"Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick"

[GoatGal]

Me: Just curious---any thoughts on how many WAS stay gone if there is no OP involved?

Not that it matters much, I just wonder about my H. He is not running "to" someone or something, he's just running away...


Cadet:

"A lot

Just dont make me define the length of TIME involved cause that is unknown.

Some of it might involve where his wounding came from in early childhood.

Another words if he is acting like a five year old, how long does it take him to grow up."

I figured this was probably the case.
My H has incredible childhood wounds he's been avoiding his whole life.
It's come to the point where he's either got to face them, or live the rest of his life trying to suppress them even more---and it's not working for him.

As for acting like a five-year-old, I've seen and heard that little boy over the last few years.
H has spoken in a high, whiney voice, putting his fingers in his ears/hands over his ears... chanting/repeating things to drown me out.
Just like a little kid. And there is no adult discussion to be had.

It's kind of frightening.

So how long will it take?

Who knows?

How long will I hang around?

Probably not long enough.

I need to see a real glimmer of hope.

If I were 30, it'd be different.

But as it is, I've given myself until Feb 2016, which is when he can finalize the divorce with or without me.
If he does push it through at that late date, then I'm done.

I will have put up with almost four years of 60-year-old childish behavior, and enough is enough already.

I think he knows this too. If not, he will. Some day.

--GG

[Maybell]

Clarifying... A lot of WAS stay gone WITHOUT OP?

Thanks!

[GoatGal]

Maybell,

I guess that's true. Or they finally come around so late that the LBS has finally thrown in the towel.

You'd think that if there is an OP, that would be an incentive for spouses to really pursue their separation/divorce.

But being alone...?

I can't imagine they're thrilled and happy to be off on their own when there is nothing to distract them.
When it comes down to it, if there is no OP, and no real promise of the great love affair they thought WE were holding them back from ever finding, things have got to look sort of bleak. You'd think so, anyway.

Everything I've read suggests that men HATE being alone, generally.

Makes you wonder why they think we're so horrible that being lonely is an improvement...

--GG

[artsy]

I think Cadet was referring to the question as: how many WASs stay gone, instead of immediately coming home after OP is out of the picture.

In other words, they may come home long after OP.

-hence his next reference to the length of time it may take.

[Cadet]

How long will I hang around?

Probably not long enough.Agreed

I need to see a real glimmer of hope.

If I were 30, it'd be different.

But as it is, I've given myself until Feb 2016, which is when he can finalize the divorce with or without me.

Not sure I agree with this.

Have you ever read anything by Admiral Stockdale?

In a business book by James C. Collins called Good to Great, Collins writes about a conversation he had with Stockdale regarding his coping strategy during his period in the Vietnamese POW camp.

I never lost faith in the end of the story, I never doubted not only that I would get out, but also that I would prevail in the end and turn the experience into the defining event of my life, which, in retrospect, I would not trade."

When Collins asked who didn't make it out of Vietnam, Stockdale replied:

Oh, that's easy, the optimists. Oh, they were the ones who said, 'We're going to be out by Christmas.' And Christmas would come, and Christmas would go. Then they'd say, 'We're going to be out by Easter.' And Easter would come, and Easter would go. And then Thanksgiving, and then it would be Christmas again. And they died of a broken heart."

Stockdale then added:

This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be."

Anyways food for thought

[Cadet]

I think Cadet was referring to the question as: how many WASs stay gone, instead of immediately coming home after OP is out of the picture.

In other words, they may come home long after OP.

-hence his next reference to the length of time it may take.

YES ^^^^

[GoatGal]

Let me make sure I have this right.

So Cadet was referencing a possible time frame after OP is out of the picture.

I see the problem was with my original question.

I was wondering how many WAS/MLC go, stay gone, divorce, whatever, even if there NEVER IS AN OP?
-------------------------------------
In my case, it's a marvelous blend of porn addiction, OW, MLC...intimacy avoidance...

But in H's case, OW was DONE by the time I found out, back in early September 2013.

He had no intention of leaving, or divorce at that point. He went to great lengths to hide his infidelity from me.
It was only after weeks of crisis behavior from both of us that he came to the point of filing.

He is out of the house now because I asked him to leave when he served me in early Feb 2014.
He was contributing to what might have turned into an emotional breakdown on my end by his weird, callous, and cold behavior in the face of my pain and grief.

He never "moved out", his placement is temporary--even long term---he's just got his work clothes and toiletries.

Again, I'm not looking to put this into a neat box, I just know women who have had Hs who had the classic MLC, but there wasn't anyone else involved.

They finally got lonely, realized the grass wasn't going to be greener, started missing what they had. And they asked to come home.
The shortest I heard was the H who lived for 5 months on his own after a few months of an on-line EA with an old high school flame on the other side of the continent.

I was just wondering about this.


---GG

[GoatGal]

How long will I hang around?

Probably not long enough. Agreed

I need to see a real glimmer of hope.

If I were 30, it'd be different.

But as it is, I've given myself until Feb 2016, which is when he can finalize the divorce with or without me.

Not sure I agree with this. ^^^

I'm all for focusing on what I want and not giving up hope, and conducting myself "as if" this is the outcome I will get. Shaping it in my own mind and in the world.

The truth is, I don't think I'm going to be one of those who will keep standing after he's finalized a divorce.
If he's that convinced that divorce is what he wants, I am not going to waste any more time waiting for him to change his mind. Which he may well never do.

I have too many other things I'd like to do in life besides hanging around here watching him "be single", GALing and PMAing, all "for me".

If it's "for me", then I'm going to take all that good stuff and do it where it's going to move me forward, not keep me stuck in the past.
I will want to move away, start a new life, and that would make it difficult to re-kindle any type of relationship with him.

Frankly, I've seen a side of him that is so disturbing that I don't know if I can ever "un-see" it.

There is a tremendous amount of work that he would need to do to save this marriage, and the fact remains that he may never want to do that.
I could potentially waste five more years waiting for something that is not ever going to happen.

Have you ever read anything by Admiral Stockdale?
This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be."

I agree with this mindset. And day-to-day, that's how I'm framing it.

It's not so much about "giving up hope" as it is maybe deciding one day down the road that I've had enough of hoping for something I might never get, when I could be living a full--but different---life instead.

I don't need H to make me happy. I never did.
I would like things to turn around; I've always loved him, it seems such a waste.

But part of detaching is understanding that I'll be OK, I'll be happy, with or without him.

And it seems the harsh reality is that it may well be "without", because it's not within my control.

The only control I have is to say when it's over--for ME.

I should say that I will not hang it up based on the date 2/16, but only if he goes ahead and pushes the divorce through.
Then I will get the best settlement I can and move on.

That is part of the power that I feel I have...I will move on then and I will be happy. That's my choice, in the face of all the choices he's made that did not consider me or my well-being at all.

In the end, it's up to me.


---GG

[Cadet]

I think you are starting to "get it".

The thing about waiting is that you should not be "waiting" even right now.
You should be moving forward.
Living your life "as if", he is never coming back.
Figuring out what that(life) is going to look like.

Cause here is the paradox too, if we get stuck doing the above,
then they might get stuck too.

Does that make sense?

[GoatGal]

Yes, Cadet, it makes complete sense.

It's scary.

I'm finally detaching... really feeling it--of course, there has been no recent drama!
(I'll report back IF something occurs to prove I'm wrong about being detached )

And really detaching is really letting go of any outcome.
Which is letting go of him, of our life past/present/future.

I didn't think I was "waiting"... but in a sense I guess I am.
I am sitting tight and DBing my butt off.

And yes, there IS this timeline in my head.
I know the date when he can be rid of me whether I like it or not.

--------------------------------------------------

I fear I will end up one of those who is no longer around if/when H decides he wants to try to be a husband to me.

What that "fear" is...I'm not sure.

Maybe that I will become the WAW at that point.
And the way I feel lately, that could happen.

"Too little, too late".
I can see saying that if it ever comes to pass that he wants to be back in my life.
--------------------------------------

I feel I have grown greatly through this and now I see I want so much more than what I had.
I want more than he was ever able to give me, perhaps more than he can ever give, to me or anyone.

(Sheesh. Now I sound like I'M having a MLC!!!)

I'm just rambling now, thinking out loud.

I do know that at some point I will call it quits; there is more to life than---
here's where I get stuck
----I wanted to say:
"Waiting for him to make up his mind"...
but that's not right, is it?

More to life than "standing/paving the way/leaving the door open"
------------------------------------------

I know I'm doing it "for me" but if he were no longer living... I would be able to take him out of the equation entirely.
I would be behaving much the same way as I'm doing now if I were a widow, but I would also be making logistical changes with regard to my home, finances, animals, and future.

I would eventually close the door on the past in every way except the memories.

I wonder if other LBS have the thought that it would have been so much "easier" to accept if we had been widowed.

Not that being widowed is easy. It's just a different kind of pain.
A pain of great loss, but one without the pain of betrayal.

We would never have had to deal with the grief of seeing the person we love hurt us over and over again.
To hear them say they never loved us, and watch them drop a grenade into our lives with so little concern for our welfare.

I could have lived the rest of my life happily thinking he was the man I believed him to be.


This sounds terrible, but it's true.

(Bring on the haters.... it's just a thought.. and it's how I feel today.)
---------------------------------------------

So for creating my future without him in it, right now I can do that, but only emotionally.
That will have to do.
After a divorce is final, I will do it physically. I will no longer have a choice.

So I get it.
I "move on".
I get in gear to move, to change my life, to write the remaining chapters of my without him.

The problem is, if I PHYSICALLY do that, there is no turning back, because it means I will leave everything I care for, not just him, but this whole reality we've created.

To be "solo" and self-sufficient, I will have to relocate my body, and re-home most of my animals.
It's the only way.
There's no coming back from that decision.

If I have to make that choice (due to divorce) I will not WANT to come back.

I'll want to never look back at it again; it will no longer be an option because he will have removed that option for me.
It will be a painful reality.

Running this place is a two person job.
Neither he nor I can really do it solo.

I'm doing a better job than he would simply because he works long hours with a long commute.
It's not something I can do alone forever, nor do I want to.

So I am physically remaining in place because of that.

However, emotionally, I am definitely moving on.

Ugh....just thinking.

Thanks. (I think )

--GG