First post, completely lost

[watto14]

I'm still reeling as to what happened last night, I've had little sleep and in an hour I have to go to h house to pick up our boys to take them to daycare. I am completely lost and at this point I feel I have no where to turn, I can't even move form this town, one because the boys need the stability and two, this s has completely ruind me financially, my rent is a week behind I need to but product to work and I don't even have that, I just can't see a single positive today and usually I can. I don't know what the purpose of this journey is, I just feel broken

[Old Dog]

Sorry to hear that watto: everyone gets setbacks. I know it's no use saying try not to let it get you down, but can you do something else to take your mind off it until you're more able to handle it? Have you got anyone local to to unload on? Or if listening to Oli Doyle worked before, try it again.

[GoatGal]

It's OK watto, it happens to most of us.

Only an incredibly well-prepared and less emotionally invested person could have handled that situation flawlessly.

And that's what you must work towards being right now.

No single interaction will make or break this.

It is incredibly painful to hear that from her, then the dismissal from him.

Try now to calm yourself, deep breaths.... remember, you can do this.
Don't get ahead of yourself with all the things this *might* mean, like moving or D.
You don't know those are going to happen.

You're just afraid. We all are in those situations.
"What IF???" is not the question to be asking yourself right now.

"What do I know for sure, who can I count on, what are my strengths?"

Those are the questions that matter now.

Make a list of your biggest fears about this right now, then find possible solutions.
Talk yourself down like you were talking to your best friend.

Need money for rent? What are your options? Even the crazy ones.
YOU get to control how you handle your end, not him.


So, now he knows you know, or at least suspect. Is that a deal-breaker for you?

Most of us have been there too. It stinks, but trying to get your mind on positive things does help. I know it's so painful on so many levels.

Sending you a hug. ((((watto)))))))

You're gonna be OK.

---GG

PS: I've done a LOT worse and H still speaks to me. He hasn't "left" yet!

[watto14]

Thank you for listening both of you, I am in tears right now, I have my eldest boy with me as it's school holidays, and the little ones are at daycare, it was hard to see h this morning and he acts like like nothing was said and nothing has happened, he did his usual I'll ttalk to you later, and I ccouldn't even muster up a no worries.
I keep thinking about some of the things he said, that all he ever wanted to do was protect me so I wouldn't get hurt, and t that he couldn't protect me form him and the way he hurt me, I think referring to his past a. Then he said don't you want me to protect you anymore, I said of course, then he said it's just going to be different, I'm expected tto let him go and live his own life, but I feel like I'm not able to do the same because he still wants to be my hero? I don't know where to turn, every time I try to detach and move forward something happens....what do with all of this?

[Old Dog]

OK, last post for today.

Watto go on YouTube and find I Am Woman by Helen Reddy. Make sure you get the one with lyrics, or listen attentively.

I like the hug thing, here's another. ((((watto))))

[25yearsmlc]

Thank you for listening both of you, I am in tears right now, I have my eldest boy with me as it's school holidays, and the little ones are at daycare,

Wow...You had a tough night with the "bomb drop" from a 3rd party. I often wonder what propels a person to dump that rumor into your lap. For one thing, it may not even be true, in which case some vicious gossip just knifed you in the stomach. And if she really did know it was true, who is to say you and he are both working on that together and don't need people outside the marriage commenting on it?

It'd be different if she were your friend AND if she knew it was true...she probably gave it a minutes thought...I cannot predict what your h thinks about it or what his reaction "should be" if it is true or not. But in any event, I think GoatGirl asked you the relevant question which is, "if there is OW< is that necessarily a deal breaker for you?


B/c if it is not, then this really cannot take any more space in your head/heart, than it already has taken.

We know your anxiety can be destructive but at some level I think you are resisting that concept. It's as if you think, secretly or down deep, that worrying somehow pre-empts a problem, by anticipating it, you avoid it...but it's really the opposite. Worrying has never solved a problem, it has caused then, and it ruins the present TODAY...

Your time with your children needs to be time in which you are fully present. That was very hard for me but it is why, finally, I released my h to his "task/mission"--letting go-- and thus, I was better able to be really "present" for my children when they needed me the most.

Please consider that^^...and compartmentalize so you can function at work and at home and so you can "fake it til you make it" better in front of your h.

Please watch those youtube videos of the TED talks or conferences...Shawn Achor and Amy Cuddy have 2 talks about 20 min each, on the power of positive thinking and it's REAL data that shows how we can create inner thinking that is happier and more productive and some other "gimmicks" that really work. They have good empirical research backing them up too, and it's an easy listen.

I think it'll help you worry a bit less, b/c that's a quality of life issue for you, and b/c it has caused problems in your life AND it does not help your marriage AND finally, most importantly, b/c your children learn from you...so make sure you are modeling behavior you'd want from them, in similar circumstances...

Make sense?


it was hard to see h this morning and he acts like like nothing was said and nothing has happened, he did his usual I'll ttalk to you later, and I ccouldn't even muster up a no worries.

When you think about it, this^^ is probably better for all concerned, than him making a scene or angrily debating OR just playing the victim...and it gives you a fresh start on PMA (Pos mental attitude) and some more GAL and 180s.

What GAL are you doing soon? Just curious. Also, I dont' know how religious you are but if possible, maybe attending a new church or just talking to a priest or pastor, might help. We are not really exposed to the concept of forgiveness in our society much. Too bad, b/c it's a big ingredient to marital success AND to our own self esteem.

If we cannot let go of our own errors, it makes it much harder to let go of other people's mistakes and you know what else?

When we cannot forgive ourselves and we just keep the negative thoughts looping around our brain (not taking the 'exit ramp'), we have a much harder time believing our spouse could ever forgive us.

And so then we bemoan our mistakes even more! Vicious cycle that WE must break.


I keep thinking about some of the things he said, that all he ever wanted to do was protect me so I wouldn't get hurt, and t that he couldn't protect me form him and the way he hurt me, I think referring to his past a.


Not sure how useful this commentary is^^or if I even understand it...but as you say, you are not sure what he's referring to, let alone the fact that it was said in the past ("past" being any comment made more than a week ago) and even if true then, might not be true now.

Feelings are evolving rapidly in these situations, not many of them are lasting, and it's just NOT helpful to you, to keep the "review & guess" process, going.

What would it change in your behavior?

Won't you still need to GAL and do 180s? And won't you still need to stop the anxiety merry go round?
IF you are asking us for permission to quit, I'd say you are premature. That's not a judgement, just my perspective.


Then he said don't you want me to protect you anymore, I said of course, then he said it's just going to be different,

Does he mean protect you from the truth? IF so, is that b/c he fears you cannot handle the truth? Is there any validity to his belief?

Maybe he needs to see a real 180 for you, like seeing a strong independent woman who CAN protect herself and children, thank you very much, and who will do more than merely "survive" without a h.


I'm expected tto let him go and live his own life,

It's not an expectation; it's a reality. He DOES get to live his own life, and you get to live yours. That's what happens when a spouse leaves us; it forces us to cope with this reality. BUT also realize--- What choice do you really have?

I mean, you can keep trying to control him, but that fails AND pushes him away more...

The more you challenge his choices, the more you force him to defend those choices instead of giving him the space to solve them himself. Back off...

And if you are using guilt or your anguish, you are merely confirming and validating his reasons for leaving with the negative images he has, whereas you need to Contrast those negative images of you, with new positive ones.


but I feel like I'm not able to do the same because he still wants to be my hero? I


First, you ARE able to live your own life. That is what the GAL is for, and the 180s will aid you in becoming a woman only a fool would leave, to actualize yourself in line with your views of what a great wife is like.

As for your guess about how he wants to be viewed (which is a whole lot of guesswork with very little pay off, imo...)

maybe maybe he wants to be seen as noble, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Perhaps it's better to give him something to live UP to, rather than the opposite.
OR maybe he withholds truths that would hurt you, and calls that protecting you.

For instance, sometimes spouses who have affairs tell themselves they "had to deceive" the LBS b/c they, the noble cheaters, do not want to hurt the LBS...as if their choice to have the A anyhow, but to lie about it, makes them noble.

It's easier for THEM, and that's the main thing. But you also have to keep your chit together if he does admit something that hurts you, or he will justify keeping the truth hidden.

To complicate matters, you cannot have "Expectations" of him b/c you are separated now, and that is simply reality. You don't want to structure this situation in a way that sets him up for failure, and you up for more heartache.

The sooner you detach, the sooner you WILL feel better.


don't know where to turn, every time I try to detach and move forward something happens....what do with all of this?

This sukks^^ and I know it does...so I can only suggest what helped me and what I hear helped others.

I suggest you turn it over to God. Or turn it over to the "universe," or whatever or whomever your concept of a loving creator is...

and if that is not something authentic for you, then find some mantras and beliefs that you hold dear, that comfort & inspire you, and let them be heard in your head and by your ears as you SAY THEM...and do seek out some individual counseling. I think nearly all of us did at some point in this journey.

DB coaches are Godsends, but you'll still have to implement their suggestions; you'll still have to DO the work, not just worry about it. Remember...

Consistent changes + sufficient time = changes he can believe in.

He won't return to the marriage he left,

unless he believes the marriage --

can be different/better than before.

How would he believe that, if all he sees is the same fear based behaviors?

Go watch those TED Videos and come up with your own "pep" talk and remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint.

IF your h is to learn to be more honest and you are to learn to handle that AND you both are to learn how to stay faithful and calmly loving, well, that is a lot of work. But here in DB land, (aka "real life"), we know ALL marriages take work. And the work itself is rewarding, it's not digging a ditch in the swamps.

But for now, take it a day at a time. That simple concept is going to be hard for you b/c it's the opposite of your habit -- of futurizing with all the negative worries, seen as "likely" in your brain. Incidentally, it can be hard to be around someone like that b/c a chronic worrier needs a ton of frequent reassurances and that can be draining.

Takes one to know one. I realized at that workshop I mentioned earlier, ("EE") that I had needlessly worried or obsessed, about an hour of every day of my life, on average.

That added up to 2 YEARS of my waking life hours, I was living in the negative...letting fear control me and infect my joy...instead of being fully present for my children, my work--which could be very rewarding but instead I'd just expect the other shoe to drop/ It was almost as if I could not "ADMIT" i was happy or something bad would then happen...or maybe deep down I didn't believe I deserve it.

What a neurotic & self defeating view I had!!! But once I faced it, it was hard to keep holding onto it. I mean it was embarrassing to see it out there in writing, with no rational reason to keep that view, and every reason to discard it...and for the most part, I have. What a gift!

That^^ is a quality of life improvement. I'm telling you-- if you do the work on your life that it deserves, that YOU deserve, there will be a huge payoff, regardless of what your h does, etc.

This tough lonely time WILL pass. Things will get better...and so will you. But truly, it really is ALL up to you.

Not him...it's up to you how long this takes. Do you get this^^?

Heres an exercise that helped me. 1) Think of your life as if it were a novel.

Now, who wrote the chapter you are now reading? How is this chapter feeling?

How about you writing the next chapter and the next, and telling us how YOU want these next chapters to go?

Be the author of your life. Take charge of your life, and your own happiness. This does get easier and it does get better.

[watto14]

GG- thank you for your reply, I have wrestled with the concept of an oa for a long time, and after last night, and lack of sleep, i'm back to the same point I was before, that no, an ow is not a deal breaker for me, I believe( and I am making an assumption based on what I know of my h) that he thinks it is, and going on my past responses, I can understand that.
I think h 'turned his feelings off' after the first a and I found out, he was truly devastated that he had hurt me, and I don't think hes ever forgiven himself, and I didn't either.
my biggest fears right now? that my family will not be intact, that I wont be able to support my boys the way they deserve, that the best man that I have ever known will not be my h anymore
fear and anxiety are massive factors, that's very true and I'm glad that I'm not the only one here to experience them ,knowing I'm not alone in all of this is truly beautiful and I am thankful to each one of you is taking the time to listen and support.
25 mlc, thank you for all of your words, support and advice, I don't the quote thing works, so i'll just wing it, firstly I will look up those ted videos, I think they are exactly what I need right now, the negative voices need to be quelled.
I need to stop doubting myself, I know I am worthy of 'great love' and I know that I am the very best mum I can be at this moment.
I am going to sit down tonight and write my next chapter, this one wasn't written by me, and that doesn't sit well with me.
I don't think h meant to protect me from the truth, I think he means to look after me, to make sure that I don't get hurt, mmm maybe part of that IS protecting from the truth. I do want to be that person who is strong, and I also want to be held sometimes and told everything will be ok.
I have written on paper the quote "consistant changes+suffcient time= changes he can believe in" I think is spot on, I need to show him that the changes I am making, and I have been, are permanent for me.
I am not a religious person per se, however, I have been looking at my own spiritualty a lot more lately, and I think that soon, I don't know that I can right now, I will turn this over to the universe. there is a sense, somewhere inside me, that this will all work out, I don't know how long it will take, but I am in for the long haul, I'm finding the journey there really tough.
the one thing that I have learned in all of this is that I am tenacious, that I am stronger than what I think I am, and I'm not a quitter, so I need to stop quitting on myself.
i'm still unsure of my 180's, am I doing a reverse of everything I've done in the past? do I write them down, the books probably explain it, but they still haven't arrived.
I'm slowly GAL, I start a class next week, I'm headed back to the gym next week also, I'm going to the movies with a new friend on sat night.
thank you all again for being a large part of my support network
xoxo

[Old Dog]

Good post 25yearsmic. I wrote down your equation too. I've got all the acronyms and some quotes I like open in a sticky note alongside my browser window.

Watto, you'll get there. People on here say you need to start with baby steps and it looks like that's what you're doing.

To do the quote thing, hit the quote button instead of typing into the quick reply box at the bottom.

[GoatGal]

25yrs and all,

Can you clarify which TED videos you're referring to?

Thanks!

And watto, you listed some fears up there ^^^.

Family will not be intact.
You don't know this for sure at this point. Try to not dwell on it. Focus on strengthening your relationship with your boys as you would as a single mom. For now.

Will not be able to support boys the way they deserve.
Again, this is not written in stone. Is there a difference between an ideal lifestyle and a practical one? How much will they really suffer if they need to make sacrifices? Is it really about the "stuff"? Equally important is having a mom who is strong, healthy, stable, and helps them feel protected and cherished.
(I don't have kids, but I was one, once...)


The Best Man You've Ever Known will not be your H any more.
Well, I hate to point this out but right now he's hardly marriage material!
Do you want THIS MAN as your husband the way he's acting?
Or do you grieve the loss of the man you (thought) you had?

Is he REALLY the best man you've ever known? Or are you worried that you'll never find anyone as good, or one as good who wants you?

Trust me, there are TONS of great guys out there, if you H chooses to no longer be one of them!

My point is--these are fears and negative thoughts that are running around in your head. But that's all they are: FEARS and THOUGHTS.

They create negative emotions, but they CAN'T HURT YOU.

So dwelling on all this is what's hurting you, and that's why you need to find a way to stop.

It's really hard, really painful, but it can be done.

You can read my thread/posts for some things which have worked for me.

The key is: STOP THE THOUGHT
CHANGE THE THOUGHT to something positive/empowering
Emotions will follow.

Wash, rinse and repeat.

I feel for you, watto.

Reality Bites!

(And WE bite back! )


--GG

[25yearsmlc]

25yrs and all,

Can you clarify which TED videos you're referring to?

Thanks!

Sure can...
Amy Cuddy's talk at the TED Conference "Fake it til You Become it" is on youtube She has several videos but that's the specific one I was referring to. Of course, there are others that could also help.

Shawn Achor has several also, but the one I was referring to is about 20 min and it called "Positive Psychology" and both of these talks were at the 2012 TED Conferences...and again, both of these speakers have several talks that are relevant and pieces of their talks on youtube.

The whole speech by Shawn, for instance, is maybe 22 min but there are several pieces of it around. But If you can, get his whole talk b/c it flows nicely into usable conclusions, and it's not that long. Same for Amy Cuddy's talk, and btw, she also discusses how changes in our posture changes what we put out to the world AND how WE see ourselves.

My realtor told me once that she "assumes the power position" before every sales presentation.

And watto, you listed some fears up there ^^^.

Family will not be intact.
You don't know this for sure at this point. Try to not dwell on it. Focus on strengthening your relationship with your boys as you would as a single mom. For now.

TRUE^^^^.
Does this mean that military families are not intact, b/c a spouse lives elsewhere? OR if a parent is killed, does the whole family wither and die?

And what about all the divorced families in the world who are NOT all miserable? You have to teach your kids that NOT having their dad around 24/7 is not guaranteed misery.

You CAN create happy memories for them, without their dad. By now that has already happened I'm sure. I took my kids on a short ski trip right after h returned to work the day of after Christmas, and that showed us all we could drive into the mountains, change a tire in a snowstorm and still find the cabin we had rented. You show them that they are going to be fine with or without h around. Yes it'll hurt, no question. But it IS survivable.

Also,
don't forget the other families around, going thru the same or similar things I would not overlook that. This can be done.
''

Will not be able to support boys the way they deserve.
''

Again, this is not written in stone. Is there a difference between an ideal lifestyle and a practical one? How much will they really suffer if they need to make sacrifices? Is it really about the "stuff"? Equally important is having a mom who is strong, healthy, stable, and helps them feel protected and cherished.
(I don't have kids, but I was one, once...)


IF/WHEN You tell the kids, stress to them what will NOT change in their lives. If they must move, will they still be in the same neighborhood AND OR school district? If so, tell them all that asap.

Our kids biggest fear, which I asked both d's at the time (son was at college), was moving again. I knew then that we would not likely move til d1 finished high school and that mattered a lot to her. Don't borrow trouble from tomorrow b/c you are hurting 'your todays" with the futurizing. This is a good example of letting your fears take over. Stop that.

The kids need to see you OWN your life and believe in it.


The Best Man You've Ever Known will not be your H any more.
Well, I hate to point this out but right now he's hardly marriage material!
Do you want THIS MAN as your husband the way he's acting?
Or do you grieve the loss of the man you (thought) you had?

Is he REALLY the best man you've ever known? Or are you worried that you'll never find anyone as good, or one as good who wants you?

My guess is there is a combination of these ^^ factors in your heart.

I think you FEAR that deep down, you are not lovable, and that is why the man who really "gets you", does not love you.

You worry that if you are such a great catch, how can he leave you all?

I understand this^^ but I'm here to say, not all of this is about you. AND, to be sure, & That is where the past depression and fears of abandonment have played a role. The negative spin will insert itself if you let it. Don't. Put a stop sign in your mind when you start swirling like a negative vortex. Take the "exit ramp" to positive thinking and DO see those youtube presentations on this positivey thinking powers to change etc.

Trust me, there are TONS of great guys out there, if you H chooses to no longer be one of them!

My point is--these are fears and negative thoughts that are running around in your head. But that's all they are: FEARS and THOUGHTS.

They create negative emotions, but they CAN'T HURT YOU.

So dwelling on all this is what's hurting you, and that's why you need to find a way to stop.

It's really hard, really painful, but it can be done.

You can read my thread/posts for some things which have worked for me.

The key is: STOP THE THOUGHT
CHANGE THE THOUGHT to something positive/empowering
Emotions will follow.

Wash, rinse and repeat.

exactly

I feel for you, watto.

Reality Bites!

(And WE bite back! )


--GG

we're all rooting for you!!