thinks I'm deluded to not know that we're done, so it must be a game.

I don't think she'll ever file on her own, which is good because it gives me time and bad because I can't leave the heavy lifting of D to her. Her goal is to eat cake until she is financially able to leave. And I believe she'd prefer that I file, because that just fits her narrative so nicely. As for the narrative, I don't care what anyone thinks but my kids. D13 already asks why W is out all the time, so she'll figure it out.

I have to assure myself that I wouldn't be filing for any of those reasons. What still bothers me a bit is that I'm not leaving to anything specific, other than the promise of starting over, however financially ruined. I want to assure myself that I'm not just running away prematurely out of anger or pride.

My alternative, of course, it to patiently wait - "marathon". I do have about 13 months. It just seems so passive. How long can I stand to have a great full time life with my kids, but having my W suck the life out of me. Should I move on more aggressively before filing? Really, I think I'd like to stabilize post-D before thinking about anything. W will be an emotional and financial mess and the kids will need a lot of my attention.

This is the great question we all have, I guess, is does this wayward thing ever break? I have seen no change at all in the last 6 months, other than the names of the OM changing. So while she may not know who "he" is yet, she certainly seems convinced that it's not me.

And then I wonder how much I am hanging on out of a sense of duty. I meant my vows. My word is worth something. What is the best thing for my kids? W on the other hand, W has lied to me for years about her spending problem, and she has lost all integrity, turned to worst people for advice and made horrible decisions (at least by my values). Why do I keep trying to save her? Or is she realizing her true self and not in need of saving? Maybe she's finally growing up and rejecting me as what she sees as a father figure. Why do I keep rationalizing bad behavior?

I have no doubt that there are women out there who hold at least a few core values and are comfortable with themselves, that I could have a very satisfying relationship with. W is so far from that right now, and speeding off in the wrong direction.

So this is how I will be spending the next 4 weeks. I'm close, and by then I think I'll be there.

Feel free to tell me where I have this wrong.

[zew]

Looking for some input here:

Today, W seems to be at the point of wanting to focus on her career, so she can get some cash to be able to afford to live without me. While I am away on vacation with kids, she plans to talk to a L about filing for D, and to a financial planner.

And by focus on career, she seems, at least temporarily, to want to take her focus off OM.

So there's an opportunity at this very point in time where she isn't singularly focused on men, or looking for them to rescue her from her situation. She wants to do that on her own. I think that is great progress.

I've been doing LRT for months now. I've been very helpful around the house, spending lots of time with kids, but at the same time, I'm giving her lots and lots of space, which means there has been very little communication, save for the few sessions of MC we did in May/early June.

What I fear is that my W has interpreted LRT as total disinterest in her, or fixing the M.

Although I have clearly expressed my desire to reconcile and do MC, I had stipulated that there should be no OM in the picture if MC was to be effective. The three sessions we did were enlightening, I think, but with OM in the picture at the time, she really wasn't into it. Given her vacation, then mine, we haven't anything further scheduled.

Of course, I was hoping she would get to a low point, come to the realization that OM aren't the answer, and then maybe want to do something about the M. She may have come to the realization about OM, but seems unconvinced about my commitment.

She said this to a friend:

He emotionally checked out a long time ago. If he really and truly wanted to get back together with me, he would be making more of an effort. The effort he's made is just sticking a band-aid on a gaping hole. Not to say that I want to get back together with him, but he sure isn't making me want to give this a try.

So in spite of 180's etc, which she has noticed, I am clearly not making the right effort that makes her want to try.

My inclination is to have this talk with her, to see if I can figure anything out:

- I'm sorry we're at this point; I accept my responsibility for my part of it.
- I don't want a D but will not stop you if that's the path you choose
- I do want to reconcile and am fully committed to working on the issues, including my own that brought us to this point
- I cannot accept an open M
- We each have decisions to make as to how we proceed from here.

I had planned to say this to her next week as I left out on vacation, giving her a couple of weeks of empty house to think. I wonder if I shouldn't try to have a talk with her sooner, given that she has rid herself of OM (for today).

Am I being too reactive?

Does she really interpret LRT as disinterest? Do I explain that I've been giving her space to work through her feelings (She asked for "space" back in January.) I sure wouldn't want her going through with a D because she thought I was disinterested. Is it possible that she doesn't know where I stand?

Given that we're both talking (but not with each other) about D do I have anything to lose?

[nit84]

Zew,

Same thing your W said to a friend is kinda what my W said directly to me.

MY W: People asked me did you ever say I Love You, please don't go, let's work on this but no you never did any of that. The thing you said was this will financially ruin you.

Me: I did ask to work on things for the 2 months before I moved out, I said I love you and all that. Do you want to know why I haven't said it since? I continued to say I told you last June this will be emotionally devastating and financially ruining.

My W: The 1st time you said Loved me was after the hearing last Monday and after asking me if I was having an A. You said it is ok I still love you we can work it out. This was after a year

Me: I said I did say I love you and wanted to work things out that the A was not a deal breaker but OM had to out of the picture.

My W: well, you just live your existence in there(pointing to the spare room) and I will live mine here(pointing towards our Bedroom).

I am pondering the same course of action as you, I am not sure it is helpful or not though. I believe my W knows my feelings so pounding it into her would be pressure in my mind.

If I had any advice it is to stay patient and if you feel you need to still communicate this to your W then that is your choice to do so. But make sure you are prepared for any outcome of this choice.


She probably knows your feelings and it just confused as we all know WAS can be. My W chose not to allow me to tell her why I haven't done certain things that people asked if I did. Looking back on the this conversation W and I two days ago I am glad W didn't let me tell her things because I was not fully prepared to explain in a way that wouldn't have been needy or clingy.

Hang in there!!

[sandi2]

What I fear is that my W has interpreted LRT as total disinterest in her, or fixing the M.

(Slap!!!!)

I can't believe you just said that, zew.

Although I have clearly expressed my desire to reconcile and do MC, I had stipulated that there should be no OM in the picture if MC was to be effective. The three sessions we did were enlightening, I think, but with OM in the picture at the time, she really wasn't into it.

Is there an "if, and or but" coming?

She said this to a friend:
Quote:
He emotionally checked out a long time ago. If he really and truly wanted to get back together with me, he would be making more of an effort. The effort he's made is just sticking a band-aid on a gaping hole. Not to say that I want to get back together with him, but he sure isn't making me want to give this a try.

So suddenly she's making sense to you and you're buying her BS?

So in spite of 180's etc, which she has noticed, I am clearly not making the right effort that makes her want to try.

Having your "talk" with her to repeat the same old - same old is not going to put the "want to" in her, either.

She doesn't need a motivational speech (not that yours was motivational), but she needs heart surgery.

Why are you being tempted to fall back into old stuff that didn't work the first time around?

You are still looking for a response from her, and she still isn't responding....so you start back with being tempted to tell her all this old stuff again. She doesn't care! You can say it a zillion times, and it will still not cause the response in her you want.

I know you have to do what you think is best, but I still say as long as her life continues going on the very same way, she isn't going to change her mind. She has suffered no loss. At least, not the kind that matters to her. She still has everything she would have if she was being faithful, unless it's a better R with you. But she doesn't consider that as a loss.

Here's what I see in men. They wait too long in deciding to end things, and they linger around and keep hoping she'll change her mind. After he can stand no more and is finally ready to end it and move on with his life, he does what he should have done in the beginning. That's what you're doing. You are going to continue to give her this nice comfy lifestyle, where she gets the best of both worlds for 13 more months......hoping she'll change her mind. But it will be [u]after[/u you D her that it will start to take affect.

[zew]

Thanks, Sandi, especially for the slap.

I know all this has been said before, and I know repeating it is not worth anything.

I just can't believe W thinks I'm not making an effort. Again Sandi, you are correct. I have heard such utter nonsense from her and the posse over the last 6 months. I don't know why I give any of it a second thought.

If you look 3 posts back at #2466597, I'm more in the mindset of 1 more month rather than 13. Why? Because I agree with you that nothing is missing in her life that she cares about, and so nothing will change. It is not good use of my time.

Also, I can't risk the 13. I need room for something to try, then fail, with room to spare. That's a more effective use of my time.

If anything is going to happen, it can happen with real stakes on the table. She will determine if she really doesn't care if I'm gone. If she cares, she'll make a move. If nothing happens, I get my time back.

[sandi2]

Okay, good. I thought I had read all your posts, but must have missed that one.

I agree with you about using your time better. If you are thinking of S, have you considered telling her you think each of you should be able to date others? I know how you feel about M and the vows, and I respect you for it. You don't have to actually date anyone, if you don't want to, but you could just put it out there to her. As I recall, she didn't like the thought of you seeing anyone else (even though she's had more than one A). Sometimes, jealousy can cause a person to see what others see.

Now I'm sure plenty of people will find fault with that thinking, and I'm certainly not trying to push you toward anything you don't want. I'm just suggesting you think about it. Her just knowing you would be "available" to date might stir up some old feelings, IDK. If it did, it may be a good sign.....or not. Some women don't want their H's and don't anyone else to have him either. But so far, she's had you staying out of the dating arena...while she plays around. Why shouldn't she see how it feels to watch her S leave and wonder if he's meeting someone else?

[zew]

Ok, I see your dating for jealousy angle.

I've thought a little about S, and I don't see the point in my case. Because she can't afford to establish her own residence, we will be living together until we decide to sell the house, or until she gets it in a D settlement. I'm not going to pay for a house and an apartment. So in that case, S to me just looks like full permission to do what she's already doing.

Also, I don't see where S ends, and I have a timeline.
OM3 is S from his W for several years now I think, because there a millions on the line and nobody wants to lose.
[hmmm... consider looking up OM3's W. ]

So I guess I just don't get S. You're in or you're out, I think. I've suggested to W that we not stay together for kids but maybe actively try to make R work for a year then re-evaluate whether we should D. But to passively S for a period to see if absence makes the heart grow fonder doesn't really appeal to me.

So, dating. I know W doesn't like it when I GAL and just tell her "I'm going out to dinner tonight with friends." Don't know if she still cares - I'll find out next Tuesday night. I know she figures that no sex with her must be driving me nuts by now, and she may figure I am already straying, especially since I know she has. I still don't really see S as a motivator.