First post, completely lost

[watto14]

Tonight I went out with some new friends, I had a great night, lots of laughing, dancing and terrible singing! I'm not a big drinker, and I think I had one too many, I got a little sad towards the end, watching other couples, and 6 he single people my age, and started to cry.i took myself outside, my friend came with me and I tried not to think negatively, all 8 could think was where was h, what was he doing, who was he with, I know they're destructive thoughts but they just kept coming like a freight train, and I keep thinking that on Monday, it will be his birthday and it's the first time in 10 years I haven't woken up next to him on his birthday, I don't know how to survive through this, I am missing him more than I thought possible, I want to talk to him, tell him the silly stuff, I want to curl up next to him and have him hold my hand. The pain is literally physical right now.

[25yearsmlc]

Watto

Slow down the swirling vortex of negativity. It's NOT helping you or the situation.

Tell us about your kids, and how they are dealing with things. You know, they are watching YOU and YOU MUST MODEL FOR THEM,

what a woman of strength and dignity does in the face of adversity. Don't collapse or fall apart. Get a grip and hold on.

Also, take in the long posts GG and I have put out here. TAKE IT IN and process it.

If you just skim over them, you'll stay stuck. There are useful tips in there for you.

I thought I'd posted the "newbie rules" (which are guidelines only) but now I can't find them.

So I'll post them again. Notice one suggestion to NOT do as a GAL activity, is going to bars.

The bar scene is not very helpful to LBS's for a long time. Drinking can be fun and relaxing but it sure can lead us to moping or crying jags or doing something we later regret. In this scenario you only feel worse.

Live and learn.

Here are those "rules" and they were assembled by Sandi but they are based on the author of the DB books, Michele Weiner Davis (Aka MWD)

Good luck and READ THIS AGAIN and again when you start to spiral.

You must learn to visualize the STOP SIGN when you feel yourself begin to spin...and remind yourself that your kids are watching.

Did you look up the Amy Cuddy or Shawn Achor TED Videos on Youtube yet?

Please do so....

you have to take the advice and do the program - for any of this to help you.

(I laminated a reduced version of this and carried it with me for weeks...helps to keep you on track).

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with, (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake," b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patience on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). Sometimes the right thing to say -- is nothing.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" - even when you are hurting more than ever, and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

38. Know that in time, you really will be happy again, regardless of your spouse’s choices. Know this, believe it, and let it show.

39. Do not believe that showing your spouse your pain and misery proves your love for them. It just makes it harder to be around you.

40. Don’t worry about how the past is viewed. What matters is this day and “from this day forward.” Learn to let go of the past and what you cannot control. It’s a lot to let go of, but it is SO freeing.

[watto14]

I have read and re read your posts and GG's, they are becoming my mantra, I have 39 years of patterning to break and i'm sure eventually I will get there, I have sandi's rules up where only I can see them and also read them daily.
the twins are generally ok, they are just three and have each other, though they know daddy has a new house, they know we love them, they do get distressed when it's time to come home to my place, I think because they see dad's place as a new thing, a novelty and also because dad is seen as more "fun"
I am worried about our eldest son, he is 7, incredibly intelligent and doesn't miss a thing, in all that is going on, he has not asked a single question. my mum tried talking to him last night, just some gentle questions while they were palying and he got quite distressed and told her he didn't want to talk about it. I don't want to push him, but I want him to understand that its ok to be confused, I am seeing my therapist next week and i'm going to ask her if she can recommend someone for him to talk to.
It breaks my heart that they have to go through this. and I do my utmost to wait until they are not here or are in bed before I fall apart or need to cry, I never put their dad down, and I tell them all the time that we both love them to the moon and back.

I am really hoping my db and dr books arrive this week, I also ordered the 5 love languages, I am an avid reader so these will dog eared in no time I'm sure.

I know I sound completely defeated, most days I'm ok, but I get a flash of 'how did I get here'

I need a plan of attack, I feel I'm floating, I like to be organised by nature, and I write list so I can cross off what I've achieved. should I be doing that with db/dr? I wish I could afford one of the coaches but it really is feasible for me right now.

[pilot]

You will be fine watto. The people on this forum are a great alternative to a DB coach. Keep posting your situation and those who have already walked in your shoes will chime in with great advice as well as help steer you away from mistakes you have or are about to make.

Best of luck to you!

[25yearsmlc]

I have read and re read your posts and GG's, they are becoming my mantra, I have 39 years of patterning to break and i'm sure eventually I will get there, I have sandi's rules up where only I can see them and also read them daily.

I'm glad they're helping you.
It's not so much you have to relearn how to live your whole life, but a specific thought pattern that doesn't serve you well at all, needs readjusting.

I think if you came to believe, in your heart of hearts, that you are a lovable unique woman with a lot to offer someone, that you do DESERVE To be loved and respected, that you really LIKE yourself, those beliefs tend to solve a lot of our problems. People treat you the way you allow yourself to be treated and if you have a lot of self confidence and self respect, it'll show...and it affects how others treat us OR they are no longer in our lives...because

We begin to radiate an inner peace and contentment, we become more loving, less averse to risk b/c hey, we don't have anything to lose by giving out love, b/c we KNOW we will be alright b/c we know we are loved and that we are not alone (regardless of whether a specific person reciprocates)---...so if you can work on your self esteem, a lot of other things fall into place.

Also, I do appreciate how much you seem to own your role in your h's choices, I really do. But try not to go too far. He cheated, twice. I think after the first time it happened, regardless of how it happened, he felt terrible about hurting you--but then he ought to have warned you that he was feeling tempted again...or that your behaviors were triggering a lot of distance between you two. Did you both get any counseling after the A, or do anything different than before?

That's key. If you don't get new tools for handling new problems, they tend to wear us out.

Did you have an inkling that there was a disconnect, but then you ignored it, or did you feel out of control or what?

I say that b/c you mention having anxiety and some strong emotional issues before the affairs, and so you seem to be saying you either prompted them, AND OR you sensed them coming...and or, you let it become a self fulfilling prophecy --

b/c maybe down deep you don't really truly believe you deserve to be loved or that you will be...so you created a scenario in which your h fooled around to get his "love tank" refilled (a term from the Five Love Languages book)...

I'm asking if you pushed him into the arms of OW on purpose? Not saying you did, but I am asking.

AND I missed your answer about why the first m ended and what you learned from that.

Is your ex h involved in your older kids lives much? Are they close?

the twins are generally ok, they are just three and have each other, though they know daddy has a new house, they know we love them, they do get distressed when it's time to come home to my place, I think because they see dad's place as a new thing, a novelty and also because dad is seen as more "fun"

there's a lot to be said for the^^ fun novelty. But make sure you are not moping around them and having them associate you with being needy of them, b/c that's a lot for 3 y/o's to handle. But it happens a lot around here. The kids become the substitute partner to meet the emotional needs of the single parent...and that's not fair to the kids OR the parent. I leaned on my older kids more than I care to admit.

Are you seeing a counselor for you? Most insurance pays for it and if not, there are sliding scales.


I am worried about our eldest son, he is 7, incredibly intelligent and doesn't miss a thing, in all that is going on, he has not asked a single question. my mum tried talking to him last night, just some gentle questions while they were palying and he got quite distressed and told her he didn't want to talk about it.

I'd follow his cue then. He's fearful of rocking the boat perhaps...does he recall the first m ending? At least he knows there is someone willing to listen if he decides to speak. Can you reassure him of anything specific, like a trip or school or something that won't be changing and that he can really truly rely on? That's something my IC suggested I do for my kids. They were fearful of moving again and seemed to feel a lot better when we assured them that we were NOT moving in the near future (at least 1-2 years)

I don't want to push him, but I want him to understand that its ok to be confused, I am seeing my therapist next week and i'm going to ask her if she can recommend someone for him to talk to.


well you answered my question about seeing a T, so good for you! And it sounds like a plan for your son too. Good job.

Hey, can you do that exercise in which you imagine for just 5 minutes, what your life would be like if your h had passed away and then some time passed, and your new life were to find you happy...MEANING, the point of this is NOT to mourn your h, but to imagine that he's gone but NOT that he rejected you...but just that he's really passed on and that you've grieved...and now you are healed --b/c you would NOT lay in the fetal position sobbing, forever, right?

You'd pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get a grip and care for your kids and make a new life for yourself, RIGHT? "


Okay so, imagine that life...your h is gone, but you are happy...

what is it that you are doing? Any classes? Volunteering? Where are you working or are you working? are you learning that new language or ethnic cooking class, or did you change careers or begin to travel more? What is going on in your new, happy life?

DETAILS PLEASE...for 5 minutes flesh out this day dream...really think about what you'd do if you were free of him and not depressed about it. What would you be showing your children about moving forward and handling a setback, (b/c all of your kids will face their own setbacks, their own broken hearts and betrayals, each of them...and they'll recall how YOU handled yours...) So flesh it out...he's gone, but you are happy...

and now, see what of those^^ things and experiences, you can do, NOW. And begin.


It breaks my heart that they have to go through this. and I do my utmost to wait until they are not here or are in bed before I fall apart or need to cry, I never put their dad down, and I tell them all the time that we both love them to the moon and back.

That's great! Good for you. Keep it up. Be ready for them to ask the hard questions and see what your T suggests as an answer, but also be ready to say you don't know the answer if you don't....

I am really hoping my db and dr books arrive this week, I also ordered the 5 love languages, I am an avid reader so these will dog eared in no time I'm sure.

I know I sound completely defeated, most days I'm ok, but I get a flash of 'how did I get here'

I need a plan of attack, I feel I'm floating, I like to be organised by nature, and I write list so I can cross off what I've achieved. should I be doing that with db/dr? I wish I could afford one of the coaches but it really is feasible for me right now.

Here's a list of things you CAN do and things not to do , on top of the list of "rules"...

1) LOSE the anger (at least in front of your h) b/c even if it's justified, it does NOT help you or the situation. It'll fuel his justification for leaving ("she is so needy/guilting me", etc)...

2) applaud loudly for the 1% of positives he does (I KNOW that is hard to do...like Mother Teresa hard, but it really does help.) With your h, if he tends to feel shame and then flees the situation rather than facing it, the positive feedback may help him see that you COULD get past the affair, and NOT throw it in his face or hold it over his head again, like last time.

3) Keep the Road Home, Paved & Smooth...it'll be hard enough for him to want to come back if he feels that the sword of Damacles was over his head the past 5 years, and now it's about to swing down again.

Do you know what I mean by this??^^^

4) Contrast the negative images he has of you, with new different POSITIVES so that he comes to believe that you CAN CHANGE and thus, that the Marriage can change.

5) Contrast the life he's creating on his own, (without obsessing about what that looks like), with a warm LOVING fun home, that he could be more a part of....or that he might lose...

B/c no WAS returns to a marriage they left....unless they believe that

the marriage can be better/different than before.

It's your job to show him that it can be.

But part of that will come from him fearing really losing you ---b/c the risk you face in paving the road home too smoothly,

is that he'll be a cake eater who cheats and then "takes YOU back"....rather than the reverse. You want to be a couple that goes thru an ordeal, and confronts a painful situation and really truly forgives each other. (he has to forgive you for things too, but I think you know that).

THAT could be the legacy of redemption and forgiveness and love you can leave your children...(but you have to let your h redeem himself & he has to do the work for that)--

or you can make the saddest choice of all, which is to stay married and be miserable...

or divorce and be miserable...

So, CHOOSE to be happy, regardless of what your h does.

5) and finally, turn this over to God (or the universe) and release your h to his "task"...

and then, when you KNOW you have dug deep to do the personal work you needed to do (we all needed to do and still continue b/c we are all works in progress)

and when you know you've become your best self, then walk in peace with your head held high.

You did your best and that's all anyone can do.

Keep on keeping on.

[watto14]

thank you again 25, your words are healing, and it's fantastic to have someone who has been there and understands, firstly today was horrific, overtired, emotional(h bday tomorrow) kids also tired and we fed our emotions on each, by the time I rang h tonight for the boys to say goodnight, I was too emotionally overwrought, I should have let him talk to the boys and then said we'd see him tomorrow for his bday, but I didn't, I told him I was disappointed that he hadn't rung them this morning when he promised he would, I was angry when I said that he had to tell his mother that I wouldn't be going for the family dinner tomorrow night to celebrate his birthday, and overly defensive when he said he would be happy if I was there or I wasn't there, it was my choice. I was depressed when he said he went out last night, couldn't remember what happened or what time he got home.
and in all of that, I forgot to praise him for washing all the kids sheets etc at his house, and to be gracious that he wanted to see the boys and myself before he goes to work in the morning.

all three boys are current h's, I never had children(thank god) with my ex h.

the marriage to my ex h was over before it even began, we got together when we were 19, it was very exciting, he was into skateboarding, drinking, partying, all the things that are 'cool' when your 19, but at 29, these things aren't so fun anymore.
he became a binge drinker, still smoking pot on a daily basis, and other hard drugs on the weekend, life was unpredictable to the point I would be afraid to go out with him because he always got into fights. he was never physically abusive towards me in a true sense, but many violent actions around me, such as putting a compound crossbow through a window right pasrt my head.

after two years of marriage, and my every attempt to get him to go to c with me or a drug program, both of which he refused, I gave up, I wanted more, and I didn't want to bring children into such a turbulent relationship.

I met current h within three days of leaving first h, hindsight is wonderful, but I cant change the past in that aspect, and if I have to be honest, I don't think I would.

if I imagine that h has passed away, I see that I would stay in this town, for at least a while, the boys family are here, and they would need the stability and support as I would. I would stay home more, but have more friends over, I would do more weekend trips to visit friends and family that live away from here. I would feel free to not have the expectation that I had to meet someone else. I would let the boys hair grow wild, I would buy a cat for each of them. I would make sure I didn't work on Saturdays anymore so they do what sport they wanted, I would read more, watch really bad movies, I would make more cards, I would keep myself busy, but allow myself time breathe, I would tell my boys how much they are loved and how proud their dad was of them, and they are amazing.

the first time h cheated, I had the gut feeling something wasn't right, I think I chose to ignore it for a while, it was I think predominantly ea, he, got his love tank filled, she told him what he needed to hear, do I think I had large part in that one, in a way, yes, I was so wrapped up in me and my issues, I pushed him away.

I'm beginning to see with him, that he want to be the protector, the provider, not that he wants someone who falls apart, like I did, but someone who needs him, he even re iterated this the other dsy, when he said he still wanted to protect me, though its going to be different now, then got upset, I felt, and had to ask me 'don't you want me to protect you anymore?'

second a, I don't know, was a combination of my relentless anger/neediness/kids etc, I cant answer that because we have never really talked about it, I asked why, he said he didn't know, and after the heartache of the first time, I didn't want to know the details, I just wanted to know it was over, he said/says yes, but again, the gut says there's something going with someone.

its not a deal breaker for me anymore, a lot of his behaviours to me, at the moment, feel mlc, especially after reading some of the posts on here.
this is not the same person I knew, but id like the chance to get to know the new one, but I also know that whatever hes going through right now,I have to let him do.

sorry for epic post

[watto14]

today was a pretty good day, for all my fatigue(three boys sleeping with me at one point-so not much sleeping going on!)
I sent an inbox msg to h at midnight last nigh to say happy bday, and we had a light chat, confirmed we would be there this morning to wish him happy bday and give his presents.
we got there, he loved his gifts from the boys , I opted to get him a really nice framed picture of him with the boys and movie tickets for him and eldest son to see transformers 4 together. I wanted to give h something but not spend money or look like was trying to win affections, I made one of those 'survival kits', with the little poem "a marble for when you lose yours, an eraser to erase all the little mistakes. a balloon to help blow out all the hot air" etc, he said he loved it so I was happy. it was just something lighthearted to acknowledge his day.

I asked if he still wanted to have lunch with the boys and myself, since we had seen him that morning and that he would be having dinner with the boys at his mothers, he said he was still happy to do it, and yay for me, I didn't do my usual "are you sure, you don't have to" etc

so we had a quick lunch, I bought the boys home and that was that until h rang and said he was having a couple of drinks with some guys from work and could I drop the boys off at his mums, I got a little annoyed, he probably heard it, but I did it anyway.
then I had to pick them up after dinner, and I picked a small fight, I felt niggly, a little bit used, and I let it show.
but after I got home, I texted to say sorry, hoped he a good day and to enjoy the rest of his night, he responded saying he would help out if he can, and thanks for his presents, I simply responded with our pleasure(not just mine)

deep breaths today, I just keep telling myself its all going to be ok.

[Old Dog]

Well done watto. I'm glad to hear about your good day. Keep it up :-)

[watto14]

Today has been interesting so far, H rang 5 his morning, to ask 8 I could watch the boys tomorrow, it's his 4 days with the boys, and he said he would pay half my rent?? Then he said he'd been to a couple of the real estate agents to find cheaper house for the boys and I to move into.
I'm not sure how to feel about this, also he is organizing to pay out all the utilities in his name, so when they get transferred to my name there will nothing owing. Is this him feeling guilty, appeasing his leaving? Or because he cares?? I know, mind reading, but any input would be appreciated

[watto14]

so 2104 is so far not really my year, I just received a notice to vacate from my landlord, reason sited that they want to move in, however, I think it has more to do with the fact that another real estate agent rang them to say I had looked at a property, I wasn't planning on moving, just wanted to start looking, to see if there was anything cheaper. then h rings and says hes been to couple of the estate agents to look for houses for me, its just weird, these are things I can do for myself, and yet I feel like its been taken out of my hands, and I don't know why.
just when I think ,yep I'm beginning to get a handle on all this, spanners turn up in the works....what next??